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5 of the top 10 fastest players are from Leicester

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
I respect your position of wanting evidence, and I think that's always a smart starting point. As for Leicester being the fittest team, I've spent ages this season trying to find relevant stats to back up that claim, but I don't think there is any that is freely available. However I do also think that just as the maximum sprint speed stats are obscured by match events and tactics, stats for total distance run would be limited in the same way. For example, Leicester have less possession on average than almost everyone else in the league. That means more time staying in their defensive shape, and less time transitioning between attack and defense, which means running many meters less. You can also find that their build up play is the most direct in the league - again this means many meter less of running. Link http://www.skysports.com/football/n...s-speed-of-attack-is-a-premier-league-anomaly

graphic-adam-bate-passes-pass_3417002.jpg


So I would argue that total distance covered by each team really won't yield many clues, unless you take playing style into account. The reason Leicester are midtable in the distance covered statistics is because their playing style needs less distance run than other styles. Bournemouth are right up there with us terms of distance covered, and you can see in the above graph that they are right next to us in terms of build up play.

In terms of evidence overall, I'm not sure that when it comes to doping (or match fixing etc) there can really be any evidence clear enough for a skeptical albeit rational mind to accept. At the time, what evidence would you have had to back up claims that Armstrong was doping? In my opinion you would have had to have used your own eyes to come to the conclusion that it didn't feel right, for example believing that he wasn't trying to scale a particular climb at his full speed. In this situation of Leicester, what would constitute 'evidence' for you?

For me, the table now compared to a year ago is a hugely damning statistic. Is it evidence? Definitely not to a rational mind, especially if looked at in isolation. But there a whole host of other factors also, not least the claims in the ST article of a player being referred to Bonar for a testtorone treatment THIS SEASON. Again, this isn't evidence that implicates Leicester, but it should make you wonder.

Another factor is that in terms of statistics they are near the bottom of the rankings for every measure related to technical ability, specifically having some of the worst possession stats and passing accuracy across loads of the top leagues. Physically and mentally they do not have a problem, but technically they do. This isn't really evidence either, again especially not in isolation, but I feel the case is building.

Also, as I touched on above, you can see it when you watch them play. They have 'Reverse Lack of Match Fitness,' they are sharper than everyone else. You may not agree, but I think it's blatant. This isn't really evidence, but combined with their recovery from injuries, I think the case is stronger again. If they really do have 2 days more off per week than other teams, then things get more intriguing, especially in terms of rest days being essential to some illicit blood treatments.

This is without taking into account a whole host of other 'strange' factors, such as the presence of a clear incentive to cheat in the form of the investigation into their dodgy FFP deal last April, which happens to coincide with their unbelievable turnaround in form from about 3 weeks after this. Or how about that Brinded, of the ST expose, is in regular contact with Huth and clearly is his friend? Not to mention Leicester's affiliation with a certain Italian ex-cycling sports research centre, which just so happens to also be affiliated with other teams (Sassuolo, Monaco and Juventus) all of whom have had incredible recent achievements (Sassuolo non league to EL, Monaco promotion from Ligue 2 then runners up in Ligue 1, and Juventus 5 titles in a row.)

This is nothing to do with bitterness and everything to do with a web of clearly suspicious events. I will grant you that there is no 'evidence' so to speak, but there is an abundance of smoke.

Leicester being clean is the real 'conspiracy theory' here.

There is probably just as much smoke coming off us. What would you think if other fans started saying they thought we were on drugs? You would laugh at them and think they were wankers.
 

Hazardousman

Audere est Facere
Jul 24, 2013
4,619
8,944
I respect your position of wanting evidence, and I think that's always a smart starting point. As for Leicester being the fittest team, I've spent ages this season trying to find relevant stats to back up that claim, but I don't think there is any that is freely available. However I do also think that just as the maximum sprint speed stats are obscured by match events and tactics, stats for total distance run would be limited in the same way. For example, Leicester have less possession on average than almost everyone else in the league. That means more time staying in their defensive shape, and less time transitioning between attack and defense, which means running many meters less. You can also find that their build up play is the most direct in the league - again this means many meter less of running. Link http://www.skysports.com/football/n...s-speed-of-attack-is-a-premier-league-anomaly

graphic-adam-bate-passes-pass_3417002.jpg


So I would argue that total distance covered by each team really won't yield many clues, unless you take playing style into account. The reason Leicester are midtable in the distance covered statistics is because their playing style needs less distance run than other styles. Bournemouth are right up there with us terms of distance covered, and you can see in the above graph that they are right next to us in terms of build up play.

