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Andre Gomes

Keefo

Active Member
May 13, 2018
337
718
There's nothing to claim about his time at Valencia, he absolutely was excellent which is why he got signed by Barca in the first place.
They also signed Paco Alacer,Digne,Delofeu and clissen..guess we should be after them aswell?
 
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BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
They also signed Paco Alacer,Digne,Delofeu and Paco Alacer..guess we should be after them aswell?
Alcacer was one of the highest rated young players in Spain and had already broken into the national team (unless you think anyone can rock up into the Spanish squad).
Digne was one of the highest rated young left backs on earth.
They already owned Delofeu in reality due to the buy back clause, and needed to supplement the home grown contingent as their youth system isn’t producing as much these days.
 

danny32

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2004
649
3,272
We are aspiring to be in the top 6-8 clubs in the world, the time has come where we shouldn't be signing failed cast offs from our peers. It's all well and good saying Poch will turn him around but there is no guarantee. I would rather we scout and gamble on up and coming talents for a considerably less transfer fee and reserve the bulk of our transfer kitty for the established star who will be now gettable with our CL profile and substantially increased income.
 

Keefo

Active Member
May 13, 2018
337
718
Alcacer was one of the highest rated young players in Spain and had already broken into the national team (unless you think anyone can rock up into the Spanish squad).
Digne was one of the highest rated young left backs on earth.
They already owned Delofeu in reality due to the buy back clause, and needed to supplement the home grown contingent as their youth system isn’t producing as much these days.
You totally missed my point there.I meant just because Barca buys a player doesn't mean we should still go after him.
Also paco Alacer has never scored more than 13 goals a season,Digne was never the highest rated full back in the world and was always bought to play second fiddle.
 

JonnySpurs

SC Veteran
Jun 4, 2004
5,345
12,398
You totally missed my point there.I meant just because Barca buys a player doesn't mean we should still go after him.
Also paco Alacer has never scored more than 13 goals a season,Digne was never the highest rated full back in the world and was always bought to play second fiddle.

For goodness sake. Nobody was saying that we should sign players cos Barca did so maybe you shouldn't be putting words in people's mouths to fit your agenda.

I said that he absolutely was good at Valencia which is why Barca signed him. They don't sign average players that have been playing poorly.

Barca spent a huge sum of money on him, way more than they should have but it doesn't change the fact that AT THE TIME, he was playing incredibly well and had raised his profile to the point where he garnered interest from one of the best clubs in the world, who then chose to sign him.

I didn't say anything about why this means that we should be signing ex-Barca players, you made that up in your own head.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,957
I don't know too much about him but with the crop of midfielders we had last season (I include dembele in that), would he get into our first XI ahead of any of them?
 
D

Deleted member 27995

I've been following every game I could catch since 2012. I know this is how its always worked, but things are clearly changing. I'm basing my posts on this forum on the fact of what ITK has told us and how things logically could happen. We clearly have at least 100mil to spend gross at the very least. Can't imagine we go less than what we did last year especially with what should be a significant amount of money coming in with sales. I'm the guy who thinks we should buy a top CM and a top Toby replacement and think we're fine outside of that, sure throw in a striker if we see fit or just keep Llorente/Janssen/promote a youngster if we think they are up to the task.

I don't see the point of throwing more darts at the wall in CM just to see if we can get one to stick. We went cheap on fast wingers in back to back windows in Njie & Nkoudou and it bit us in the ass and took another year and a half to get it right and buy a proven player in Lucas Moura. Now we've done it with striker most recently, Janssen and Llorente cost more than the price we originally balked at for Batshuayi and look where thats gotten us where he's gone and shown his true ability at Dortmund. I see the exact same scenario happening here with CM. Stop dicking around and go out and get it right first.
The ITK have also said we'll do the bulk of our business in the last few weeks of the transfer window, which is still how Spurs work. The key word in all of this is building and Spurs are continuing to do just that. No matter what you or I want, the blueprint and the way in which Spurs work in the transfer market is there for all to see. I can see it changing in the future, but not at the rate some of you want right now.
 

KILLA_SIN

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2008
7,812
14,452
We are aspiring to be in the top 6-8 clubs in the world, the time has come where we shouldn't be signing failed cast offs from our peers. It's all well and good saying Poch will turn him around but there is no guarantee. I would rather we scout and gamble on up and coming talents for a considerably less transfer fee and reserve the bulk of our transfer kitty for the established star who will be now gettable with our CL profile and substantially increased income.

I think that is pretty much what we are doing, Gomes is 24, If in either case that there is no guarantee that a player will make it or not it is probably still better to gamble on a younger player that hasn't quite made it Barca than spend the same equivalent amount of money on a player that is 21-22 who is very much unproven. What we pay for Gomes will be not much different to a player in Lige 1.
 

