5 of the top 10 fastest players are from Leicester

[C0YS]

Oh no! I'll surely be gutted if they're talking about us behind our backs!

It's a totally reasonable discussion to have. Nobody, or at least I think nobody is really saying, yeah Leicester are on drugs. But there are some anomalies around the physical attributes of their players so it's totally reasonable to at least talk about.

FYI they're running stats this year have been lower than they were towards the end of last season. I can't find the actual stats but they went from least distance covered for any prem league team the 2nd highest in April last year.

I hope they're not on anything, because that would just be shit for a number of reasons but it's allowed to be questioned.

What annomalies?

Okay they've got lucky with injuries, im not sure about the quick recovery times, but even if we agree they are quick, what othe physical abnormalities?

The reason why people are questioning Leicester is because people are bitter that a club which is not traditionally considered 'big' has had this sudden rise and now may win it. Some fans think that all the hard work, spending training, establishing ones position, slow development ect somehow makes them have more of a right to win it, so they naturally assume 'cheat'!

This may not be why you are asking these questions but this is how it reads for the vast majority of other fans, an frankly how it reads to me.

 

[Lilbaz]

Well seeing as he got caught it's reasonable to assume he'd been getting away with it until that point, unless your of the opinion that he's just a poor soul who used it once and got caught.

As for it having nothing to do with Leicester, I was merely pointing out that the last doper was caught by UEFA and not the PL, and I thought it was a common belief that UEFA has tougher tests. So, if Leicester are doing something untoward, there's no evidence the PL would ever catch them, they certainly didn't catch Sakho.

I'm of the opinion that we don't know the facts so cannot judge yet.

 

[Lilbaz]

I agree with the sentiment and we shouldn't be throwing around acquisitions but questions can be asked and at least discussed. Leicester have turned themselves from bottom of the league to top in a year with pretty much the same players and those same players look like they're not the same players any more. And not just mentally. With a lot of them physically. How have they done that?

Also, on the PL testing,

It's pretty crap compared to other sports. Certainly it wouldn't catch EPO. The PL relies a lot on good will at the moment when it comes to doping... Which yeah... Doesn't help matters.

I'm not accusing anyone, i'm just asking a question.

Yep sounds like something wenger would say.

 

[tttcowan]

I'm not accusing anyone, i'm just asking a question.

Yep sounds like something wenger would say.

Cool.

 

[tttcowan]

What annomalies?

Okay they've got lucky with injuries, im not sure about the quick recovery times, but even if we agree they are quick, what othe physical abnormalities?

The reason why people are questioning Leicester is because people are bitter that a club which is not traditionally considered 'big' has had this sudden rise and now may win it. Some fans think that all the hard work, spending training, establishing ones position, slow development ect somehow makes them have more of a right to win it, so they naturally assume 'cheat'!

This may not be why you are asking these questions but this is how it reads for the vast majority of other fans, an frankly how it reads to me.

It's in the post in the previous page.

 

[Lilbaz]

Cool.

Sorry mate but it all come across as petty and bitter. We should be above that.

 

[Hazardousman]

What annomalies?

Okay they've got lucky with injuries, im not sure about the quick recovery times, but even if we agree they are quick, what othe physical abnormalities?

The reason why people are questioning Leicester is because people are bitter that a club which is not traditionally considered 'big' has had this sudden rise and now may win it. Some fans think that all the hard work, spending training, establishing ones position, slow development ect somehow makes them have more of a right to win it, so they naturally assume 'cheat'!

This may not be why you are asking these questions but this is how it reads for the vast majority of other fans, an frankly how it reads to me.

And the reason people are accusing people of being bitter is because of this bullshit narrative that Leicester are the "underdog" and people would try and defend anything because they aren't one of the "big clubs" whilst they ignore the fact they are being investigated for financial doping and breaking FFP rules and are owned by a Thai Billionaire (recent ownership might I add.)

This is what it is, people seem to have taken Leicester on as their second team because they aren't one of the "traditional"" for example saying stuff like "If we don't win it then they deserve it, anybody but Arsenal and Man City"

And because of that level of bias and commitment it's apparent people don't want to even question if they could be possibly cheating, nobody from what I have seen has outright said they are, they are questioning it and it's a reasonable question to ask given their massive turnaround that is hardly ever seen in sport especially in team sport from players who are in the latter stages of their career and who have mostly had mediocre careers at best.

