Shadydan
Well-Known Member
- Jul 7, 2012
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Ffs What difference does that make to your initial point lol?
4-2-3-1 vs 5-2-3
- Thread starter JollyHappy
- Start date
Ffs What difference does that make to your initial point lol?
werty
Well-Known Member
- Aug 8, 2005
- 25,098
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That we've played better at home playing 4231 against teams who've parked the bus than we have playing 5311.
Everlasting Seconds
Well-Known Member
- Jan 9, 2014
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Hate 4231, always have and always will. It's a crap, inferior formation. Vs. Southampton we actually played some weird 2-4-2-2 thing that I've never seen before. Apparently, neither have Southampton.
LexingtonSpurs
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- Aug 27, 2013
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Dier is one of Poch's undroppables.
LexingtonSpurs
Well-Known Member
- Aug 27, 2013
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Its also how you start a match, not necessarily finish the match.
I think Poch will prefer to bring Son (or Dele) and Lamela off the bench if we are chasing a goal, than to start Son and only have Lamela to bring on.
And, maybe competition between Son and Dele and also Eriksen and Lamala would be good for everyone.
SpursAddict
winners never quit and quitters never win
- Mar 27, 2012
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This is a real tough one, both have pros and cons.
A back 3 of Sanchez, Toby, and Jan, add a fit Wanyama in front of them and I think any team would find it hard to break us down. That defensive unit is truly one of the best in the land, if not in Europe and would definitely be very hard to break down.
I honestly think it's down to whoever we're playing against. Against teams who sit deep as we've seen earlier in the season at Wembley, we won't need that extra defender and could afford to use an offensive player instead.
I think it should be a back 4 against teams who are hard to break down and sit deep, and a back 3 against better teams who could pose a greater attacking threat.
No doubt that being able to play both systems gives us an advantage and makes us more unpredictable.
A back 3 of Sanchez, Toby, and Jan, add a fit Wanyama in front of them and I think any team would find it hard to break us down. That defensive unit is truly one of the best in the land, if not in Europe and would definitely be very hard to break down.
I honestly think it's down to whoever we're playing against. Against teams who sit deep as we've seen earlier in the season at Wembley, we won't need that extra defender and could afford to use an offensive player instead.
I think it should be a back 4 against teams who are hard to break down and sit deep, and a back 3 against better teams who could pose a greater attacking threat.
No doubt that being able to play both systems gives us an advantage and makes us more unpredictable.
lukespurs7
Well-Known Member
- Feb 21, 2006
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This.
Everlasting Seconds
Well-Known Member
- Jan 9, 2014
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Problem with 4 attackers vs. compact defences is that the result of say 8 defenders and 4 attackers is that the final third gets crowded and there is no space left to make movements. We saw plenty of times under AVB and also quite a lot of times under Pochettino that the 4 attackers, when faced with a compact team, will struggle between themselves for space, and run in the way of one another, or simply stop moving around because the area is too crowded.
Adding to that no movements on the sides, because the 4 attackers won't/can't provide width and the smaller defence is too limited to do it. What we achieved with a back 3 and attacking 3 was freeing up space centrally in the attack so you don't have 4 players fighting for the same, narrow space, and you freed up WBs who actually could provide width in a way the AMs don't do. It boggles me that after all the good results we've had moving away from the inferior, crap system, that people still want it back.
Adding to that no movements on the sides, because the 4 attackers won't/can't provide width and the smaller defence is too limited to do it. What we achieved with a back 3 and attacking 3 was freeing up space centrally in the attack so you don't have 4 players fighting for the same, narrow space, and you freed up WBs who actually could provide width in a way the AMs don't do. It boggles me that after all the good results we've had moving away from the inferior, crap system, that people still want it back.
stevenqoz
Well-Known Member
- Apr 10, 2006
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We actually play 3 6 1....something Barcelona have also done occasionally as well. The '6' being a cauldron of movement and unpredictability. For quite a few years many on SC refused to believe that a formation with 3 at the back could be employed in the EPL. Poch has many tools in his bag and the formation not only changes game to game but even within particular matches. The squad is educated to know that they will play various positions involving numerous roles. Supporters believing that Poch should opt for this or that miss the point
spids
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- Jul 19, 2015
- 6,647
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For big away games against the likes of Real Madrid, Juventus, Man City, etc. I want us to play 3 CBs and have a DCM platform in midfield.
In Poch's first season he got the team pressing in a 4-2-3-1. That evolved two seasons ago when Dier started dropping from DCM in-between Toby and Jan. Last year Poch added the 3-4-3/3-5-2 to the team's play sheet. This year he's tweaked it again and we've seen 3-3-3-1 and a return more recently to a hybrid 4-2-3-1. The team can play in multiple ways, with a fluidity that is incredible. I'd quite like to see Llorente get a start with Kane, a couple of times its happened (away from home in the CL) we've looked impressive and Kane has looked even more dangerous, but I am sure Poch has his own ideas of how to evolve further. The main thing is we have one hell of a manager in place and he remains our most important asset!