In terms of evidence overall, I'm not sure that when it comes to doping (or match fixing etc) there can really be any evidence clear enough for a skeptical albeit rational mind to accept. At the time, what evidence would you have had to back up claims that Armstrong was doping? In my opinion you would have had to have used your own eyes to come to the conclusion that it didn't feel right, for example believing that he wasn't trying to scale a particular climb at his full speed. In this situation of Leicester, what would constitute 'evidence' for you?

For me, the table now compared to a year ago is a hugely damning statistic. Is it evidence? Definitely not to a rational mind, especially if looked at in isolation. But there a whole host of other factors also, not least the claims in the ST article of a player being referred to Bonar for a testtorone treatment THIS SEASON. Again, this isn't evidence that implicates Leicester, but it should make you wonder.

Another factor is that in terms of statistics they are near the bottom of the rankings for every measure related to technical ability, specifically having some of the worst possession stats and passing accuracy across loads of the top leagues. Physically and mentally they do not have a problem, but technically they do. This isn't really evidence either, again especially not in isolation, but I feel the case is building.

Also, as I touched on above, you can see it when you watch them play. They have 'Reverse Lack of Match Fitness,' they are sharper than everyone else. You may not agree, but I think it's blatant. This isn't really evidence, but combined with their recovery from injuries, I think the case is stronger again. If they really do have 2 days more off per week than other teams, then things get more intriguing, especially in terms of rest days being essential to some illicit blood treatments.

This is without taking into account a whole host of other 'strange' factors, such as the presence of a clear incentive to cheat in the form of the investigation into their dodgy FFP deal last April, which happens to coincide with their unbelievable turnaround in form from about 3 weeks after this. Or how about that Brinded, of the ST expose, is in regular contact with Huth and clearly is his friend? Not to mention Leicester's affiliation with a certain Italian ex-cycling sports research centre, which just so happens to also be affiliated with other teams (Sassuolo, Monaco and Juventus) all of whom have had incredible recent achievements (Sassuolo non league to EL, Monaco promotion from Ligue 2 then runners up in Ligue 1, and Juventus 5 titles in a row.)

This is nothing to do with bitterness and everything to do with a web of clearly suspicious events. I will grant you that there is no 'evidence' so to speak, but there is an abundance of smoke.

Leicester being clean is the real 'conspiracy theory' here.

Essentially this is how I would articulate my suspicions in response to people asking for evidence and why I believe that something isn't quite right with Leicester.

Yes there is no "proof" but there also isn't any "proof" that they aren't involved with cheating and whilst people will say "Innocent until proven guilty" that doesn't mean we shouldn't be asking the questions does it?

It's small things, like for example how Vardy can be 93 minutes into a game and have a turn of pace like the game has only just started after he has spent the last 90 mins running around like some sort of dog after a bone.

They don't slow down, they don't tire, they do the opposite, they seem to get fitter and sharper as the season goes on.

I can sympathise with things such as the manager has improved them and numerous other factors which @Disconosebleed has outlined in a response to me (I appreciate that by the way, first time someone has given me actual solid reasoning alongside @Spurger King )

But that only explains so much to me, people say it's based on feeling that I think they are doping well the same can be said for people who think it's legitimate, it's based on feeling that Leicester have simply just improved because of good management and certain players.

But to me that doesn't explain a number of variables for example, why now are players like Vardy suddenly blazing out of the blocks and having the season of their life after such mediocre careers?

Why if it is solely down to the managers tactics, is this sort of thing not done more often in the PL? It's not like Raneiri is some world beater, if anything he has had a rather underwhelming career for a top tier manager.

Also plenty of teams have had better players than Leicester in the past and attempted to play defensive counter attacking football to no avail and also many teams from the lower half of the table base their entire style on this "park the bus" philosophy and yet never have a season like Leicester are.

I find it very very hard to believe that this is simply down to players suddenly all having the best seasons of their life and a perfect manager coming in at the perfect time to guide them to success, the odds of that happening are almost impossible to believe.

Not saying that it is impossible however, just I find it very improbable and then when you add in alongside that the things that @E.L.Strict has said and numerous other posters and then what I am seeing with my own eyes (unbiased eyes because when I first noticed this it was before we were even in competition with Leicester for anything, it just seemed suspicious to me,) it makes me believe something isn't right.

