Andre Gomes

[yanno]

I live in Spain and Valencia is the team I follow here. I have watched all Gomes' matches for Valencia in la Liga (10 of them live at Mestalla), all his matches in Europa league and all the matches he played in Champions League. So around 70 matches all together + around 20 matches for Portugal.

And he is NOT a playmaker. He is a ballmover; someone who makes easy simple passes (mostly sideways or backwards). For Valencia in La Liga he averaged around 55 passes a match and out of that around 7 forward passes a match.

Here is a very typical match for Gomes for Portugal:

Interesting observations and video. Thanks. Gomes looks tidy, but not much more in that video - even if it is much better than his dire Barca showings.

Given that Grealish played the second half of the season as the creative CM in a midfield 3, proving that he can play deeper in CM and not just as a 10, I'm not sure why we're looking to sign Gomes as well.

ITK has said we're keeping Wanyama, and Dier is obviously staying. So that's the DM / destroyer role covered. As the more creative passer, we've got Winks coming back and ITK has suggested Grealish is close. Onomah also wants to prove himself in pre-season,and his best position is as a CM with a licence to surge forward..

So, assuming Dembele goes and some kind soul takes Sissoko off our hands, if we play with a CM2, we still have squad depth.

If we switch to a CM3, then we have:

DM Dier, Wanyama
Creative CM Eriksen, Winks, Grealish
Box to Box CM Dele, Grealish, Onomah

I don't think Gomes will be cheap, IIRC Barca was looking for 40m plus a buyback clause last summer. So, I would be happier with Martial and de Ligt as the big money signings unless a Kovacic or a Rabiot becomes available to throw into that midfield mix.

Plus Gomes' confidence is completely shot by his terrible time at Barca, so he'll need games to get that confidence back. But Winks (after a year out with injury) and Grealish (moving from the Championship to the PL) will also need game time, and none of them will be first choice. And Onomah would need another loan to get competitive football if we're that overloaded with CMs.

All a bit mysterious.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Okay, now you're both just trying to mess with me. As someone who knows very little indeed about non-English league football, would someone please just let me have a peek at the crib-sheet and tell me what the correct answer to the "Is this lad any good?" question is, please?

There won't be a correct answer as people are split. Have you tried the youtube route? Maybe a tekkers vid or three and see how he takes you?

 

[scat1620]

There won't be a correct answer as people are split. Have you tried the youtube route? Maybe a tekkers vid or three and see how he takes you?

 

[Donki]

Potch must see something that we need in him. I'm not confident, peeps who know him on here don't seem enamoured.

I've been looking at his time at Valencia, he was pretty good there. He is one of those players like Carrick and Modric , where you don't always see what he does. I just want a midfielder who can move the ball quickly one and two touch stuff. Ovbviously not on their level.

 

[dtxspurs]

We didn't spend a fortune on Vic for a start and we bought Davinson after a pretty long and drawn out negotiation. Spurs/Levy still did what was best and different ends of paying for a transfer. They added to a team that had talent. They've done that again adding a player in Lucas Moura in the January transfer window.

Not sure we have lacked in the transfer window, more a case of continuing to build a squad.

Gomes comes under that similar sort of transfer. He just doesn't fit the bill for some people because of [enter your reason here]

Not sure what the long and drawn out negotiation has any part in this. I'd say we've absolutely lacked in the transfer window when in the span of 2 seasons we've added 2 players that are no doubt fit for the squad and the level we are playing at and hoping to get to. That is honestly poor. Sure we've built the squad with some bodies but they haven't really brought anything of value to the team so far in a consistent nature.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Oh right ...

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Not sure what the long and drawn out negotiation has any part in this. I'd say we've absolutely lacked in the transfer window when in the span of 2 seasons we've added 2 players that are no doubt fit for the squad and the level we are playing at and hoping to get to. That is honestly poor. Sure we've built the squad with some bodies but they haven't really brought anything of value to the team so far in a consistent nature.

That's how Spurs work though. How long have you been following them for because you'd have a grasp on this. The blueprint hasn't changed in how many windows? It's not about to be changed totally right now on the cusp of moving into a new stadium.

 

[St José Dominguez]

How I feel about transfers is quite dependant on what formation we're going to be playing.

I'm really starting to agree with others that it'll be a 3 in midfield with Dele - Dier - Eriksen being first choice. If that's the case then my expectations on the level of CM will be reduced as there's no way we'll be spending 40-50m on someone who won't be seen as first choice. I like Grealish and I'll be pleased with that signing, Gomes I'm not so sure about. However if they're both backup options along with Winks and rotation options too, all of which are much more suitable than Sissoko then I guess it's positive.

I'm struggling to understand our budget and split of spend though, and I hope if we are spending less on central area due to new formation that we will be spending huge on a first choice attacking player as otherwise I'll look at the team and not really think we've strengthened.

 

[dtxspurs]

That's how Spurs work though. How long have you been following them for because you'd have a grasp on this. The blueprint hasn't changed in how many windows? It's not about to be changed totally right now on the cusp of moving into a new stadium.

