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Andre Gomes

allatsea

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
8,865
16,053
If we are being cute and saving bundles of cash signing Grealish and Gomes who Poch feels he can improve and do a job for us this is great news as long as the money we saved is then spent on that one big attacking signing that we desperately need. We can't spend big on every position we need.
Why is there this obsession with spending big money ? Why can’t we be happy if we unearth another gem like Alli ?
 

mill

Well-Known Member
May 21, 2007
10,385
37,100
Haha! Totally agree.

It becomes less about the actual player and more of an excuse just to hold it against Levy cos it's not the "big name" even though we know we can't afford that player anyway.

The only reason I even try to argue about the qualities of the player like Gomes is to try and help those that actually aren't sure about him. I don't them to be swayed by the negative rhetoric that is being spewed by a few people that are probably only happy when they're complaining about something.

Or, god forbid, they have a different opinion to you
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,232
57,387
Great shout. We're rolling now fellas.

I'm honestly not bothered if some of our fans want to cry into their cereal cos we're not signing some "world class" CM. I've watched Gomes, I KNOW he's a talented CM and I have every faith that Poch will help to realise his potential.


Thinking about our current crop I can't think of a player that Poch hasn't improved. He's even getting some decent stuff from Sissoko. If he can rebuild Gomes confidence he'll be a cracking player. It would be a massive 'fingers crossed' signing though.
 

Lily White Lady

Active SC Stalker
Jan 2, 2015
299
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Gomes may not have been the marque signing I was hoping for but he will certainly add another dimension to the squad. And if it means we’ve sured up the midfield with Dembele going and saved some funds to make a marque signing in another position that Poch feels is more valuable then I’m all for it. Easy to spend £50m + these days on bang average midfielders having a decent season. I think he might prove to be a very astute signing and potentially one of those we roll out and celebrate Levy’s bargain hunting skills in a couple of years. Time will tell but I’d welcome him to the club.
 

hellava_tough

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2005
9,429
12,382
If he's paired with Dier or Wanyama, then Gomes won't have to worry too much about breaking up play and getting 'stuck-in'.

What he'll need to do is start pinging balls about the pitch and getting attacks moving quickly once we've recovered possession.

Not only does he have the ability to do this, he will be working with a group of forwards who possess pace and great footballing brains, to get in behind the defence. This will make his job easier.

So overall, he will be a great addition to the squad.

Obviously the transfer fee will have an impact on the overall value of the deal, but just by going on talent alone this guy will make our squad better.

With regards to his mentality, we've already heard from the ITKs that he is eager to join, which would indicate his state of mind is positive currently. There's also the Poch factor and the rest of the lads seem to welcome newcomers; that isn't necessarily true with Barca, who are a bit 'cliquey'.

Obviously, it's a bit frustrating if the ITK says we're going up a level in our transfer dealings, but instead continue to buy 'bargain-players'. However, there are two separate arguments there; (i) evaluating a specific player and (ii) evaluating our transfer policy/dealings.

I suspect people on here are conflating these two arguments, because Gomes on paper is actual a pretty decent signing.
 

Hakkz

Svensk hetsporre
Jul 6, 2012
8,196
17,270
If we are being cute and saving bundles of cash signing Grealish and Gomes who Poch feels he can improve and do a job for us this is great news as long as the money we saved is then spent on that one big attacking signing that we desperately need. We can't spend big on every position we need.

Yeah, and we are still waiting to see that big attacking signing. Until he is revealed, well..
 

hellava_tough

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2005
9,429
12,382
Btw, the only concern I'd have with signing Gomes is if we bring him in to be a squad player

I get the impression he's a 'confidence player' who needs to have a key role in the team

At Barca he was a sub a lot of the time and also his position used to chop and change; that's not great for a young guy trying to break into a side

But if he is starting every game, where does that leave Harry Winks?

Personally, I think we could start both Winks and Gomes in the same midfield, especially against the 'bus-parkers'. Plus injuries, tiredness, etc, will take their toll over the season. So I think there'll be enough room for both of them over the course of a 55+ game season
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,232
57,387
If he's paired with Dier or Wanyama, then Gomes won't have to worry too much about breaking up play and getting 'stuck-in'.

What he'll need to do is start pinging balls about the pitch and getting attacks moving quickly once we've recovered possession.

Not only does he have the ability to do this, he will be working with a group of forwards who possess pace and great footballing brains, to get in behind the defence. This will make his job easier.

So overall, he will be a great addition to the squad.

Obviously the transfer fee will have an impact on the overall value of the deal, but just by going on talent alone this guy will make our squad better.

