`Arry Out, Guus In For Tottenham...

[arnoldlayne]

To be honest there is very little in your post that I would disagree with.

In fact i remember some commentators saying United should have gone for Pleat like Spurs had! :razz:

I was just saying that in hindsight, even when deemed to be doing crap in the first 5 years, Fergie had still enough in his locker to win a couple of trophies.

The thing is he ( and consequently Manure) was lucky for 3 reasons - Cantona took his team to another level; Edwards failed in his financial shenaningans (trying to sell to Michael Knighton); the Premier league was created and gave them huge financial muscle (Spurs helped by donating them our financial advisor who took their marketing light-years ahead and Sugar aided the development of the premier league and then never took advantage of the potential for Spurs).

With Fergie's immense managerial skill and manure's new financial muscle they have really taken off. This has been aided by a lack of credible managerial adversaries until Wenger and Mourinho arrived.

Manure's problem will be two-fold :violin: - Fergie stepping down and the self-created financial mess they are in (although the Glazers have cleverly set it up so they can suck out funds and walk away when things go tit's up).

Our problem is that over the past 5 years we are finally starting to show the glimpses of potential a club of our size should be showing. However every body else is catching up (look at Everton today!). We also need to show things immediately.

HR has performed exactly as I thought he would. He has stabilised things and bought some decent players (although he was lucky in that Wigan finally allowed Palacios to leave and we persuaded him join us, in the position we tried to recruit Tiago, Diarra and Veloso to). I hope he has the skill and the luck to get us into Europe and hopefully win the FA cup (a mammoth task). However I think he is surrounded by too many cronies who really are dire assistants.

I don't really like HR (never have for over 20 years) but I don't see what available alternative we have now as every manager we could get will be a risk. We certainly won't get the big hitters like Mourinho and van Gaal and, er....

So we now have to wait and hope and see what develops. We haven't got any choice.

 

[StartingPrice]

The only reason(s) Mourinho would come to WHL are:
He claims to have been a fan when he was a kid (but that isn't gonna be decisive);
He wants to p*ss Abrhamovic off - now that really could come into play (he's a bit of a mentalist);
He wants to show that he could achieve what he did in the Prem. without the Ruskie millions;
He genuinely sees the potential that Dan Levy has been creating at the club.

All of these factors together (and some we couldn't guess at) could just about make it an outside bet that he may wash up at the Lane...but I ain't holding my breathe.

Personally, I am very ambivalent about 'Arry. I think he is funny (not in a 'stand-up routine' kinda way). I thought he was funny at Pompey, and at WetSpam. I will not be in the least bit surprised if further investigation discovered he had his hand in all kinds of pies. And his twitchyness is an endless source of amusement.

As I said, I could live with waking uo tomorrow and finding someone like Mourinho in charge. Other than that, leave it be, and let's see how far the man can take us.

 

[Dr Know]

As I said, I could live with waking uo tomorrow and finding someone like Mourinho in charge. Other than that, leave it be, and let's see how far the man can take us.

I too feel that Harry has done well but I'm now starting to think this is how far he can take us, just peeping over 7th at the europa spot :shrug:

 

[THOWIG]

I wouldn't want Mourinho anywhere near Spurs unless we want to fall asleep.

 

[Son_Of]

YEAR ONE 1986-87 11th
YEAR TWO 1987-88 2nd
YEAR THREE 1988-89 11th
===============================
back then a team could finish 2nd in between seasons of coming 11th. imagine that happening now!

 

[StartingPrice]

I too feel that Harry has done well but I'm now starting to think this is how far he can take us, just peeping over 7th at the europa spot :shrug:

But that isn't quite what I said. Infact it is not what I said at all. What I said was I really think it is way far too early for anyone to be saying 'see, I told you, that is as far as 'Arry could take us'. Way too early.

What I was saying was in recognition of the fact that in terms of competability managers like Mourinho are streets ahead of anyone we are likely to attract, unles we get very lucky. So, if someone of that quality took over at the Lane I could live with 'Arry leaving. Otherwise, (i.e. I really don't think it will happen), just leave well alone and actually, like, wait and see what 'Arry can achieve.

I wouldn't want Mourinho anywhere near Spurs unless we want to fall asleep.

