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All Hail Our New (Defensive) Shape

EmperorKabir

SC's Resident Legend
Dec 8, 2004
5,278
846
Hi you lot. I've not posted on here in possibly years! -waves at older members-.

What do you lot reckon our best shape is now? I'm thinking mainly from the back. When we got Sanchez, there was a little part of me that looks back to why we've succeeded last season and I put it mainly down to great management by The Poch on developing the attacking wingbacks. By having a truly ridiculous trio of talent in the Belgians and Hugo who by themselves are a solid defensive unit, it gave the wingbacks freedom to push up and become our wingers and crossers. This in turn allows our attacking players to amble out with freedom in the middle section of the forward third and play a total football style attack, overwhelming our opponents and leading us to a second place finish.

So now, Sanchez came in and I thought... well.. we've been using Dier perhaps a little bit too defensively. Sanchez could go in a back 3 with Toby and Jan, allowing a solid defensive line, then allowing our wingbacks to attack a little more without panicking quite as much about running back to defend, which in turn makes them less tired. But when they do have to defend, we essentially have 5 at the back plus Hugo, PLUS any defensive or holding mids we have in front coming back in Dier, Moussa and Victor. On top of all this, due to the added amount our wingbacks can stay a bit further forward, our attacking players are crowded into the middle and can focus their energy on making forward runs instead of spreading larger distances around the park. And The Poch only went and did it, first game back from the break! :) :)

I'm not saying it's a drastic change; it's subtle, but it can make the difference in a lot of games on the odd extra chance defending or attacking, AND it allows us to change our shape which is what we have been limiting ourselves on so far.

The new 3-2-4-1 (the 2 being wingbacks who join any of the other lines) shape is epic, all hail The Poch. But if need be, we can go to a 4-4-2 just to mess with opposition tactics or a 2-2-5-1 or even 2-2-6 (yeah I realise I'm breaking it down a lot there lol and remember the 2 wingbacks move around between them; I'm not suggesting ridiculous hard structured formations). Plus Llorente is an option if we want 2 upfront just for giggles. We finally seem to have a squad!

Oh and to top it off, I'm writing this off the back of a 3 0 away win at Everton, but we had Sissoko on and imagine when we get Aurier in, who if it all works out, keeps his nose clean, defends like Walker with fewer mistakes, and crosses like Trippier, and Rose, who, annoying though his comments have been earlier, was epic for the few games he played for us last season. We'd seriously hold contention with some truly elite sides.

So guys,

the new Sanchez in at the back with Toby and Jan, who looks like a faster slightly weaker version of Ledley, with Aurier and Rose being lethal on the sides, and 1 or 2 of Moussa, Dier and Victor in front with everyone else scoring for fun in front, or another shape for you?


IFFF YOU SMEEEEEEEEELLLLLL WHAT THE POCH. IS.
COOKIN

:D
 

punkisback

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2004
4,417
7,284
I'm not fan. It's good when you want to be defensive but I struggle to see why we need two holding mids when we have 3 CBs already. It means we are left with only 2 AMs to provide any creativity.
 

Neon_Knight_

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2011
4,014
6,673
3-2-3-1 is only 9 players ;)

It really wasn't a new formation today though...we regularly played with Dier at RCB and Wanyama in CDM. We interchanged between 5-2-2-1 (or 3-2-2-2-1) and 4-2-3-1. We couldn't play with three CBs against Burnely (without using Wimmer/CCV), because Sanchez hadn't arrived and Wanyama was injured.

When we signed Wanyama, Dier was freed up from CDM to join a back three. Now that we also have Sanchez, Dier is freed up to either play in defence or midfield (or neither), as Poch sees fit, so we can be more flexible again.
 

lukespurs7

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2006
4,833
4,259
Depends game by game but our squad is set up for 5-2-2-1 formation with this being our strongest XI and bench:

lloris

Aurier
Toby
Sanchez
Jan
Rose

Wanyama
Dembele

Alli
Eriksen

Kane

Bench:
Vorm
Davies
Trippier
Dier
Sissoko
Son
Llorente

Then add to that: Foyth,Winks and Lamela, that is now a very strong squad!!!

But if we need to we can play 2 up with Llorente and Kane; we can play 5-3-2 and also 4-2-3-1 so great to have a basis of a way of playing but one we can tweak when we need to. Think if Sissoko can hit form with him, Son and N'Koudu back we will also have some pacey options when needed.
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
19,040
54,680
Hi you lot. I've not posted on here in possibly years! -waves at older members-.

