A recent history

Discussion in 'Columns' started by Frozen_Waffles, Dec 17, 2013.

  • by Frozen_Waffles, Dec 17, 2013 at 3:30 PM
  • Frozen_Waffles

    Frozen_Waffles Well-Known Member

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    A manager has defensive injury problems, he has to revert to playing an untested defender, new to the Premier League a Frenchman, the experienced defenders are out injured and the new director of football has just had his first window of transfers. With all these difficulties a well-loved manager has been shown no patience and subsequently the door, sound familiar.

    The year was 2007 and the manager Martin Jol. Damien Commoli the new director of football had, in the summer of 2007, signed all new players to the Premier League under the age of 22 (except Darren Bent). Lacking Premiership experience and with injury problems the previously successful squad then went on to have a terrible start to the season.

    Ok a little more history for you…. Spurs with Juande Ramos at the helm, rescues Spurs and gives them a cup and a respectable 8th place finish after a woeful start. Some say it’s the squad settling others say it is great managerial work from Ramos. Now it’s time for rebuilding, so Commoli and Ramos work together to reinvigorate the squad ignoring their previous season problems putting them down to the old manager, they go for youth again. This time another 10 players come in, 2 premiership players among them this time. They decide to let go of 6 experienced first teamers as well their star player for big money (Dimitar Berbatov).

    However disaster strikes yet again, a terrible start I am sure you will remember. Harry Redknapp will be happy to tell you how many points we achieved from how many games that season if you had forgot. So Harry comes in, and this time we have learned our lesson. The director of football has gone and we go out and sign 5 players all experienced in the premier league. This along with a few of our youngsters coming through and previous signed players are now acclimatised to the pace of the English game.

    We are looking good and Harry takes us through some great Spurs times, continuing to top up the squad with experienced premiership players. The balance is right we are so close to finally making it to the next stage. Another disaster strikes, our entertaining manager has been distracted by national jobs and tax evasion, Spurs just miss out on the Champions League due to Chelsea doing the impossible.

    The decision is made; we need to bring in someone for the new age of football. Enter Andre Villas-Boas, he is cool and uses a lot of fancy words, he must be good and indeed he is. Even with the loss of two of our star players, Spurs have an amazing season though sadly still missing out on the Champions League. Although some start to grumble that Bale has dragged us kicking and screaming through the season.

    Now it’s time, it has to be, it’s perfect. Daniel Levy the orchestrator behind the whole play so far makes a new decision. It’s radical, it’s out there it’s, it’s….. the same thing again. We go on to sell not only our star player but ship out a few of our experienced players as well for good measure. We get in a new Director of football, now he is cool and Italian, what could be better. He spends an immense amount of money newly accrued from the sale of our players.

    With all these changes, everyone around the Spurs faithful is positive. How can we fail we have a world class manager, world class players and money to burn the future is bright…

    Memories and thoughts pop out of nowhere, wait a minute have we seen this before. Images of gangly Russians pop in to the head of the Spurs faithful. One question, with these 7 players brought in, how many of them have premiership experience? Even a few don’t speak English.

    No problem, our manager will steady the ship. And indeed he does, Spurs are solid and keep it tight, we know it’s going to be a struggle but when these players settle we will be a force. It’s not entertaining to watch, but it will be and these teams cannot keep parking the bus. It will come all we need is patience.

    For the 4th time in 6 years a manger has been removed from Tottenham Hotspur football club. We are now on our 3rd director of football in this time. Daniel Levy believed that Jol, Ramos, Redknapp and now AVB were not ready to take us to the next level. The fact is Jol took us to 5th two seasons running, since Jol’s removal we have only ever managed one place above this and a minor cup in 6 years.

    However, we have a new training facility and a new stadium on the way, we arguably have the strongest squad we have ever had and in some areas we have done very well. However in the football manager business we have been abysmal. Daniel Levy – whose job it is to hire and fire managers, surely his position is in question. By his estimation he has not appointed the correct setup on a consistent basis. In all honesty if Daniel Levy was in charge of Daniel Levy he probably would have fired him for these mistakes.