I think people need to stop throwing the word "bitter" at people for asking a reasonable question just because they believe the PL is some sacred institution that can do no wrong and would never have cheats (which in itself is beyond ridiculous to think cheating doesn't happen or corruption and fixing doesn't happen in one of the richest leagues in the world.)

I was saying I thought Leicester were cheatiing when we were sitting in fourth and I thought we had no chance at a title push, it doesn't add up, their improvement doesn't add up, sure it could be a freak occurance, it's not impossible to think that's the case, it's just when looking at it from a logical perspective it is improbable.

Does that make me bitter for thinking that? No. Because I would be thinking it if any other team did the same thing in such a short space of time with no logical reason, including ourselves.

 

[Disconosebleed]

And the reason people are accusing people of being bitter is because of this bullshit narrative that Leicester are the "underdog" and people would try and defend anything because they aren't one of the "big clubs" whilst they ignore the fact they are being investigated for financial doping and breaking FFP rules and are owned by a Thai Billionaire (recent ownership might I add.)

This is what it is, people seem to have taken Leicester on as their second team because they aren't one of the "traditional"" for example saying stuff like "If we don't win it then they deserve it, anybody but Arsenal and Man City"

And because of that level of bias and commitment it's apparent people don't want to even question if they could be possibly cheating, nobody from what I have seen has outright said they are, they are questioning it and it's a reasonable question to ask given their massive turnaround that is hardly ever seen in sport especially in team sport from players who are in the latter stages of their career and who have mostly had mediocre careers at best.

I think people need to stop throwing the word "bitter" at people for asking a reasonable question just because they believe the PL is some sacred institution that can do no wrong and would never have cheats (which in itself is beyond ridiculous to think cheating doesn't happen or corruption and fixing doesn't happen in one of the richest leagues in the world.)

I was saying I thought Leicester were cheatiing when we were sitting in fourth and I thought we had no chance at a title push, it doesn't add up, their improvement doesn't add up, sure it could be a freak occurance, it's not impossible to think that's the case, it's just when looking at it from a logical perspective it is improbable.

Does that make me bitter for thinking that? No. Because I would be thinking it if any other team did the same thing in such a short space of time with no logical reason, including ourselves.

People think you're bitter because you're casting doubt on their incredible achievements with literally zero evidence beyond the fact that they're doing better than expected.

 

[C0YS]

Anyway the point is the whole doping thing is centered on Leicester, because they are a 'small club' which have had things go their way. In the past clubs emerging out of nowhere to challenge for the league was a common occurrence, but since the invention of football in 1992 things have got increasingly harder. There are many things which could be considered irregular in football. I could easily accuse tottenham of running an inhuman amount. I could also make a case that is doping is not properly checked what would clubs have to lose by doping? Particularly bigger clubs like chelsea who are so set on winning? But again, if Leicester were doping, its most likely they would be doing it covertly, if leicester were doping its most likely leicester didn't introduce it to the PL.

Anyway people should be asking the PL, to crack down on doping and put serious pressure on it and irradiate it on a systematic level. They shouldn't be making accusations about other peoples cubs particularly at a time where that club is close to beating them for the league.

Doping accusations have always happened a lot in football, particularly when involving bitterness. For example when Liverpool won the champions league, it was a common conspiracy particularly or Milan fans that they were on drugs, and it is for that reason they seemed to go on for so long. As time continued the conspiracies became more and more intricate and more and more divorced from reality. The conspiracy had decided on a particular drug, real or invented, and explained that a side effect was the reddening of the face. Which created more and more suspects in and out of Liverpool. Any poor bloke who happened to get a red face as a natural bodily reaction to sweating and running became accused of being a doper. The theory never got mainstream attention, and was mostly kept to the 'darkside of the web' but I think there is a lot to learn from it.

Things can take control, become obsessive and become divorced from reality. The reason I find these accusations troubling is because it is a way of passing responsibility from one club to another. The idea that Leicester are doping is comforting, regardless of the reasons for promoting the idea, its convincing ourselves that we actually deserved it more, and that it would be justice for us to win. This is creating enemies, creating a dichotomy or deserving and undeserving but more importantly it is taking away the focus from what we are doing towards what others are doing. This is the point I want to make, we as fans should be focused on ourselves, we should be involved in the raw emotion that football bring and not become cynical and entitled to the point that we are no longer allowing ourselves to be dragged around by the magical moments of football but rather we are thinking ' I want this, why isnt this happening?' ahh its the fault of those other clubs because they are lucky/cheats/dopers whatever. Take it on systematically if your worried, not through deeply speculative theories.

