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Are we now a big club and one of the worlds richest

Hoops

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2015
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Agreed, but it goes deeper than that very often.

Sadly, you have to be able to read and understand balance sheets as well as P&L accounts to understand how rich a company is, and I’ve never yet seen a report in a newspaper or anywhere else that does that properly. Most of the financial reporting we see, even (or especially) the Deloittes tables, is laughably superficial.

As an accountant, id say i know a thing or two about that. The deloitte money report tells you enough with turnover and wages to turnover to make a decent assumption on how rich a club is.

most clubs use 50% as a guideline.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
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Agreed, but it goes deeper than that very often.

Sadly, you have to be able to read and understand balance sheets as well as P&L accounts to understand how rich a company is, and I’ve never yet seen a report in a newspaper or anywhere else that does that properly. Most of the financial reporting we see, even (or especially) the Deloittes tables, is laughably superficial.

You'd know more than me lz.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
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As an accountant, id say i know a thing or two about that. The deloitte money report tells you enough with turnover and wages to turnover to make a decent assumption on how rich a club is.

most clubs use 50% as a guideline.

:playful:
 

Led's Zeppelin

Can't Re Member
May 28, 2013
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As an accountant, id say i know a thing or two about that. The deloitte money report tells you enough with turnover and wages to turnover to make a decent assumption on how rich a club is.

most clubs use 50% as a guideline.

Yes, I expect you do.

But wouldn’t you agree that most people don’t, and like so many things, simple assumptions are oftenspread more easily than the truth, and especially in things like football can create unrealistic expectations. Like the sort of thing we’ve seen in the last couple of days, with people saying they expect an increase of 20% in ticket prices to be reflected in a 20% increase in transfer fee expenditure otherwise we’ve been ripped off.
 
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Hoops

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2015
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Yes, I expect you do.

But wouldn’t you agree that most people don’t, and like so many things, simple assumptions are oftenspread more easily than the truth, and especially in things like football can create unrealistic expectations. Like the sort of thing we’ve seen in the last couple of days, with people saying they expect an increase of 20% in ticket prices to be reflected in a 20% increase in transfer fee expenditure otherwise we’ve been ripped off.

No. All football clubs have the same type of costs and revenues. So its pretty easy to determine the clubs budget using ratios.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
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No. All football clubs have the same type of costs and revenues. So its pretty easy to determine the clubs budget using ratios.

Most clubs are not building a new stadium though.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
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Its not difficult to work out a ball park figure how much it will cost each year.

We don't know how much it will cost total, how much we have already paid, what interest rate both short term and long, how long we have to pay off the debt, so how can we work out how much it would cost each year?
 

Hoops

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Mar 15, 2015
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We don't know how much it will cost total, how much we have already paid, what interest rate both short term and long, how long we have to pay off the debt, so how can we work out how much it would cost each year?

Ball park
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
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Ball park

It's a genuine question hoops. We might have to pay £200m in the first 2 years then the rest spread over 20. Or it could all be spread. Short term interest could be anything from 2-7%. How do you work out what cost the stadium will be next season? Even if it is a ballpark it could be a massive difference.

You may know more than me (you probably do) so could you explain what the ballpark is and how you came to the conclusion?
 

fortworthspur

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2007
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It's a genuine question hoops. We might have to pay £200m in the first 2 years then the rest spread over 20. Or it could all be spread. Short term interest could be anything from 2-7%. How do you work out what cost the stadium will be next season? Even if it is a ballpark it could be a massive difference.

You may know more than me (you probably do) so could you explain what the ballpark is and how you came to the conclusion?

5 year loan of 400 million from 3 banks announced last May to finance.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...eal-to-help-finance-new-stadium-a3553746.html

so assuming 5% interest (I pulled that out of the air) thats about 52 million interest, or 452 million we owe over 5 years.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
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fortworthspur

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2007
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Cheers. Do we know if the payoff we made in December was part of this deal or another? Or if we will need further financing will be required for phase 3?

We know that the £800m figure is outdated as levy told the supporters trust that the costs had risen.


dunno. the Standard article says Spurs have already spent 340 million on the project before the loans, but it doesnt say if any of that was financed as well.