With regards to his mentality, we've already heard from the ITKs that he is eager to join, which would indicate his state of mind is positive currently. There's also the Poch factor and the rest of the lads seem to welcome newcomers; that isn't necessarily true with Barca, who are a bit 'cliquey'.

Obviously, it's a bit frustrating if the ITK says we're going up a level in our transfer dealings, but instead continue to buy 'bargain-players'. However, there are two separate arguments there; (i) evaluating a specific player and (ii) evaluating our transfer policy/dealings.

I suspect people on here are conflating these two arguments, because Gomes on paper is actual a pretty decent signing.


I think it will take time to integrate Gomes if we sign him, primarily because our front players movement off the ball isn't that dynamic. They are used to watching Dembele take on 4 players or Dier playing a speculative long ball a lot of the time. Gomes will come good if he can develop and understanding with the likes of Dele, Son, Moura and Kane, but it won't happen overnight. Gomes has a great passing range which we're not really used to at the moment.
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
Or, god forbid, they have a different opinion to you
It’s nothing to do with differing opinions, it’s about growing weary of seeing posters using every thread, every piece of itk, every ‘underwhelming’ reported transfer target as an excuse to berate our chairman despite the fact that his methods have grown us from being a mid table club to being a club who boast some of the world’s best footballers and are qualifying for the champions league every season. It’s borimg, it’s insccurate, it’s childish and it’s pathetic.

Nobody would be more excited than me to see us sign one of the world’s most celebrated names, it would be amazing, but I’m able to detach myself from such vanities and see the evidence I’m fromt of me, that our patient and methodical approach has seen us grow unrecognisably from the club ENIC bought, without spending the GDP of a small country, and that there is literally not one reason to change the blueprint.
 

JonnySpurs

SC Veteran
Jun 4, 2004
5,345
12,398
Or, god forbid, they have a different opinion to you

Ah yes, this old classic. Good one!

In reality though it's about people writing off a player that they know very little about, if anything at all. If somebody came on here, having watched lots of the player and felt that he wasn't any good then that's fine. I take no issue with that because people having differing opinions on players is a common thing and as long as they can back up their criticism with evidence of actually having seen the kid kick a football then who am I to say that's wrong. I could disagree because I rate him but I wouldn't get annoyed by it.

As far as I can see there are a number of fans getting all bent outta shape because Andre Gomes isn't the superstar name that they're after so that means that a Levy is wanker for not backing Poch or things are supposed to be different this summer etc etc, blah blah.

It's boring and just smacks of fickle BS from fans that haven't taken the time to inform themselves about a player before slating him on a forum - THAT is what I can't tolerate.
 

chinaman

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2003
17,974
12,423
It’s nothing to do with differing opinions, it’s about growing weary of seeing posters using every thread, every piece of itk, every ‘underwhelming’ reported transfer target as an excuse to berate our chairman despite the fact that his methods have grown us from being a mid table club to being a club who boast some of the world’s best footballers and are qualifying for the champions league every season. It’s borimg, it’s insccurate, it’s childish and it’s pathetic.

Nobody would be more excited than me to see us sign one of the world’s most celebrated names, it would be amazing, but I’m able to detach myself from such vanities and see the evidence I’m fromt of me, that our patient and methodical approach has seen us grow unrecognisably from the club ENIC bought, without spending the GDP of a small country, and that there is literally not one reason to change the blueprint.


What an excellent post. Alas, you also suffer from pure fantasy, as I'm not sure if we can bring back le Gin, he'll be a Poch favourite.
 

dtxspurs

Welcome to the Good Life
Dec 28, 2017
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It’s nothing to do with differing opinions, it’s about growing weary of seeing posters using every thread, every piece of itk, every ‘underwhelming’ reported transfer target as an excuse to berate our chairman despite the fact that his methods have grown us from being a mid table club to being a club who boast some of the world’s best footballers and are qualifying for the champions league every season. It’s borimg, it’s insccurate, it’s childish and it’s pathetic.

Nobody would be more excited than me to see us sign one of the world’s most celebrated names, it would be amazing, but I’m able to detach myself from such vanities and see the evidence I’m fromt of me, that our patient and methodical approach has seen us grow unrecognisably from the club ENIC bought, without spending the GDP of a small country, and that there is literally not one reason to change the blueprint.
But I mean, something does need to change. Since we've become a champions league squad we've only bought 2 nailed on contributors. One a player Poch had already worked with and the other our record signing one of the biggest prospects in world football. Our squad is that damn good now that those cheap type of singings aren't getting the playing time they require to grow and find a role. Thats the issue here with those types of signings. Janssen needed to play week in and week out to grow as a player, same with Nkoudou, Sissoko just not technically good enough to play at our level..