    However rather than suggest a replacement chairman, I suggest the opposite we keep Daniel Levy but urge him to select the next manager for the next 5 years, not reassess this position on a month by month basis.
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Discussion in 'Columns' started by Frozen_Waffles, Dec 17, 2013.

  1. onthetwo
    i wonder how Sherwood and Co will communicate with the likes of Lamela going forward? Something tells me his command of languages wont be as good as AVBs, could be wrong of course.
  2. dontcallme
    Finding that right manager is so hard.

    Redknapp was very good at dealing with difficult characters. At Portsmouth he got a lot of players like Kanu and Lauren to play well long after their sell-by date.

    At Spurs he got Adebayor and BAE playing to their potential. If AVB had handled BAE then our defensive injuries wouldn't have been an issue. BAE covers left back and Vertonghen stays in the centre.

    AVB had his way, was inflexible and has to take some responsibility for our lack of cover in defence and options up front.

    I love Levy and feel he has done great things for our club, but his management hiring has been a failure. No continuity and the bold steps he has taken have backfired.
  3. TottenhamMattSpur

    On the whole Levy has done well. I often feel that although we've improved we have taken longer than we needed.

    Sacking Jol was wrong.
    Ramos was wrong for Spurs, we had a great squad but messed up big time and that set us back years.
    Harry was spot on. Showed all the idiots out they're that you don't need to give a shit manager time, you give him the so.
    He got us massively ball on course. Whether asking him was right I don't know tbh. however the next move was critical.
    The right man could have turned us into genuine title contenders - last season. The wrong man could have systematically draped the foundation Harry built.

    Slowly undoing all the coaching that made players great or selling them.

    Needless to say Levy got it spectacularly wrong.

    Worryingly he missed opportunities to get the right man that he may not get again.
    A number of young talented managers have since moved on to pastors new.
  4. guate
    Frozen_Waffles, I agree with your assesment and now hope that Joe Lewis and the board of Directors take a long hard look at Danny Boy's managerial shenanigans and that he is called to task about them.
    As much as I admire his financial skills I detest the management round-a-bout he has brought on us aligning us to said tactics used by Chelski or Citeh when their managers don't provide INSTANT success.
    Levy really needs to take a long hard look at himself as he is not GOD even if he may think he is.
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  5. NeverRed
    I actually thought hiring Ramos at the time was a fantastic appointment. Due to his reputation and Sevilla achievements (the discipline & the way he had them playing).

    I also thought hiring AVB at the time too was pretty good due to his age vs experience, international knowledge & reputation, and the wish to build a long term project.

    Perhaps if they are honest about their feelings at the times those appointments happened, lots of SCers would concur with the above feelings too.

    The point is you can't really blame someone much for trying to do the best with what is realistically available in a situation in the past. The relates to the hires. I didn't really agree with many of the fires, though the redknapp one was the least bothering due to the national team debacle, his unleashed mouth, and his attitude at the time.

    Now I think Rijkaard, Rudi Garcia, or Yakin would be successful hires. Perhaps we should stay well clear!
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  6. DiscoD1882
    to be honest I hated the signing of Ramos. Jol was going through a sticky patch but there is no way he should have gone. he should still be with us now. imagine the evolution of the last 6/7 years if we had kept him. still rankles me.
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  7. mancman
    Excellent article. Success clearly cannot be achieved by the constant changing of management. The problem for me though was that AVB sadly, was not fit for purpose. I never felt that there was some great design in place, in fact the Spurs I used to love was disappearing fast. I can honestly say that Spurs were boring. I do hope Tim Sherwood does well and that he is offered the manager's job and we stick with him. Please god do not appoint Capello!
  8. TottenhamMattSpur
    I think the ideas of Ramos and AVB were a whole lot more appealing than the truth.
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  9. JimmyG2
    Still coming to terms with the sacking of AVB
    though I should be used to it by now,It's hardly a first.
    The embarrassments of Santini, Jol, Ramos, Harry and now AVB
    has made me very cynical about Spurs.
    Levy needs to give managers time in the same way
    that managers need to give players time.
    AVB was undermined by the inevitable pressure all Spurs managers feel,
    the ridiculous scattergun approach to signings:
    seven decent players but none with Prem. experience
    and some with no English.
    Well run club, my arse.
  10. dontcallme
    Sadly I agree.