I've been following every game I could catch since 2012. I know this is how its always worked, but things are clearly changing. I'm basing my posts on this forum on the fact of what ITK has told us and how things logically could happen. We clearly have at least 100mil to spend gross at the very least. Can't imagine we go less than what we did last year especially with what should be a significant amount of money coming in with sales. I'm the guy who thinks we should buy a top CM and a top Toby replacement and think we're fine outside of that, sure throw in a striker if we see fit or just keep Llorente/Janssen/promote a youngster if we think they are up to the task.

I don't see the point of throwing more darts at the wall in CM just to see if we can get one to stick. We went cheap on fast wingers in back to back windows in Njie & Nkoudou and it bit us in the ass and took another year and a half to get it right and buy a proven player in Lucas Moura. Now we've done it with striker most recently, Janssen and Llorente cost more than the price we originally balked at for Batshuayi and look where thats gotten us where he's gone and shown his true ability at Dortmund. I see the exact same scenario happening here with CM. Stop dicking around and go out and get it right first.

 

[tottenhamlad]

I can’t pretend I’ve ever knowingly watched him, but the fact is he must have been very very good for Valencia for Barca to go out and sign him.

We don’t all rate Paulinho because he never did it in the premier league for us but he’s definitely got something, you don’t play every game for Brazil and play for one of the best teams in Europe if you are uselss.

Let’s trust this is what Pochetinno wants and get behind the lad if he signs. It’s only a few years ago every big club was looking at him for ridiculous money.

Surely this is what the ITKs meant when they said we would need to be creative. It’s taking a risk but it may just pay off.

PS. How good is Harry’s Kane! Love Love Love him! Entire pub tonight singing he’s one of our own! ?

 

[DCSPUR]

did i miss this youtube from Valencia days over the last 20 pages?

can see why there is interest...

 

[Vitur15]

I've been following every game I could catch since 2012. I know this is how its always worked, but things are clearly changing. I'm basing my posts on this forum on the fact of what ITK has told us and how things logically could happen. We clearly have at least 100mil to spend gross at the very least. Can't imagine we go less than what we did last year especially with what should be a significant amount of money coming in with sales. I'm the guy who thinks we should buy a top CM and a top Toby replacement and think we're fine outside of that, sure throw in a striker if we see fit or just keep Llorente/Janssen/promote a youngster if we think they are up to the task.

I don't see the point of throwing more darts at the wall in CM just to see if we can get one to stick. We went cheap on fast wingers in back to back windows in Njie & Nkoudou and it bit us in the ass and took another year and a half to get it right and buy a proven player in Lucas Moura. Now we've done it with striker most recently, Janssen and Llorente cost more than the price we originally balked at for Batshuayi and look where thats gotten us where he's gone and shown his true ability at Dortmund. I see the exact same scenario happening here with CM. Stop dicking around and go out and get it right first.

Tottenham often have to "see if we can get one to stick" simply due to there not being a readily available, currently world class CM on the market. Plus, if any players do fit that description they will probably attract the interest of United/City/Madrid/Barcelona/PSG/etc which complicates things even further. I swear, people seem to assume that if (for example) we matched Lazio's asking price for Milinkovic-Savic he'd be a Tottenham player within hours. It just doesn't work like that and negotiations take forever because of those factors.
Also yeah, signing Nkoudou/Njie didn't work out. But did it "bite us in the ass"? No. Show me one club who hasn't had a completely failed transfer in recent times, us taking the occasional ~10m punt on a high ceiling/low floor player is fine. Sure, it's frustrating when it doesn't work out but the Sissoko/Soldado type of transfer is what we need to avoid the most. I'm fine with transfers like Nkoudou/Njie not working out because sometimes transfers like that do work out (I'm looking at you, Dele and Dier).
Batshuayi thrived at Dortmund (for less than half a season tbf) because he played consistently. He wouldn't have gotten that game time with us, playing the "what if?" game is pointless. Didn't Batshuayi choose Chelsea over us anyway?

tl;dr : improving our current first team is difficult because the few players that could improve our first team tend to also be coveted by many other big clubs. Transfers at this level are not as simple as matching an asking price and wage demands.

 

[dtxspurs]

Tottenham often have to "see if we can get one to stick" simply due to there not being a readily available, currently world class CM on the market. Plus, if any players do fit that description they will probably attract the interest of United/City/Madrid/Barcelona/PSG/etc which complicates things even further. I swear, people seem to assume that if (for example) we matched Lazio's asking price for Milinkovic-Savic he'd be a Tottenham player within hours. It just doesn't work like that and negotiations take forever because of those factors.
Also yeah, signing Nkoudou/Njie didn't work out. But did it "bite us in the ass"? No. Show me one club who hasn't had a completely failed transfer in recent times, us taking the occasional ~10m punt on a high ceiling/low floor player is fine. Sure, it's frustrating when it doesn't work out but the Sissoko/Soldado type of transfer is what we need to avoid the most. I'm fine with transfers like Nkoudou/Njie not working out because sometimes transfers like that do work out (I'm looking at you, Dele and Dier).
Batshuayi thrived at Dortmund (for less than half a season tbf) because he played consistently. He wouldn't have gotten that game time with us, playing the "what if?" game is pointless. Didn't Batshuayi choose Chelsea over us anyway?

tl;dr : improving our current first team is difficult because the few players that could improve our first team tend to also be coveted by many other big clubs. Transfers at this level are not as simple as matching an asking price and wage demands.