 

[kaz Hirai]

People think you're bitter because you're casting doubt on their incredible achievements with literally zero evidence beyond the fact that they're doing better than expected.

Indeed, the thing is if it were Leicester and Arsenal figting out for the title and we weren't involved. We'd have a right laugh if the Arsenal fans were going on about some of the things we pin on Leicester

 

[Hazardousman]

People think you're bitter because you're casting doubt on their incredible achievements with literally zero evidence beyond the fact that they're doing better than expected.

No I am casting doubts on them for perfectly logical reasons which have been explained multiple times in numerous threads by numerous people which have then been ignored by people who believe otherwise with only "You are bitter."

Nobody has yet to explain within reasonable logic how they have improved so drastically besides "luck" "one off season" "hard work and passion" and yes sure these could be logical explanations but they are improbable given the massive amount that has changed for them.

I guess we will never truly find out but that doesn't mean we should not ask questions and we shouldn't have to be accused of being bitter for asking them.

Like I have said before, if Villa managed to stay up and then went on to win the title the following season would people not question that?

Over the years you have had people slam others for considering cheating as a possible reason and every time they have said the same thing "bitter" "sore losers" etc but numerous times it has been proven that individuals have cheated.

I am not saying Leicester are cheating and if they have done this legitimately then fair play to them but I think the question should be asked simply because it seems illogical and sure illogical things can happen from time to time but more often than not when something seems illogical there is normally a reason behind it.

 

[C0YS]

And the reason people are accusing people of being bitter is because of this bullshit narrative that Leicester are the "underdog" and people would try and defend anything because they aren't one of the "big clubs" whilst they ignore the fact they are being investigated for financial doping and breaking FFP rules and are owned by a Thai Billionaire (recent ownership might I add.)

This is what it is, people seem to have taken Leicester on as their second team because they aren't one of the "traditional"" for example saying stuff like "If we don't win it then they deserve it, anybody but Arsenal and Man City"

And because of that level of bias and commitment it's apparent people don't want to even question if they could be possibly cheating, nobody from what I have seen has outright said they are, they are questioning it and it's a reasonable question to ask given their massive turnaround that is hardly ever seen in sport especially in team sport from players who are in the latter stages of their career and who have mostly had mediocre careers at best.

I think people need to stop throwing the word "bitter" at people for asking a reasonable question just because they believe the PL is some sacred institution that can do no wrong and would never have cheats (which in itself is beyond ridiculous to think cheating doesn't happen or corruption and fixing doesn't happen in one of the richest leagues in the world.)

I was saying I thought Leicester were cheatiing when we were sitting in fourth and I thought we had no chance at a title push, it doesn't add up, their improvement doesn't add up, sure it could be a freak occurance, it's not impossible to think that's the case, it's just when looking at it from a logical perspective it is improbable.

Does that make me bitter for thinking that? No. Because I would be thinking it if any other team did the same thing in such a short space of time with no logical reason, including ourselves.

I agree with the financial stuff.

But the massive turnaround used to happen literally all the time before financial doping. You just need to look into spurs's history to see countless occasions of it. Leicester have 3 of the best layers in the league, with those players and a solid unit you can go far. I have answered the broader questions, I'm asking why is Leicester being singled out? And frankly also Im asking why do people seem to think that Leicester are a particularly fit team? When nothing, apart from maybe injuries, seems to suggest

 

[Lilbaz]

And the reason people are accusing people of being bitter is because of this bullshit narrative that Leicester are the "underdog" and people would try and defend anything because they aren't one of the "big clubs" whilst they ignore the fact they are being investigated for financial doping and breaking FFP rules and are owned by a Thai Billionaire (recent ownership might I add.)

This is what it is, people seem to have taken Leicester on as their second team because they aren't one of the "traditional"" for example saying stuff like "If we don't win it then they deserve it, anybody but Arsenal and Man City"

And because of that level of bias and commitment it's apparent people don't want to even question if they could be possibly cheating, nobody from what I have seen has outright said they are, they are questioning it and it's a reasonable question to ask given their massive turnaround that is hardly ever seen in sport especially in team sport from players who are in the latter stages of their career and who have mostly had mediocre careers at best.

I think people need to stop throwing the word "bitter" at people for asking a reasonable question just because they believe the PL is some sacred institution that can do no wrong and would never have cheats (which in itself is beyond ridiculous to think cheating doesn't happen or corruption and fixing doesn't happen in one of the richest leagues in the world.)