Lloris
Alderweireld---Sanchez---Vertonghen
Aurier-------Wanyama---Dembele-------Rose
Eriksen---Dele
Kane
Against teams outside the top 6, and especially at home, I want to see a more attacking line up with one of the CBs and even a DCM sacrificed...Alderweireld---Sanchez---Vertonghen
Aurier-------Wanyama---Dembele-------Rose
Eriksen---Dele
Kane
Lloris
Trippier---Alderweireld---Vertonghen---Davies
Winks---Dembele
Dele---Eriksen---Son
Kane
The important thing is we have a squad, that when all are fit, allows us to have great flexibility and the ability to play multiple systems, whilst having strength in depth and allowing rotation. Trippier---Alderweireld---Vertonghen---Davies
Winks---Dembele
Dele---Eriksen---Son
Kane
In Poch's first season he got the team pressing in a 4-2-3-1. That evolved two seasons ago when Dier started dropping from DCM in-between Toby and Jan. Last year Poch added the 3-4-3/3-5-2 to the team's play sheet. This year he's tweaked it again and we've seen 3-3-3-1 and a return more recently to a hybrid 4-2-3-1. The team can play in multiple ways, with a fluidity that is incredible. I'd quite like to see Llorente get a start with Kane, a couple of times its happened (away from home in the CL) we've looked impressive and Kane has looked even more dangerous, but I am sure Poch has his own ideas of how to evolve further. The main thing is we have one hell of a manager in place and he remains our most important asset!
Colonel Dax
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- Jul 24, 2008
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Depends on the capabilities of the wing backs.
5-2-3 with Rose and Walker was great, as both were dynamic/ pacy and stretched opposing defences
5-2-3 with Davies and Trippier might work on the odd occasion but I think they lack the dynamism of the above
Hopefully Aurier can continue his development as him and Rose as wingbacks has potential.
5-2-3 with Rose and Walker was great, as both were dynamic/ pacy and stretched opposing defences
5-2-3 with Davies and Trippier might work on the odd occasion but I think they lack the dynamism of the above
Hopefully Aurier can continue his development as him and Rose as wingbacks has potential.
The Paxton Toad
New Member
- May 28, 2017
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Horses for courses - having Son up front gives us extra penetration against those teams that sit back, but leaves us more exposed against the rest of the top 6.
I think wanyama will make a big difference to the way Poch wants to play. It seems he really wants the single pivot which wanyama is ideal for. Will just be interesting when Toby is back if he reverts to 3 at back with a diamond infront which is a bit odd but seems to be the way he wants to go. I think we have the personal apart from the De Bruyne type player but I think eriksen could play that. I’d love to see team below Vs Everton
Lloris
Aurier Sanchez vertonghen Rose
Wanyama
Eriksen dele Lamela
Son Kane
So you basically have eriksen and Lamela dropping a bit deeper to help wanyama. Such a sexy team.
Lloris
Aurier Sanchez vertonghen Rose
Wanyama
Eriksen dele Lamela
Son Kane
So you basically have eriksen and Lamela dropping a bit deeper to help wanyama. Such a sexy team.
zoneD
Active Member
- Aug 9, 2014
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...this lineup would have worked against West Ham, but neither Lamela nor Eriksen provide any sort of defensive "help" and we would be so easily turned over in MF...with Dembele unfortunately fading, hopefully we can somehow find (and pay for) a "De Bruyne type player"...
COYS
I Don’t really see Everton as having a great attacking threat. What they have Sanchez vertonghen wanyama should be able to cope with. But also when you have players like eriksen Lamela in slightly deeper roles you’re more likely to keep the ball, much like city have best defence record because nobody can get the ball for long enough to threaten. Possibly dele in the slightly deeper role but it’s pretty interchangeable.
mil1lion
This is the place to be
- May 7, 2004
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4 at the back gives us more room for rotation which is particularly important around CL games. Vertonghen and Dier have played a lot this season. They will need to be rested with Wanyama back and when Toby returns.
We will of course mix it up and witch between formations. I'm not too fussed which formation we play but we don't need 4 of Toby, Vertonghen, Sanchez and Dier/Wanyama against teams that park the bus. So if we go 3 at the back we should not need a defensive midfielder. When we go 4 at the back the defensive midfielder will sit between the centre backs when we're camped in the opposition half anyway.
We will of course mix it up and witch between formations. I'm not too fussed which formation we play but we don't need 4 of Toby, Vertonghen, Sanchez and Dier/Wanyama against teams that park the bus. So if we go 3 at the back we should not need a defensive midfielder. When we go 4 at the back the defensive midfielder will sit between the centre backs when we're camped in the opposition half anyway.
tiger666
Large Member
- Jan 4, 2005
- 27,978
- 82,216
Nonsense. Two of the best pressers we have.
4-2-3-1 with Son, Eriksen and Dele is working well.
SpartanSpur
Well-Known Member
- Jan 27, 2011
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- 43,063
Having both formations available is very important IMO. Our excellent CL run was based on 3 at the back, I think it's still a go to for big games, I especially liked the 5-3-1-1 variant we toyed with a couple of times.
It's hard to argue against the merits of the 4-2-3-1 in recent weeks however so I'd still have that as the base formation. I just worry about not getting Sanchez enough game time in this case.
With Wanyama back, hopefully Toby soon too we have great depth for both formations in CB and DM. We can easily change between the two mid game with the squad we have.
It's hard to argue against the merits of the 4-2-3-1 in recent weeks however so I'd still have that as the base formation. I just worry about not getting Sanchez enough game time in this case.
With Wanyama back, hopefully Toby soon too we have great depth for both formations in CB and DM. We can easily change between the two mid game with the squad we have.