I feel like Levy has it well covered. He's hoping for 20 million a year in naming rights, and there will be money from the NFL games. What I dont know is if any of the revenue from the rest of the Northumberland Development Project will flow into Spurs coffers but I suspect some will. In short, there should be a lot more income from the project than just the extra gameday receipts.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
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dunno. the Standard article says Spurs have already spent 340 million on the project before the loans, but it doesnt say if any of that was financed as well.

I feel like Levy has it well covered. He's hoping for 20 million a year in naming rights, and there will be money from the NFL games. What I dont know is if any of the revenue from the rest of the Northumberland Development Project will flow into Spurs coffers but I suspect some will. In short, there should be a lot more income from the project than just the extra gameday receipts.

Really hope levy can land a naming rights deal before the opening. Would be a massive boost financially.
 

Hoops

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2015
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5 year loan of 400 million from 3 banks announced last May to finance.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...eal-to-help-finance-new-stadium-a3553746.html

so assuming 5% interest (I pulled that out of the air) thats about 52 million interest, or 452 million we owe over 5 years.

Good research. Im pretty sure that we will take out a longer term loan once we have naming rights secured. No point doing it before then. Worst case scenario is 200m over 20 years. Best case is 400m over 20 years (naming rights).

My guess is the total loan will end up at about 15-20m a year to pay
 

Hoops

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Mar 15, 2015
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We can't be considered elite until we start to win some silverware.

I disagree. An elite club in my mind is one that challenges for the competitions it enters and signs top players.

We have challenged for the prem, and just about got to the latter stages of the CL. And thats before the cash injection that the new stadium brings.
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
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Is there crude ITK on the debt levels we will have, once the stadium build is complete?

Will a good naming rights deal service the debt payments ? (assuming no dramatic rise in lending rates)

Its not difficult to work out a ball park figure how much it will cost each year.

It's virtually impossible to work out a ballpark figure, because two key factors are historically subject to wild and unpredictable fluctuations; the residential property market and interest rates. The magnitude of the club's long-term borrowing depends on the former and the cost of its long-term borrowing depends on the latter.

We're going to have to reconcile ourselves to "I don't know" as an informed answer, until this shakes itself out about 5 years from now.

...mediums...

Death penalty!
 

kr1978

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
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markdadude

Well-Known Member
Oct 25, 2007
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I dont think you need to win actual trophies but you need to be there, consistently in with a shout for a decade or so. Obviously if you achieve that, just the law of chance means the trophies will come. Its mixing up cause and effect. Football is a game of ridiculously fine margins. After all there is only the domestic league and the biggest of them all, the CL, to be fought over by many more clubs than there are trophies to go around. Arsenal, the FA cup, and the catastrophe they are now is proof that nothing else matters. If spurs are genuine contenders to win a CL for the next 10 years but they somehow miss out by striking the wrong side of the post in game winning penalty it wont mean that we're not elite.

If you believe in beautiful things, like fairy-tale destinies as i do, then this spurs team is the beginning of something that will be be remembered long after its lifetime.

I'm Sick and tired of the repetitive mantra that you're nothing until you have the trophy - it's usually uttered by people who actually have nothing to say. Yes spurs have every chance of becoming elite. We have many exceptional players who are young or very young. It really hangs on whether they remain spurs player for years to come. That is beyond our control as fans. We can only sit here and talk about stupid amounts of money that appear to be the same currency as what we have in our very wallets, but sounds like a drunk game of monopoly. Its a fucking strange world we are all living in - not that I want to end on that point, but I just have.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
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Think you’ve got your maths a bit wrong there mate- 5 years of 5% interest in a 400m loan would be £100m just on the interest, not £52m (5% of 400m is 20m per annum).

It's all moot anyway as we don't know how much we've already paid off, what the interest actually is or if we will refinance the loan. But i'm bored so will give the math a go.

400 ÷ 5 = 80 so without interest we would be looking at paying £80m a year.
1st year interest as you say would be £20m
2nd year it would be 5% of £320m = £16m
3rd year it would be £12m
4th year it would be £8m
5th year it would be £4m

So it would total as £60m interest.
 
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