Wheeler Dealer

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
6,863
12,282
Exactly. Remember Bale in late 08/09 / early 09/10? He looked slow, had a heavy touch and couldn’t beat a man. Fast forward just a couple of months and he was terrorising every right back he came up against. Michel Salgado still has nightmares.
That was Bale, this is about Gomes, who comparing with Bale is an insult.
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
Signing the current in form player who is the flavour of the month is no guarantee to him succeeding.

Pogba was a world record transfer two years ago yet since then 90% of his performances have ranged from passable to disappointing, with the odd great game and the odd disaster.

David Bentley, Soldado, Paulinho, Lamela, all expensive signings who were current internationals coming off the back of great seasons.

Much more goes into deciding whether or not we sign someone that their recent form. It’s a factor, but so is temperament, team fit, potential, what skill sets we lack, injury record, age, etc etc.

We lack a bit of imagination and craft in the middle, and are potentially losing Dembele. Gomes is a young central midfielder who has vision, pace, a bit of a dribble, a lot of technique and uses the ball quickly. Modric he may not be, but he’ll do a lot more in our centre than our current crop, especially if we are moving to 433. He may need to improve his resilience and work rate, but the same could be said of a 24 year old Modric or Iniesta.

By 20 he had started in a Europa league final for Benfica in his breakthrough season, and made himself a first choice as they won the domestic treble, including Benficas first league title in four seasons. By 22 he’d made himself on of the best central midfielders in Spain after 2 brilliant seasons for Valencia. By that age Modric had not yet left Croatia and Carrick had just been relegated with West Ham and his progression massively stunted. Hell, one of the best playmakers of the last two decades, Riquelme, was older when he joined Barcelona (24), and he was a huge failure.

Midfielders are a different breed. They take a bit longer to really evolve, they are far more affected by the side around them and their performance depends largely on how good a rapport they develop with their teammates, something only game time can achieve.

I’m not saying that this guy will definitely improve our midfield, I’m saying that if we as a club have identified him as having the requisite tools to complement our current crop, give us that central guile we are lacking and mesh we with our other top players, then it will be based on far more than a failed Barcelona stint.
 

GetSpurredOn

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2006
5,022
8,922
Was Van der Vaart playing fantastically well week in week out for Real when we signed him? No. He was out of sorts due to not getting regular football, he was unwanted by Real. We got him in, and he got his mojo back, proved to be an astute signing.
Does Gomes fall into the same bracket, I'm not certain yet, but if our coaches and scouts feel they can get him back to his Valencia form, then so be it. I don't think he'll fetch top dollar given his circumstance, but given he's only 24, doesn't appear to have any injury issues, it's just a case of restoring confidence. He's a big athletic CM with a decent left foot, so should fit in nicely on the left hand side of a CM 3 if that's the way we go. Not got Dembele level strength, but equally not lightweight, and perhaps has is more productive going forwards than Dembele.
If he can be got for around £20m, I think he'll be an astute signing.

The ITK from herc suggested our signings would show a shift in playing setup, so maybe Gomes and Grealish are being bought in to provide options on the wider roles in a CM 3, either side of Dier/Wanyama. Losing a touch of power with Dembele gone, but gaining some additional creative edge, which should allow Dier for instance to just focus on shielding, and reduce the need for him to try to be over ambitious. Equally, those that feel Eriksen's creativity can be a bit blunted when playing deeper, having another creative option alongside him should actually free him up more.

Eriksen - Dier - Gomes

Grealish - Wanyama - Winks/Onomah​
 
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JonnySpurs

SC Veteran
Jun 4, 2004
5,345
12,398
Signing the current in form player who is the flavour of the month is no guarantee to him succeeding.

Pogba was a world record transfer two years ago yet since then 90% of his performances have ranged from passable to disappointing, with the odd great game and the odd disaster.

David Bentley, Soldado, Paulinho, Lamela, all expensive signings who were current internationals coming off the back of great seasons.

Much more goes into deciding whether or not we sign someone that their recent form. It’s a factor, but so is temperament, team fit, potential, what skill sets we lack, injury record, age, etc etc.

We lack a bit of imagination and craft in the middle, and are potentially losing Dembele. Gomes is a young central midfielder who has vision, pace, a bit of a dribble, a lot of technique and uses the ball quickly. Modric he may not be, but he’ll do a lot more in our centre than our current crop, especially if we are moving to 433. He may need to improve his resilience and work rate, but the same could be said of a 24 year old Modric or Iniesta.

By 20 he had started in a Europa league final for Benfica in his breakthrough season, and made himself a first choice as they won the domestic treble, including Benficas first league title in four seasons. By 22 he’d made himself on of the best central midfielders in Spain after 2 brilliant seasons for Valencia. By that age Modric had not yet left Croatia and Carrick had just been relegated with West Ham and his progression massively stunted. Hell, one of the best playmakers of the last two decades, Riquelme, was older when he joined Barcelona (24), and he was a huge failure.