I was saying I thought Leicester were cheatiing when we were sitting in fourth and I thought we had no chance at a title push, it doesn't add up, their improvement doesn't add up, sure it could be a freak occurance, it's not impossible to think that's the case, it's just when looking at it from a logical perspective it is improbable.

Does that make me bitter for thinking that? No. Because I would be thinking it if any other team did the same thing in such a short space of time with no logical reason, including ourselves.

I'm not accusing anyone of being bitter. I am saying it comes across as petty and bitter and makes our fans look like bad losers.
If they are cheating then it is up to the fa to catch them none of your questioning will change anything.

 

[theShiznit]

That Telegraph undercover sting seems to have A: fallen by the wayside. B: been swept under the carpet. C: been silenced.

 

[Disconosebleed]

No I am casting doubts on them for perfectly logical reasons which have been explained multiple times in numerous threads by numerous people which have then been ignored by people who believe otherwise with only "You are bitter."

You've based it mostly on stats, but the stats don't back you up - the only hard evidence posted in here showed that Leicester do not feature in the stats for most running either for individuals or as a team. In any case, while I disagree with those like Gary Lineker that say PEDs are useless in a sport like football which relies so heavily on technique and organisation, it is fair to say that they won't take a team from relegation candidates to champions. Your theory is based on a feeling rather than facts.

Nobody has yet to explain within reasonable logic how they have improved so drastically besides "luck" "one off season" "hard work and passion" and yes sure these could be logical explanations but they are improbable given the massive amount that has changed for them.

Without going into too much detail - they've got three exceptionally good players in Kante, Mahrez and Vardy backed up by a manager who has drilled them to play to a very specific set of instructions - most notably the fact that the full backs barely push on at all and sit very narrow, forcing the opposition to play in wide areas which leads to crosses which Morgan and Huth are built to defend against.

As I mentioned earlier, their success can be boiled down to the fact that they are set up perfectly to hide their weaknesses and maximise their strengths - Morgan and Huth are suspectible to balls in behind, but the narrow, deep defence prevents this being an issue. Mahrez and Vardy are at their best when in space, so Leicester's counter-attacking style maximises their impact.

Don't get me wrong, it's still incredible that they're going to win the league (probably) and they're riding the crest of a wave which I imagine won't see them come close to repeating the feat next year - but Ranieri's tactics have had a huge impact on their improvement, he's got them playing in a way which makes them incredibly difficult to score against and capable of slicing through teams on the break. This is why they're doing so well, not because they're all freebasing nandrolone on Friday nights.

 

[etchedchaos]

I agree with the financial stuff.

But the massive turnaround used to happen literally all the time before financial doping. You just need to look into spurs's history to see countless occasions of it. Leicester have 3 of the best layers in the league, with those players and a solid unit you can go far. I have answered the broader questions, I'm asking why is Leicester being singled out? And frankly also Im asking why do people seem to think that Leicester are a particularly fit team? When nothing, apart from maybe injuries, seems to suggest

Literally all the time eh? Looking back the last 50 years, I can probably point towards a relegation faced team winning the league the next season on 3 occasions, and two of those were outright promotions from the lower league. Leicester are literally the only team to ever face relegation in one season then come back and romp to the league. Even in the pantheon of turnarounds the Leicester one is head and shoulders above everything else.

 

[E.L.Strict]

I know it seems far fetched to assume they're doping

Why? I can't think of a single reason that makes it far fetched.

 

[C0YS]

Literally all the time eh? Looking back the last 50 years, I can probably point towards a relegation faced team winning the league the next season on 3 occasions, and two of those were outright promotions from the lower league. Leicester are literally the only team to ever face relegation in one season then come back and romp to the league. Even in the pantheon of turnarounds the Leicester one is head and shoulders above everything else.

Leicester haven't won the league yet. I am just trying to say that teals have regularly fluctuated in there position. Considering in the last 50 years has coincided with the dominance of two teams Liverpool and Man utd it is not surprising that actually winning the league is a rare occurrence. At the moment there is a power vacuum so mobility has increased.Anyway if you can point to 3 times in 50 that makes it a 6% chance, which frankly doesn't exactly make it a incredibly rare.