I'm well aware there are other clubs that are looking for top talent. Like I said in a previous post, I'm basing this off ITK telling us our recruitment team was to match with any club out there and we could compete with Pool, Chelsea, Arsenal on wages, fees, etc.

United have already bought their midfielder for the summer, City are after Jorginho, Madrid would have a player we could go after that may leave, who the hell knows whats going on at Barcelona now a days with their transfers and PSG are in FFP hell and having to seemingly offload players which we've taken advantage of. I'm not saying we can attract the same level of talent but we should be trying and not settling this early in the window. If we've tried for every player we can afford out there and we strike out on all fine but I'd be really disappointed if we don't even try to aim for better, more proven players in central midfield.

 

[Vitur15]

I'm well aware there are other clubs that are looking for top talent. Like I said in a previous post, I'm basing this off ITK telling us our recruitment team was to match with any club out there and we could compete with Pool, Chelsea, Arsenal on wages, fees, etc.

United have already bought their midfielder for the summer, City are after Jorginho, Madrid would have a player we could go after that may leave, who the hell knows whats going on at Barcelona now a days with their transfers and PSG are in FFP hell and having to seemingly offload players which we've taken advantage of. I'm not saying we can attract the same level of talent but we should be trying and not settling this early in the window. If we've tried for every player we can afford out there and we strike out on all fine but I'd be really disappointed if we don't even try to aim for better, more proven players in central midfield.

I'm just struggling to think of a proven first team quality CM on the market right now. We weren't going to beat United to Fred or City to Jorginho, anyone who thinks so has lost it. People always jump to "oh we're settling for players already wtf" like we can't go after more than one transfer target at once. Focusing all of your attention on your first choice option is not a great business move, it's smart to negotiate for the first/second/third choice at the same time because you won't be left scrambling late in the window (something Levy is criticized for every year) if your first choice target joins someone else.

 

[dtxspurs]

I'm just struggling to think of a proven first team quality CM on the market right now. We weren't going to beat United to Fred or City to Jorginho, anyone who thinks so has lost it. People always jump to "oh we're settling for players already wtf" like we can't go after more than one transfer target at once. Focusing all of your attention on your first choice option is not a great business move, it's smart to negotiate for the first/second/third choice at the same time because you won't be left scrambling late in the window (something Levy is criticized for every year) if your first choice target joins someone else.

I don't disagree either that its smart to have ones in the back pocket but we've been told from ITK that we're going to get "cute" or "creative" at the CM position. How else are we supposed to react when thats all we've been told?

 

[Vitur15]

I don't disagree either that its smart to have ones in the back pocket but we've been told from ITK that we're going to get "cute" or "creative" at the CM position. How else are we supposed to react when thats all we've been told?

It's possible there just isn't a proven cm on the market that Poch feels is a good fit. Off the top of my head I can't think of any available players like that that fit what we need in a cm. If that's the case it's either get "cute"/ "creative" when signing a cm this window or just don't sign any cm this window (which would be a fairly big issue because Dembele's likely gone plus Winks' injuries).
Poch clearly wants any player we sign to have a certain type of personality and it wouldn't shock me if there aren't any top class proven midfielders available that fit what Poch wants/what the team needs. I don't want us to sign players Poch doesn't want so it may come down to getting "creative" this window and seeing who is available in January/next summer, which would admittedly be kinda a bummer but imo it's better than the alternative.

 

[allatsea]

It does seem mostly sideways and backwards, but he never seems to hold onto the ball for too long like Dembele does and I like that. Could get us about the pitch quickly to catch opponents out of shape.

Rather like Carrick ?

 

[Espen Mowinckel]

Confidence. The magic word. Without it even the best player in the world can look shit. Put Gomes in the right invorement and he could be a shrewd signing.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Confidence. The magic word. Without it even the best player in the world can look shit. Put Gomes in the right invorement and he could be a shrewd signing.

Exactly. Remember Bale in late 08/09 / early 09/10? He looked slow, had a heavy touch and couldn’t beat a man. Fast forward just a couple of months and he was terrorising every right back he came up against. Michel Salgado still has nightmares.

 

[JonnySpurs]

You could say the same to everyone who is claiming he was great at Valencia. Lets be honest, nobody on here has watched him extensively so none of our opinions will be accurate.

There's nothing to claim about his time at Valencia, he absolutely was excellent which is why he got signed by Barca in the first place.