What do you lot reckon our best shape is now? I'm thinking mainly from the back. When we got Sanchez, there was a little part of me that looks back to why we've succeeded last season and I put it mainly down to great management by The Poch on developing the attacking wingbacks. By having a truly ridiculous trio of talent in the Belgians and Hugo who by themselves are a solid defensive unit, it gave the wingbacks freedom to push up and become our wingers and crossers. This in turn allows our attacking players to amble out with freedom in the middle section of the forward third and play a total football style attack, overwhelming our opponents and leading us to a second place finish.

So now, Sanchez came in and I thought... well.. we've been using Dier perhaps a little bit too defensively. Sanchez could go in a back 3 with Toby and Jan, allowing a solid defensive line, then allowing our wingbacks to attack a little more without panicking quite as much about running back to defend, which in turn makes them less tired. But when they do have to defend, we essentially have 5 at the back plus Hugo, PLUS any defensive or holding mids we have in front coming back in Dier, Moussa and Victor. On top of all this, due to the added amount our wingbacks can stay a bit further forward, our attacking players are crowded into the middle and can focus their energy on making forward runs instead of spreading larger distances around the park. And The Poch only went and did it, first game back from the break! :) :)

I'm not saying it's a drastic change; it's subtle, but it can make the difference in a lot of games on the odd extra chance defending or attacking, AND it allows us to change our shape which is what we have been limiting ourselves on so far.

The new 3-2-4-1 (the 2 being wingbacks who join any of the other lines) shape is epic, all hail The Poch. But if need be, we can go to a 4-4-2 just to mess with opposition tactics or a 2-2-5-1 or even 2-2-6 (yeah I realise I'm breaking it down a lot there lol and remember the 2 wingbacks move around between them; I'm not suggesting ridiculous hard structured formations). Plus Llorente is an option if we want 2 upfront just for giggles. We finally seem to have a squad!

Oh and to top it off, I'm writing this off the back of a 3 0 away win at Everton, but we had Sissoko on and imagine when we get Aurier in, who if it all works out, keeps his nose clean, defends like Walker with fewer mistakes, and crosses like Trippier, and Rose, who, annoying though his comments have been earlier, was epic for the few games he played for us last season. We'd seriously hold contention with some truly elite sides.

So guys,

the new Sanchez in at the back with Toby and Jan, who looks like a faster slightly weaker version of Ledley, with Aurier and Rose being lethal on the sides, and 1 or 2 of Moussa, Dier and Victor in front with everyone else scoring for fun in front, or another shape for you?


IFFF YOU SMEEEEEEEEELLLLLL WHAT THE POCH. IS.
COOKIN


:D
TL;DR

This made me chuckle after a terrible day at work so coupled with the result, thank you! :)
 

EmperorKabir

SC's Resident Legend
Dec 8, 2004
5,278
846
I'm not fan. It's good when you want to be defensive but I struggle to see why we need two holding mids when we have 3 CBs already. It means we are left with only 2 AMs to provide any creativity.

We get the choice to be that defensive if we want to, maybe in a cup tie we're leading by 2 goals in for example. The new players add this new flexibility and most of the time we'll just be improving on an already great wingback system and mainly be heavily attacking against most teams with only the one holding mid.
 

EmperorKabir

SC's Resident Legend
Dec 8, 2004
5,278
846
3-2-3-1 is only 9 players ;)

It really wasn't a new formation today though...we regularly played with Dier at RCB and Wanyama in CDM. We interchanged between 5-2-2-1 (or 3-2-2-2-1) and 4-2-3-1. We couldn't play with three CBs against Burnely (without using Wimmer/CCV), because Sanchez hadn't arrived and Wanyama was injured.

When we signed Wanyama, Dier was freed up from CDM to join a back three. Now that we also have Sanchez, Dier is freed up to either play in defence or midfield (or neither), as Poch sees fit, so we can be more flexible again.

I think the difference is Sanchez looks far more confident that far back than Dier does. Dier was playing wonder balls to Alli in his first season for us before he was called upon to go even further back. Would be great to see him get those going with more regularity again. Everyone playing in their happiest positions.
 

ohtottenham!

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2013
7,501
13,042
Hi you lot. I've not posted on here in possibly years! -waves at older members-.

What do you lot reckon our best shape is now? I'm thinking mainly from the back. When we got Sanchez, there was a little part of me that looks back to why we've succeeded last season and I put it mainly down to great management by The Poch on developing the attacking wingbacks. By having a truly ridiculous trio of talent in the Belgians and Hugo who by themselves are a solid defensive unit, it gave the wingbacks freedom to push up and become our wingers and crossers. This in turn allows our attacking players to amble out with freedom in the middle section of the forward third and play a total football style attack, overwhelming our opponents and leading us to a second place finish.