    It's easy to come up with a playing style that you think will work and demand a certain professionalism from the players.

    The reality is that sometimes you don't have the players for that system so you either adapt or try your system with the wrong players but that isn't going to work.

    Sometimes players have difficult personalities. It's easy to say therefore they are unprofessional. But a good manager knows how to make these characters tick and get the best from them.
  11. TottenhamMattSpur

    On what baits should Levy give them time?
    Jol and Harry definitely because they were good for us and not doing badly at the time.

    Ramos? We'd have been relegated. He was and still is awful.
    The man's been found out. Complete fraud. Doesn't know what he's doing and is a total **** to work with. If he'd have stayed he'd have alienated most of the wonderful squad into leaving.

    I genuinely hate the cliché "sick with them"

    It's that sorry of attitude that saw West Ham go down Under Roeder and Newcastle go down Under Kinnear (for to long if not the whole season)

    It's a bit like saying if I just let this open wound carry on bleeding it'll get better by itself. It won't. You'll need to death.
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  12. TottenhamMattSpur
    My typing is dreadful. Sorry.
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  13. eddiebailey
    I like the analysis in the article, which is a fair summation of what we have been through, but not necessarily the conclusion.

    When we have had success it has been when Levy has been forced to be pragmatic and short term, with BMJ, foisted upon him by Frank in the wake of the Santini debacle, and Harry, foisted upon him by Kemsley in the wake of the Ramos debacle.

    With the arguable exceptions of Frank as DF, Levy's appointments for the long term have been unmitigated disasters: Hoddle, Santini, Comolli, Ramos, AVB.

    Perhaps it is because of his business background, but Levy seems unduly impressed by ambitious sociopaths. The problem is that such people tend to be narcissistic bullies who intimidate and manipulate rather than natural leaders who inspire and influence.

    Hopefully Levy will get it right this time. If Tim is not notably low in the sociopathic register, he is at least sufficiently aware of his shortcomings to surround himself with people like Chris and Les who make good his deficiencies.

    We need stability but there is no point digging a deeper hole by sticking with the wrong man.
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  14. Gb160
    Finally we agree on something ! ;)
  15. TottenhamMattSpur
    Not opinion ;-)
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  16. NeverRed
    I do agree, I didn't want Jol to go, I loved the big man & he said he loved me too, but given that they did sack him, I wasn't adverse to Ramos as a successor - at the time I was actually full of anticipation and thinking he would bring good things. It seemed very cut-throat & disappointing, but shrewd when the successor was announced.
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  17. Greenspur
    What the fuck does any of this mean?
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  18. spud
    I've stopped reading your posts because it's too difficult to work out what you mean. Can you check before posting or edit afterwards? I'd like to read what you have to say.
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  19. JamieDaCosta
    The only things I dont agree with are the Harry and Jol parts

    Redknapp is a manager I really liked but people have to rememeber, and no, the England and the tax things are no excuse, that we should have had 3rd sewn up and thus Chelsea winning the Champions League would't have made a difference

    I hold Redknapp (as much as I liked him as a manager) as the one responsible for us not getting 3rd and the run of results we went on during the last part of that season was not acceptable, drawing with Wolves at home, losing to QPR away, losing a 2 goal lead away against the scum, drawing at home to Stoke etc etc, it all cost us in the end and I feel that is the main reason Levy got rid


    Having said that, if 4th had been enough and we DID qualify for the Champions League, would he have kept him?

    There are a lot of unanswered questions there but whichever way you look at it, we should have come 3rd, especially when you consider the sizeable points gap and we lost our Mojo after the Newcastle game, you could blame other factors but I just think it was a coincidence and an easy get out clause for people to use

    As for big Mart, I loved the guy but again, the results during the last few months of his reign were really bad and we did not look like the same team that we were in the previous 2 seasons

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