The point im making is fluctuation happen between teams doing very well to suddenly facing a relegation scrap the season after and visa verse like tottenham in the 1950s, (50-promoted 51-winners; 56- 18th 57-2nd 58-3rd 59-18) or you can look at Newcastle promoted in 93 finished 2nd 94 than in 97- 2nd 98-13th; Or Nottingham Forest 93-relegated 94-promoted 95-3rd only for in 97 to get relegated again.Aston villa 88 promoted 89 -17th (stayed up by 1 point) 90-2nd 91-17th is a very similar example to Leicester. I could go on but these are just some example I could find, without too much detail looking. Ups and downs are natural in football, and you will see more dramatic versions of it now the PL is loaded, not just the big teams. Leicester's rise is remarkable, but it is still inkeeping with plenty of historical precedence

 

[C0YS]

It's in the post in the previous page.

Show me evidence, thats what im saying. All the stuff regarding fitness seems to nt be backed up with statistics. Which show Leicester to be a mid-table/europa league challenger when it comes to distance covered a game.

 

[E.L.Strict]

Show me evidence, thats what im saying. All the stuff regarding fitness seems to nt be backed up with statistics. Which show Leicester to be a mid-table/europa league challenger when it comes to distance covered a game.

I respect your position of wanting evidence, and I think that's always a smart starting point. As for Leicester being the fittest team, I've spent ages this season trying to find relevant stats to back up that claim, but I don't think there is any that is freely available. However I do also think that just as the maximum sprint speed stats are obscured by match events and tactics, stats for total distance run would be limited in the same way. For example, Leicester have less possession on average than almost everyone else in the league. That means more time staying in their defensive shape, and less time transitioning between attack and defense, which means running many meters less. You can also find that their build up play is the most direct in the league - again this means many meter less of running. Link http://www.skysports.com/football/n...s-speed-of-attack-is-a-premier-league-anomaly

So I would argue that total distance covered by each team really won't yield many clues, unless you take playing style into account. The reason Leicester are midtable in the distance covered statistics is because their playing style needs less distance run than other styles. Bournemouth are right up there with us terms of distance covered, and you can see in the above graph that they are right next to us in terms of build up play.

In terms of evidence overall, I'm not sure that when it comes to doping (or match fixing etc) there can really be any evidence clear enough for a skeptical albeit rational mind to accept. At the time, what evidence would you have had to back up claims that Armstrong was doping? In my opinion you would have had to have used your own eyes to come to the conclusion that it didn't feel right, for example believing that he wasn't trying to scale a particular climb at his full speed. In this situation of Leicester, what would constitute 'evidence' for you?

For me, the table now compared to a year ago is a hugely damning statistic. Is it evidence? Definitely not to a rational mind, especially if looked at in isolation. But there a whole host of other factors also, not least the claims in the ST article of a player being referred to Bonar for a testtorone treatment THIS SEASON. Again, this isn't evidence that implicates Leicester, but it should make you wonder.

Another factor is that in terms of statistics they are near the bottom of the rankings for every measure related to technical ability, specifically having some of the worst possession stats and passing accuracy across loads of the top leagues. Physically and mentally they do not have a problem, but technically they do. This isn't really evidence either, again especially not in isolation, but I feel the case is building.

Also, as I touched on above, you can see it when you watch them play. They have 'Reverse Lack of Match Fitness,' they are sharper than everyone else. You may not agree, but I think it's blatant. This isn't really evidence, but combined with their recovery from injuries, I think the case is stronger again. If they really do have 2 days more off per week than other teams, then things get more intriguing, especially in terms of rest days being essential to some illicit blood treatments. [Edit: The italics is NOT true, Leicester have 2 days off in total, Sunday and Wednesday. Source ]

This is without taking into account a whole host of other 'strange' factors, such as the presence of a clear incentive to cheat in the form of the investigation into their dodgy FFP deal last April, which happens to coincide with their unbelievable turnaround in form from about 3 weeks after this. Or how about that Brinded, of the ST expose, is in regular contact with Huth and clearly is his friend? Not to mention Leicester's affiliation with a certain Italian ex-cycling sports research centre, which just so happens to also be affiliated with other teams (Sassuolo, Monaco and Juventus) all of whom have had incredible recent achievements (Sassuolo non league to EL, Monaco promotion from Ligue 2 then runners up in Ligue 1, and Juventus 5 titles in a row.)

This is nothing to do with bitterness and everything to do with a web of clearly suspicious events. I will grant you that there is no 'evidence' so to speak, but there is an abundance of smoke.

Leicester being clean is the real 'conspiracy theory' here.