Thats my opinion here not that this style hasn't worked for us but that our players are literally too good for those guys to even get playing time anymore, its exactly why it was so hard to find time for youth players this year like KWP. We should be going for quality over quantity.
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
But I mean, something does need to change. Since we've become a champions league squad we've only bought 2 nailed on contributors. One a player Poch had already worked with and the other our record signing one of the biggest prospects in world football. Our squad is that damn good now that those cheap type of singings aren't getting the playing time they require to grow and find a role. Thats the issue here with those types of signings. Janssen needed to play week in and week out to grow as a player, same with Nkoudou, Sissoko just not technically good enough to play at our level..

Thats my opinion here not that this style hasn't worked for us but that our players are literally too good for those guys to even get playing time anymore, its exactly why it was so hard to find time for youth players this year like KWP. We should be going for quality over quantity.
I agree and disagree. Yes, it is far harder for a player to break in such is the quality of our squad, but by the same token there are only so many players who would genuinely improve us, and we must accept still that those players will be coveted by richer clubs still. So we have option 1. Sign the 2nd tier player who we can develop as early as possible, with a lower fee, or option 2. Go balls out for the stellar signing only to be kept at arms length till the end of the window when he/ his agent is sure nobody richer will give him a bigger contract, and in the meantime the 2nd tier player joins a smaller club, becomes a top tier player by the end of next season, and again is out of our reach because we still have less money / brand than the biggest clubs.

We are still at a time in our development that we are, partly by design party by misfortune, at best able to attract the players who are 6 - 18 months away from being at the same level as our best players. The thing is, this window we are likely to have a Dembele shaped hole to fill, so whoever we sign for that spot will have the game time and exposure to become good enough, unlike Janssen/ Nkoudou. Plus, our coaches biggest MO is to improve players, and we’ve seen enough evidence that he can. Whether Gomes, Grealish or someone else unknown to us is the answer is down to our scouts and manager, so the pressure here this summer isn’t to sign the ready made product, it’s to correctly assess which player will quickly match, and eventually better, what Dembele has provided for so long (in quality I mean rather than in style).

The fools will continue to cry ‘Levy is stingy, Levy has no ambition, Levy is holding us back’, and they will continue to be wrong.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
42,333
77,592
Well we haven't signed a world class player under Poch yet so not sure why people expect us to do so now. The players who could be considered World Class were developed to that level by Poch (Eriksen/Kane/Vertonghen). They certainly didn't come in at that level. So why people expect us to change this philosophy now I don't know. Poch loves making greatness not buying it otherwise he would be at Real Madrid now.

I think when Poch said we need to take risks this window he means signings like Gomes and Grealish. Spending £100m on a superstar player isn't all that risky because they're already world class (this is what Mourinho does). Players who are not top players but young enough to develop are the risks he wants to take. He doesn't want Levy to hesitate too much but pull the trigger and get them in before we miss out.
 

dtxspurs

Welcome to the Good Life
Dec 28, 2017
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Well we haven't signed a world class player under Poch yet so not sure why people expect us to do so now. The players who could be considered World Class were developed to that level by Poch (Eriksen/Kane/Vertonghen). They certainly didn't come in at that level. So why people expect us to change this philosophy now I don't know. Poch loves making greatness not buying it otherwise he would be at Real Madrid now.

I think when Poch said we need to take risks this window he means signings like Gomes and Grealish. Spending £100m on a superstar player isn't all that risky because they're already world class (this is what Mourinho does). Players who are not top players but young enough to develop are the risks he wants to take. He doesn't want Levy to hesitate too much but pull the trigger and get them in before we miss out.
Why would he come out and say we need to be brave and take risks if that means just doing what we've been doing?
 

mill

Well-Known Member
May 21, 2007
10,385
37,100
Ah yes, this old classic. Good one!

In reality though it's about people writing off a player that they know very little about, if anything at all. If somebody came on here, having watched lots of the player and felt that he wasn't any good then that's fine. I take no issue with that because people having differing opinions on players is a common thing and as long as they can back up their criticism with evidence of actually having seen the kid kick a football then who am I to say that's wrong. I could disagree because I rate him but I wouldn't get annoyed by it.

As far as I can see there are a number of fans getting all bent outta shape because Andre Gomes isn't the superstar name that they're after so that means that a Levy is wanker for not backing Poch or things are supposed to be different this summer etc etc, blah blah.