So now, Sanchez came in and I thought... well.. we've been using Dier perhaps a little bit too defensively. Sanchez could go in a back 3 with Toby and Jan, allowing a solid defensive line, then allowing our wingbacks to attack a little more without panicking quite as much about running back to defend, which in turn makes them less tired. But when they do have to defend, we essentially have 5 at the back plus Hugo, PLUS any defensive or holding mids we have in front coming back in Dier, Moussa and Victor. On top of all this, due to the added amount our wingbacks can stay a bit further forward, our attacking players are crowded into the middle and can focus their energy on making forward runs instead of spreading larger distances around the park. And The Poch only went and did it, first game back from the break! :) :)

I'm not saying it's a drastic change; it's subtle, but it can make the difference in a lot of games on the odd extra chance defending or attacking, AND it allows us to change our shape which is what we have been limiting ourselves on so far.

The new 3-2-4-1 (the 2 being wingbacks who join any of the other lines) shape is epic, all hail The Poch. But if need be, we can go to a 4-4-2 just to mess with opposition tactics or a 2-2-5-1 or even 2-2-6 (yeah I realise I'm breaking it down a lot there lol and remember the 2 wingbacks move around between them; I'm not suggesting ridiculous hard structured formations). Plus Llorente is an option if we want 2 upfront just for giggles. We finally seem to have a squad!

Oh and to top it off, I'm writing this off the back of a 3 0 away win at Everton, but we had Sissoko on and imagine when we get Aurier in, who if it all works out, keeps his nose clean, defends like Walker with fewer mistakes, and crosses like Trippier, and Rose, who, annoying though his comments have been earlier, was epic for the few games he played for us last season. We'd seriously hold contention with some truly elite sides.

So guys,

the new Sanchez in at the back with Toby and Jan, who looks like a faster slightly weaker version of Ledley, with Aurier and Rose being lethal on the sides, and 1 or 2 of Moussa, Dier and Victor in front with everyone else scoring for fun in front, or another shape for you?


IFFF YOU SMEEEEEEEEELLLLLL WHAT THE POCH. IS.
COOKIN

:D
Great post! I saw what you saw. Basically the options that Sanchez can provide, especially with an Aurier/Rose WB pairing, means space opens up all over the park, and we can tailor our formations accordingly, depending on who we're playing.

We'll have pace and attacking threats from WB flanks and central positions too. It'll give our AMs and forwards the space in transition against good teams, and stretch the bus-parker defences too.
 

ClonedFromSandrosBeard

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2014
181
417
It's very Bielsa - 3-3-3-1 - with Dier holding and Eriksen as the enganche. It could work but I foresee Dembele being used as the right sided AM and Dele as the left sided.
I don't know, that too me seems very lacking in (here it comes...) pace and we'd be a bit stifled.
 

spids

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2015
6,647
27,841
I thought our defensive shape was almost identical to last season's when we mainly played 3-4-2-1.
 

GetSpurredOn

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2006
5,022
8,922
I don't see the 5221/3421 is as defensive as some suggest, because it's ultimately a back three, not a back 5, as the fullbacks/wingbacks are generally more like wide midfielders they are that high up the pitch. I think it's the formation that suits us best, and almost becomes a 343 with Eriksen and Alli playing in and around Kane.
Sanchez gets to learn some game craft inbetween two high calibre and experienced defenders, whilst being coached by a former international centre back. Foyth will get the same benefit, albeit maybe with less minutes.
As the season wears on, I can see Poch returning to rotating his fullbacks weekly, such is the output demanded of them, and we're in a position to have the class options to do that. As soon as any pick up a knock or suspension, which will happen at some point, Walker-Peters versatility means he comes straight into the mix.
Dier and Wanyama provide two terrific options as DM, plus either can drop into CB if required. Winks should continue to understudy Dembele as the CM, albeit a slightly different type of player. I'm looking forward to Onomah returning to join that crop. Sissoko has shown he can be an option too.
The return of Lamela and having Son, gives us ideal depth in those AM areas, Lamela more Eriksen'esqu in terms of technique, vision and workrate, then Son brings some dynamism. Then finally Llorente should give us that focal point for the others to play off, as and when Kane101 is rested. I'm also hopeful Nkoudou can show a bit of something, as he does have genuine pace.

The depth is starting to look a lot better, that's where we fell down a bit last year, we knew our first XI was as good as anyone, but now we're starting to look like we have less of a fall off in calibre when bringing in alternatives.

Lloris
Alderweireld, Sanchez, Vertonghen
Aurier, Dier, Dembele, Rose
Eriksen, Alli
Kane

Subs - Vorm, Trippier, Davies, Wanyama, Winks/Lamela, Son, Llorente
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,277
57,636
Aurier will make us even more impressive at the back although I must say that I'm really looking forward to seeing Trippier and Llorente on the same pitch.
 

GetSpurredOn

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2006
5,022
8,922
Watched the highlights this morning, and Davies seemed to spend a lot of time very high up the pitch.
 
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