1) I think Mourinho's borability has been greatly (or slightly) overestimated;
2) I could live with it for a few years if it genuinely met we had a chance of titles and competing at the business end of the wedge in the CL - come-on, get real, eh:wink:

 

[Luka Lennon]

YEAR ONE 1986-87 11th
YEAR TWO 1987-88 2nd
YEAR THREE 1988-89 11th
===============================
back then a team could finish 2nd in between seasons of coming 11th. imagine that happening now!

odds are the manager would get binned halfway through his third season

 

[senseispab]

Are you really though. It has been a topsy-turvy season, and everybody has dropped points, but we should be 10 points better off than where we are now. Foor the majority of the season our squad has been stronger than Arsenal's and Liverpool's.

Supporting Spurs at the moment is a complete lucky dip - like going on a blind date with a hottie but when you get home and peel her clothes off you discover she has saggy boobs.

C'mon.

Compared to when in Spur's recent history?

 

[Dr Know]

But that isn't quite what I said. Infact it is not what I said at all. What I said was I really think it is way far too early for anyone to be saying 'see, I told you, that is as far as 'Arry could take us'. Way too early.

As I said, I could live with waking uo tomorrow and finding someone like Mourinho in charge. Other than that, leave it be, and let's see how far the man can take us.

I'm now starting to think this is how far he can take us, just peeping over 7th at the europa spot :shrug:

This is the part that I was referring to

 

[StartingPrice]

This is the part that I was referring to

Good.

Now we've cleared that up I would just like to reiterate that I think 'Arry mat be able to take us better than "just peeping over 7th at the Europa spot" - i still believe 4th is achievable for this year. Not easy, not even likely, but achievable. As such, I really do feel it is far too early to call a final verdict on 'Arry's potential to progress the team and club.

 

[Delboy10]

What the club needs more than anything is stabillity. With the backing of the Board and the fans i really do believe that Harry and his coaching staff can take us to that 'next level'. Time and support is what's needed now. Lets at least wait and see where we are this time next year eh? We've been shit for over 20 years and people are expecting immediate success it seems.

 

[Dr Know]

Good.

Now we've cleared that up I would just like to reiterate that I think 'Arry mat be able to take us better than "just peeping over 7th at the Europa spot" - i still believe 4th is achievable for this year. Not easy, not even likely, but achievable. As such, I really do feel it is far too early to call a final verdict on 'Arry's potential to progress the team and club.

Now this is all your opinion which you are entitled to but you must also accept that as fans we are entitled to our opinions as to where we think Harry can, will or even have the potential to take us, so going on recent results and not taking into fact the 2 points from 8 games stuff, I think we will finish outside the Europa spot. Now this is from someone who thought at the start of the season that we could finish not 4th but above but the way Harry has thrown away games with his tactics and subs in our last handful of games its my opinion that if Harry can't get these right in our remaining games we will not finish anywhere near the 4th spot and if we're lucky we might just finish between 6th and 9th spot.

 

[StartingPrice]

Now this is all your opinion which you are entitled to but you must also accept that as fans we are entitled to our opinions as to where we think Harry can, will or even have the potential to take us, so going on recent results and not taking into fact the 2 points from 8 games stuff, I think we will finish outside the Europa spot. Now this is from someone who thought at the start of the season that we could finish not 4th but above but the way Harry has thrown away games with his tactics and subs in our last handful of games its my opinion that if Harry can't get these right in our remaining games we will not finish anywhere near the 4th spot and if we're lucky we might just finish between 6th and 9th spot.

Of course it is just my opinion and you are equally entitled to yours. I just find yours difficult to equate, is all. I mean, it's not like our competitors have been paragons of consistency is it (even United and Chelsea have dropped far more ponts than the two front runners normally would). Even league dominating teams like Liverpool of the 80s and United since have had bad runs. So, your whole argument is based on the facts that we've lacked consistenct (like our competitors) and had a run of poor form (like ALL clubs). Besides, 'Arry has never operated at this level and is entitled (nay needs) mistakes form which to learn. Add to that the fact that you are suggesting that he shouldn't be given the time and stability to take us further and show more progress as he has, er, taken us further (from the position he inherited) and shown progress...based on the fact that you, er, have a hunch.