Neither side can prove if they are cheating/not cheating the FA in all honesty need to improve testing, 3 times a season for testing is not enough and easily avoidable, quite frankly it stinks of them not being interested in catching players because they want to avoid scandels.
 

Hazardousman

Audere est Facere
Jul 24, 2013
4,619
8,944
There is probably just as much smoke coming off us. What would you think if other fans started saying they thought we were on drugs? You would laugh at them and think they were wankers.

How is there smoke coming off of us? It's a ridiculous comparison, we have been slowly building our team, we have world class training facilities and a manager who has had every member of our side on double training and fitness, fitness is a core component of our managers philosophy, it makes complete sense we have improved in that regard.

Leicester have literally had a massive turn around in a 12 month period with no hint of slow improvement whatsoever and nothing to even suggest fitness is a priority with their manager, actually their manager has come out on multiple occasions stating the exact opposite citing that he allows players to have days off rather than train.
 

E.L.Strict

Cerebral Houdini
Staff
Jun 27, 2004
5,638
1,509
There is probably just as much smoke coming off us. What would you think if other fans started saying they thought we were on drugs? You would laugh at them and think they were wankers.

Well what I would think of it would depend on what the reasons were that they were suggesting that. If it seemed plausible then I would reluctantly agree with them, and if not then I would just move on.

Suppose they said something like: "Have you seen Bale's transformation during the summer? He's suddenly the hulk. Probably something dodgy in all that blood spinning they do down there. It could at least be an explanation for the style of play that AVB wants to implement, it's so dull watching them trying to bore the opposition to death with possession." Then I might disagree but I wouldn't call them wankers either.

Which of the things that I identified as smoke in my above post do you think apply to us as well? Suspiciously high league position? Specific allegations against us made by a doctor? Being totally crap at anything that involves technical skill? Players looking sharper than the opposition? Never looking tired? Incredible recovery from injury? Having more time off per week than any other team? A clear incentive to cheat that correlates to our improvement in form? Having a player that is friends with one of the characters from the ST article? An unreported affiliation with a sports centre which is an offshoot of an old school Italian cycling team? A manager which also managed another team affiliated with this sports centre and got them promoted and then finished 2nd the following year?

Which?

I feel like you're just avoiding the issues by making this about how I would feel if we were being accused. It's obvious how I'd feel. What you don't understand is that I feel pretty much the same because of the Leicester situation. It's not my team that I'm upset on behalf of, it's my love of football. It was funny when Van Persie got sent off for shooting after the whistle had gone, against Barcelona, but it didn't make me feel good overall because it was clearly bullshit.

I think you are assuming that I want Leicester to be doping, and that it would please me if they were. But my waning love for football would beg to differ.
 

Monkey boy

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
6,380
17,039
personally I don't give a flying fuck about what other fans think of us and am surprised that so many people on here seem to be?? I think the last few weeks have shown that we are pretty much universally hated anyway so what's the difference?

Do I think ALL the Leicester players are doping? probably not but do I suspect that a few of them are? Yes I absolutely do. There are so many similarities between now known doping scandals and this one yet people are dismissing these claims as pure fantasy. When there is so much money involved in any situation then there will ALWAYS be somebody looking to bend the rules.
 

charliemouse

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2011
266
497
What seems a little dodgy to me is how some of their players have so quickly become so much better. Wes Morgan was nothing more than an average championship defender all his career, Huth was never even good enough to play at centre back for Stoke most weeks and even someone like Marhez, who struggled to score goals in the 2nd division in France, have come on leaps and bounds this season.

People will say 'well maybe it's the coaching' but Ranieri has won nothing in his long career apart from a couple of league titles in the second tier and twocups. I mean for fucks sake, Greece sacked him as he managed to lose to the fucking Faroe Islands.
 

tttcowan

Well-Known Member
Aug 12, 2005
2,792
3,295
There is probably just as much smoke coming off us. What would you think if other fans started saying they thought we were on drugs? You would laugh at them and think they were wankers.
Firstly, I couldn't give a shit what other fans are saying about us. You probably shouldn't either.
Secondly, if you honestly think there's as much smoke coming of us you can't of been paying attention. To anything since Poch has arrived. And anything about most of last season when it comes to Leicester.
Thirdly. This is forum, nobody is even saying they ARE doping. People are just looking at what's going on and tying to make sense of it all. There's no harm in that. It's what forums are for.