It's boring and just smacks of fickle BS from fans that haven't taken the time to inform themselves about a player before slating him on a forum - THAT is what I can't tolerate.



How many posters are calling levy a wanker? I can’t see many a lot seem unhappy about the prospect of signing Gomes but if that’s their view then that’s their view.

If you can’t tolerate that maybe you shouldn’t take this forum so seriously
 

hellava_tough

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2005
9,429
12,382
I think it will take time to integrate Gomes if we sign him, primarily because our front players movement off the ball isn't that dynamic. They are used to watching Dembele take on 4 players or Dier playing a speculative long ball a lot of the time. Gomes will come good if he can develop and understanding with the likes of Dele, Son, Moura and Kane, but it won't happen overnight. Gomes has a great passing range which we're not really used to at the moment.

I definitely agree that it will take Gomes a little while to integrate. This is the same with all players, but especially those who are integrating into 'Poch's system'.

With regards to movement off the ball you could be right, although perhaps we're actually better than we realise, but haven't had the opportunity to show it because of Dembele and Dier in the centre.

I guess we'll find out.
 

heelspurs

Le filet mignon est un bastion de rosbif
Jul 25, 2012
4,270
5,105
For goodness sake. Nobody was saying that we should sign players cos Barca did so maybe you shouldn't be putting words in people's mouths to fit your agenda.

I said that he absolutely was good at Valencia which is why Barca signed him. They don't sign average players that have been playing poorly.

Barca spent a huge sum of money on him, way more than they should have but it doesn't change the fact that AT THE TIME, he was playing incredibly well and had raised his profile to the point where he garnered interest from one of the best clubs in the world, who then chose to sign him.

I didn't say anything about why this means that we should be signing ex-Barca players, you made that up in your own head.
What you are missing is Barca was panic buying coming out of their TW sanction. Many players have since come out and complained about the leadership purchasing poorly in and around this time. This is partly why they were held to ransom by Mendes for that high fee. They then went back in for Alcacer and were bent over again by Mendes who was upping his Monaco Gambit with Valencia at the time.

I am not against Gomes as he is a competent MF. His recent troubles and representation by Gestifute are causes for concern. I follow Valencia in La Liga and have done since early Emery. I dispute these glowing/excellent reviews of Gomes' time there. He was a promising player of which they have had many during that time. When he went to Barca he was nothing more than what would have been a decent Spurs' transfer. Mendes had his hooks in Valencia at the time and engineered his Valencia loan, then decent-money Valencia purchase (did money actually change hands? Valencia was very broke at the time), and subsequent big-money Barca xfer like he did with many a player after their Euro exploits. And like Gomes all have under-performed at their new clubs.

As I said I am not against this as Poch may be able to put an arm around him and he could be very useful. He is talented beyond anything we have in MF currently. I just his history being revised beyond what it actually was. He was a promising young player that hasn't made the step up. We should move forward with caution as it would bring Mendes under our tent. If Gomes performs well he will be pushing for a move next year.
 
D

Deleted member 27995

Why would he come out and say we need to be brave and take risks if that means just doing what we've been doing?

The interview in full is here -

https://www.football.london/tottenh...hettino-time-risks-vertonghen-latest-14652533

I think Daniel is going to listen to me of course. You know me, maybe sometimes I have crazy ideas. You need to be brave. In these types of situations, with a club with our unbelievable fans, being brave is the most important thing and take risks. I think it's a moment that the club needs to take risks and try to work if possible harder than the previous season to be competitive again because every season will be worse and will be more difficult.

He prefaces the above though with this ...

It's so important to have a strategy to explain, to show of course, the club is going to be ambitions, but sometimes we need to operate in a different ways to others. The fans need to know what we are going to do, the fans need to feel the reality of the club and we need to tell the truth and create an expectation that we can achieve. You cannot create dreams, thinking that we are not going to achieve them. We need to create dreams that will be possible to achieve. Of course the ambition of the club will be to win. Now maybe we are a little bit disappointed and frustrated because now we are close. But that is the first step, to be close, challenge the big sides, the sides that invest more than us and we need to try to find a way.

and -

We cannot think that we are the most clever people in the world because we are going to win trophies, spend money. We need to think that our reality is different and our fans need to think and be happy and support us because we are not this type of club that is going to invest crazy money. And all together we need to feel that we are a special club. If we are able to create that feeling that anything is possible in football. We need to be fans and us on the same page, working hard to try to develop the best work, and deliver the best work in trying to win what other clubs are winning.

So can we stop cherry picking the 'Brave' line and take it for what it was ...
 
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