Midfielders are a different breed. They take a bit longer to really evolve, they are far more affected by the side around them and their performance depends largely on how good a rapport they develop with their teammates, something only game time can achieve.

I’m not saying that this guy will definitely improve our midfield, I’m saying that if we as a club have identified him as having the requisite tools to complement our current crop, give us that central guile we are lacking and mesh we with our other top players, then it will be based on far more than a failed Barcelona stint.

Outstanding post!
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
That was Bale, this is about Gomes, who comparing with Bale is an insult.

Missing the point ever so slightly...

All I’m saying is that if a player as phenomenal as Bale can look bad when his confidence is down, anyone can. And this hasn’t just happened to the young Bale we had, it’s also happened to Bale in the last couple of seasons where at times he’s been barely recognisable from the boy who ended Maicon’s career as a top right back.
 

JonnySpurs

SC Veteran
Jun 4, 2004
5,345
12,398
Was Van der Vaart playing fantastically well week in week out for Real when we signed him? No. He was out of sorts due to not getting regular football, he was unwanted by Real. We got him in, and he got his mojo back, proved to be an astute signing.
Does Gomes fall into the same bracket, I'm not certain yet, but if our coaches and scouts feel they can get him back to his Valencia form, then so be it. I don't think he'll fetch top dollar given his circumstance, but given he's only 24, doesn't appear to have any injury issues, it's just a case of restoring confidence. He's a big athletic CM with a decent left foot, so should fit in nicely on the left hand side of a CM 3 if that's the way we go. Not got Dembele level strength, but equally not lightweight, and perhaps has is more productive going forwards than Dembele.
If he can be got for around £20m, I think he'll be an astute signing.

Great shout. We're rolling now fellas.

I'm honestly not bothered if some of our fans want to cry into their cereal cos we're not signing some "world class" CM. I've watched Gomes, I KNOW he's a talented CM and I have every faith that Poch will help to realise his potential.
 

jay2040

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,636
4,165
I started reading this thread getting progressively more and more annoyed as people were bitching and moaning that we could sign a player like Andre Gomes.

Besides the fact that it's horrendously disrepectful to a player that hasn't even signed for us yet, I would bet good money that 99% of the people moaning have NEVER seen him kick a ball, let alone watched him a full game.

Thankfully, @BringBack_leGin rescued the situation and set a few people straight with accurate, actual knowledge of a player that I like very much and would be a very good addition to our squad.

Gomes has had a rough time in Barcelona, he joined for a huge fee off of the back of being absolutely brilliant for Valencia at a very young age. The managerial situation chopped and changed during his time and he just wasnt able to establish himself in midfield that contained Iniesta, Busquets and Rakitic amongst others. As I said last summer, you don't get signed by Barcelona if you're some 2-bit, cart horse midfielder that should be playing for West Ham - as some on here seem to think. He has fantastic ability and just needs to get back to a situation that suits him better and allows him to re-establish what made him one of the highest rated CM's in world football when he was only 21 years old.

Honestly, the snobbery on this forum is out of control at times.

Snobbery in a spurs forum. That's outrageous! Hope you written to your MP!
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
You totally missed my point there.I meant just because Barca buys a player doesn't mean we should still go after him.
Also paco Alacer has never scored more than 13 goals a season,Digne was never the highest rated full back in the world and was always bought to play second fiddle.
Re Alcacer... I made not mention of his goals, only his reputation and that he’d broken into the Spain squad very young.

Re Digne, I said ONE OF THE, not The. Big difference. And he was. Barca signed him because yes, he’d deputise for Alba but also because he had potential to displace Alba. It’s not exactly proof of being poor if someone struggled to get game time ahead of a player of Alba’s quality.
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
Outstanding post!
Sadly will be ignored/ twisted by those who just want an excuse to say “Papa Levy isn’t buying me the toys I asked for, he got me a scrabble board because it would benefit me long term when I really wanted a PS4 and FIFA 18 so I could brag my mates’’
 

JonnySpurs

SC Veteran
Jun 4, 2004
5,345
12,398
Sadly will be ignored/ twisted by those who just want an excuse to say “Papa Levy isn’t buying me the toys I asked for, he got me a scrabble board because it would benefit me long term when I really wanted a PS4 and FIFA 18 so I could brag my mates’’

Haha! Totally agree.

It becomes less about the actual player and more of an excuse just to hold it against Levy cos it's not the "big name" even though we know we can't afford that player anyway.

The only reason I even try to argue about the qualities of the player like Gomes is to try and help those that actually aren't sure about him. I don't them to be swayed by the negative rhetoric that is being spewed by a few people that are probably only happy when they're complaining about something.
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Oct 1, 2005
8,958
28,086
If we are being cute and saving bundles of cash signing Grealish and Gomes who Poch feels he can improve and do a job for us this is great news as long as the money we saved is then spent on that one big attacking signing that we desperately need. We can't spend big on every position we need.
 
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