Nothing like this has ever happened in the top division. They're the same players. Playing technically inept football. With the same training regime. A manager who although new made a point of not drastically changing anything byb his own admission and their dramatic change started before he got there anyway. And they've gone from properly shit to top of the league in a year. It is, at the very least, a reasonable question to ask how that can be.
 

tttcowan

Well-Known Member
Aug 12, 2005
2,792
3,295
personally I don't give a flying fuck about what other fans think of us and am surprised that so many people on here seem to be?? I think the last few weeks have shown that we are pretty much universally hated anyway so what's the difference?

Do I think ALL the Leicester players are doping? probably not but do I suspect that a few of them are? Yes I absolutely do. There are so many similarities between now known doping scandals and this one yet people are dismissing these claims as pure fantasy. When there is so much money involved in any situation then there will ALWAYS be somebody looking to bend the rules.

Exactly. When the owner/chairman or whoever is sat there last Christmas at the bottom of the table. It's not an unreasonable stretch for a less scrupulous person to think, if they have the right contacts and information. Sod it, I know you can dope and get away with it, the tests are crap, what have we seriously got to lose. What are they gonna do if we do get caught, chuck us out of the PL? Well we're going down anyway. In fact, if you were going to instigate a doping program the best team to go to would be bottom of the league at Christmas. The team with the least to lose.

There is no evidence, of course there's not. But there is a lot of circumstantial oddities.

Also, I've said this before, but you could do this with 2-3 people knowing at a club. Certainly the players wouldn't need to know about it. They'd be the last people you would tell.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
Firstly, I couldn't give a shit what other fans are saying about us. You probably shouldn't either.
Secondly, if you honestly think there's as much smoke coming of us you can't of been paying attention. To anything since Poch has arrived. And anything about most of last season when it comes to Leicester.
Thirdly. This is forum, nobody is even saying they ARE doping. People are just looking at what's going on and tying to make sense of it all. There's no harm in that. It's what forums are for.

Nothing like this has ever happened in the top division. They're the same players. Playing technically inept football. With the same training regime. A manager who although new made a point of not drastically changing anything byb his own admission and their dramatic change started before he got there anyway. And they've gone from properly shit to top of the league in a year. It is, at the very least, a reasonable question to ask how that can be.

What answer do you expect and from who?
 

michaelden

Knight of the Fat Fanny
Aug 13, 2004
26,386
21,685
I mentioned the Wes Morgan speed stat to an Arsenal fan and she replied sour grapes. Funnily enough I had already told her that I was happy we had exceeded expectations, and I was just surprised she wasn't more interested in them possibly cheating after the Sahko test news considering they are potentially keeping Arsenal and others out.
 

E.L.Strict

Cerebral Houdini
Staff
Jun 27, 2004
5,638
1,509
Seeing as this has been bumped I may as well mention that I edited my post earlier in the thread where I had mentioned the rumour that Leicester have an extra two days off per week. I found an interview with one of their coaches and he lays their schedule out really clearly, you can see it HERE.

Monday - players that played have recovery session and cryotherapy. Other player small side games.
Tuesday - whole team trains intensively with the ball, small sided games and strength training.
Wednesday - rest
Thursday - Intense training. Tactial preparation.
Friday - 20-30% of the weekly load power (whatever that means)
Saturday - match
Sunday - rest.

Sessions last 65-90 minutes, and there are no double sessions.

@Hazardousman I think this another stat that we can knock on the head now. (y)
 

Hazardousman

Audere est Facere
Jul 24, 2013
4,619
8,944
Seeing as this has been bumped I may as well mention that I edited my post earlier in the thread where I had mentioned the rumour that Leicester have an extra two days off per week. I found an interview with one of their coaches and he lays their schedule out really clearly, you can see it HERE.

Monday - players that played have recovery session and cryotherapy. Other player small side games.
Tuesday - whole team trains intensively with the ball, small sided games and strength training.
Wednesday - rest
Thursday - Intense training. Tactial preparation.
Friday - 20-30% of the weekly load power (whatever that means)
Saturday - match
Sunday - rest.

Sessions last 65-90 minutes, and there are no double sessions.

@Hazardousman I think this another stat that we can knock on the head now. (y)

Thanks for sharing mate, appreciate that.
 
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