I have never said we will finish in 4th, or even in a Europa spot, just that it is far too early to tell. And given that success needs stability (unless you can throw trillions at team building like Citeh), then, short of having a Ramos-esque start to next season, I would suggest that 'Arry has at least earned one more season to show whet he can do...and even that would only be his second year in charge.

 

[Dr Know]

Of course it is just my opinion and you are equally entitled to yours. I just find yours difficult to equate, is all. I mean, it's not like our competitors have been paragons of consistency is it (even United and Chelsea have dropped far more ponts than the two front runners normally would). Even league dominating teams like Liverpool of the 80s and United since have had bad runs. So, your whole argument is based on the facts that we've lacked consistenct (like our competitors) and had a run of poor form (like ALL clubs). Besides, 'Arry has never operated at this level and is entitled (nay needs) mistakes form which to learn. Add to that the fact that you are suggesting that he shouldn't be given the time and stability to take us further and show more progress as he has, er, taken us further (from the position he inherited) and shown progress...based on the fact that you, er, have a hunch.

I have never said we will finish in 4th, or even in a Europa spot, just that it is far too early to tell. And given that success needs stability (unless you can throw trillions at team building like Citeh), then, short of having a Ramos-esque start to next season, I would suggest that 'Arry has at least earned one more season to show whet he can do...and even that would only be his second year in charge.

My opinion is based on Harry's tactics m8 and like I said its based on our last handful or games. I would so like to be wrong on this and only time will tell. I do agree with the bold bit, only because he has shown he can do a good job its just keeping up with it that seems to be the problem. I support the club with all my heart and when its good I cheer and show my appreciation but also when its bad I voice my concerns :up:

 

[THOWIG]

[1) I think Mourinho's borability has been greatly (or slightly) overestimated;
2) I could live with it for a few years if it genuinely met we had a chance of titles and competing at the business end of the wedge in the CL - come-on, get real, eh:wink:[/QUOTE]

Sadly it isn't. His teams have always been very solid, dour teams to watch. His record is impressive, but most Inter fans I know wouldn't mind if he left. Says it all really, or are they as fickle as us? Probably.

 

[TopSpurMan]

Real Madrid and Chelsea do. :think:

common denominating factor - RM & chelski - common factors? buckets loads of cash - already top teams - so what are the common factors between them and spurs?

 

[AngerManagement]

When people focus on the games we should have won and the silly points we dropped they always seem to forget about the points we gained when maybe less was deserved or less was looking likely.

Against West Ham we played poorly, went behind and got a lucky backpass from Cole and a last minute winner to turn a potential loss into 3 points. Birmingham home was a last min win when seconds early they could have claimed the win (ok we dominated the match), we could have lost to Fulham away very easily and imo were lucky to claim a draw.

and so on etc.

Its a long season, ups and downs are expected for a team in our postion of growth. How can anyone expect a team that has had the recent history we have to suddenly become a team capable of playing great over the course of a whole season (especially when sufferring injuries to key players)

Yes we were a team recently that had established itself in top 5, but that team lost its manager its best players (some of) large numbers of its squad (after Ramos and DC depelted the numbers so heavily)

Each managerial change set us back and we had to start the building process again. When Redknapp came in we were a side heading towards the Championship and teh worst thing is it wasn't totally a case of us under performing we were actually that bad and weak, had no squad, no depth and a bunch of players who did not form any semblance of a team that could play effectively as a unit.

Redknapp had to rebuild and rebuild fast, he brougt players in to keep us up as quick fixes (this worked). In the summer we made some more signings to elevate us to a more capable team (plus we were playing better with time and gelling) The bar was very much raised by our great start and general positive form..expectations have become higher than our station again (as happens so easily with Spurs fans) and now many fans are unrealistically expecting us to maitain top 4 form without any blips or dips in form.

Injuries and the fact teams have decided we are strong enough to warrent them sitting deep and countering have changed the puzzle for us as a team. No longer are teams trading blows with us which allowed us to out gun them, as a new squad we have have struggled to find the answers sometimes, we lost key componets in Lennon and Modric as well as our first choice centre halfs.

We need to develop and learn to win ugly, learn to close games out when we are winning and learn to capatlise when we have good pocession but find chances hard to create (even more so when we are creating chances)

I don't understand the suprise, the signs were there from the start of this season. We were playing great and rolling over teams yet everytime we came up against an expienced top 4 side who knew how to win dirty and out muscle us, out fight, out psych us we came acropper (aside first game of the season) THESE THINGS COME WITH TIME.

We do need another two or three key signings to complete us, we are not ready to be a top top side yet, but we have come along way in a short time and are on an upward spirial. Harry has bought well and done a good job in my opinion.

Lets give the management and squad of players time to develop before we start getting cold feet and looking for more wholesales changes yea?!? In my opinion we should any how.

I still fully expect the next time we win 3 on the bounce the same fans bitching and moaning about everything will be calling for a late push for the title such is the nature of the fickle knee jerk fan.

 

[StartingPrice]

My opinion is based on Harry's tactics m8 and like I said its based on our last handful or games. I would so like to be wrong on this and only time will tell. I do agree with the bold bit, only because he has shown he can do a good job its just keeping up with it that seems to be the problem. I support the club with all my heart and when its good I cheer and show my appreciation but also when its bad I voice my concerns :up:

I know, Dr. KNow, I know eh::grin, what your opniion is based on. I just don't really agree with it, or not every aaspect of it in any case. Yiou call it 'based on our last handful of (sic.) games", I call it a bad run of games (or to be more precise, disappointing run of results). I add the last qualify, as I don't think our performances in some of these games were even that bad - in fact I think the performance against Villa was very good against a very good team, who naturally play a tight game, and, out of compliment top us, accentuated the natural tendencies of their game. And, as for tactics, whereas I have questioned some of 'Arry's decisions, I also think you can go over board about them - there was a whole thread on it, as I recall, and I read the thread (i'm quite through like that:wink. I agree with the rest, and I ain't by any means 100% convinced by Mr. RotKnopf, just think Spurs fans are being a little bit previous, A) in writing this season off before the fat <insert politically correct entity here> sings, or even gargles with the mouthwash; B) imagianing there is some supremely better position we could be in, which is itself borne of a failure to uderstand that there are no perfect players out there playing the perfect game, and definitely not when they get out on the pitch. I don't think any payer ever deliberately has a bad game (unless he has been nobbled by a gambling syndicatemg. And I don't think managers deliberately make bad decisions - and before you say, he does make bad decisions though, I would refer you to my previous post, he is on a learning curve at this level.

[1) I think Mourinho's borability has been greatly (or slightly) overestimated;
2) I could live with it for a few years if it genuinely met we had a chance of titles and competing at the business end of the wedge in the CL - come-on, get real, eh:wink:

Sadly it isn't. His teams have always been very solid, dour teams to watch. His record is impressive, but most Inter fans I know wouldn't mind if he left. Says it all really, or are they as fickle as us? Probably.[/quote]

Well, THOWIG, I think you have kinda missed the humour of my post. The idea of inserting the "or slightly" in brackets immediately after the "greatly" when qualifying the "boreability...overestimated" was by way of acknowledging that Jose does, indeed, produce supremely functional but hardly flair inspired teams. And should be read, really, i the context of the second post, i.e. I could live with that boreability for a few seasons if it gives us an impressive trophy haul and the ability to compete at the highest level - and then get someone in to work with the successful squad on the flair aspects - somerthing like Cloughie at The Damned Unitedmg:

 

[Luka Lennon]

[1) I think Mourinho's borability has been greatly (or slightly) overestimated;
2) I could live with it for a few years if it genuinely met we had a chance of titles and competing at the business end of the wedge in the CL - come-on, get real, eh:wink:

Sadly it isn't. His teams have always been very solid, dour teams to watch. His record is impressive, but most Inter fans I know wouldn't mind if he left. Says it all really, or are they as fickle as us? Probably.[/quote]



I completely disagree, Mourinho teams always have the ability to grind out results but like wise they always have pacey flair players with loads of technique and skill.

The whole Mourinho teams are boring is born out of jealousy over their achievements pure and simple.

 

[THOWIG]

Well we'll agree to disagree on this one. It's irrelevant anyway as Mourinho won't go to another London club.