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Arsenal: the wheels have fallen off

Vecellio

Member
Mar 13, 2007
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..and not just today i mean. Today they equalised on about 65 mins and for a while looked likely to score again to win it. Then Fabregas is bringing it out and then plays a poor speculative pass from which City regain posession, break quickly and make it 2-1. Arsenal look shot mentally and concede two more quick goals, one from Adebayor who celebrates rather obnoxiously. Consolation goal late for Rosicky.

Bottom line is it's a bad bad loss from a match they probably should have gone on to win. And a second bad loss in a fortnight in games they should have got at least something from, if not wins.
The mistakes and mental frailty seem all to clear. To me Fabregas today made the mistake that led directly to the loss, but he seems above criticism for some reason..(?) As an aside i thought Adebayor was a bit lucky to still be on the pitch, but anyway..

So why do i care, as a Spurs fan? Isn't it just more great fodder for Wenger's persecution complex and flimsy grasp on reality. Well...yes.
But...call this sacrilege but the Invincibles side of 2003/04 was a magnificent side. Match winners all over and mentally strong. (When one of your 'worst' players still plays in brazil's midfield you know you are doing ok). No, i'm not a closet gooner. But you have to admit that was a truly great side.
Shocking then to see how far they have fallen in the time since. Whilst still playing some great football at times it seems they have in a way become the new Spurs; soft centred and fragile if things don't go their way. It seems so obvious they need leaders and mentally strong characters. And a new keeper.
How can Wenger not see it?
 

SlickMongoose

Copacetic
Feb 27, 2005
6,258
5,043
Arsenal are still a very good team, unfortunately, but their fragile mental state means that they could go on a bad run. I think their losses to Utd and City can be put down to that.
 

deselina

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2006
2,607
126
some crucial decisions went against their way like the deliberate foul by adebayor on van persie which was a straight red and the hand ball in the box by barry.

arsenal are not as impressive without arshavin but the 4 - 2 was flattering since wenger took 3 defensive minded players off and was going all out.
 

Vecellio

Member
Mar 13, 2007
208
21
The point is we are seeing the reverse of 'a champion team playing badly but grinding out a win'. They're looking like the better team - but still losing. Bar a few players the team just doesn't have the mental fortitude to win week in week out.
Once Fabregas buggers off to Barca it's gonna be even worse. It's a lot more than 'just a bad run' imo.
 

deselina

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2006
2,607
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they've lost away to manchester united and manchester city.

one is manchester united,

and the other is city who they've lost against 3 out of the last 4.

when arshavin gets back they will be fine again, you can't count them out after these 2 losses when they had 2 impressive wins prior to that.

with the luck that chelsea had today i can see them winning the epl with a margin.
 

Vecellio

Member
Mar 13, 2007
208
21
*sigh*..I am not talking about just these two games. It seems that dominance (over us) by the arse for years really has resulted in an inferiority complex and some Spurs fans overrating them.
It's a more general decline over several years where Wenger has refused to address basic issues eg. getting in a commanding defensive midfielder and a better keeper. I know that as a Spurs fan we're not supposed to write them off but i don't actually care about the rivalry all that much, plus i like their general play a lot.

But as a general football fan looking at it objectively the decline from what Wenger used to have is real and it is obvious. They used to punch at or above their weight, now they punch well below it. Squad quality compared to results i mean.

Arshavin adds a crucial element of directness to them but a top quality striker needless to say doesn't address the defensive and mental issues.
 

spursandbarca

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2008
3,972
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they have no leaders when it gets tough they get found out. wait for a couple of injuries as well, they have no depth.
 

spurslenny

I hate football
Nov 24, 2006
7,543
6,519
when the likes of fabrigas and asharvin start to question the direction and transfer policy of the club, then the wheels will really start to come off.

their mentality is probably even more fragile than ours, IMO.
 

Vecellio

Member
Mar 13, 2007
208
21
Well as i say the direct rivalry doesn't matter to me that much anymore, probably because they have been doing a lot better than us for years now.

Looking at it objectively though, we are moving forward as a club on the pitch whilst they seem to be treading water at best.
Of course, if and when Modric leaves us we'll take a few steps back - no argument there.
EDIT: I am also not saying their decline is irreversible either. A few key signings and they would be a much better balanced side. That is what makes it intriguing.
 

spursandbarca

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2008
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how many spurs players would get in their side???? in 2004 when they won the double maybe 0 is the answer. now...

gomes, King, lennon, palacio, modric, defor at least


thye dont have a leader. fabregas is their supposed leader, and in January or next June. whenever Laporta or rosell decide to spend the cash hes off. song and denilson massively overated. no proven 20 goalscorer. no target man. first 11 is ok wait and see how bad they are when senderos, fabianski, eboue have to play regulary due to injuries.

we get woodgate back it will make a huge difference as well
 

lishiyo

Still frustrated :(
Aug 24, 2008
2,368
1
No, l'Arse are still a much better team than us, they have individuals who are underrated and as a team are better than the sum of their parts. Their main issue is mentality and their tendency to go on inconsistent runs - looking brilliant when on song, followed by a few crap games. Manyoo and Chelski are both capable of recovering immediately and going back on their winning streak after an off day. Maybe the top 4 are weaker this season, but even after a crisis season for Arse last time, they finished comfortably ahead of Everton in fifth place.

That said, it's not a huge deal to lose to Manure and Shitty away, and it's not like l'Arse played poorly - imo they deserved to thrash Manyoo, and should've taken a lot more confidence from that game than their opponents. I think anyone, even title-winning teams, can easily lose both games. Manyoo had the poorest record (among the top 4) against the rest of the top 4 last season.

Similarly, I would say the same for us after losing to Manyoo. Yes, it was a poor performance. But it doesn't mean that we're now incapable of challenging for fourth on the basis of one performance. Let's not forget how awful Manyoo were against Burnley, or Liverpool against us and Villa. They are top four sides because they can recover immediately. So the question is whether we can bounce back against Chelsea; of course, that's a very difficult game, but I would look more at our performance rather than the result. We may not be capable of outplaying them if they're at their best, but at least we have to outfight them.
 

spursandbarca

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2008
3,972
446
as ive said. we have 6 players that even the neutral would say would get in their side.

Van Persie, arshavin, bendtner. neither one is a 20 goal a season man. if keane gets his act together we have 2 of them.

besides fabregas who is the leader? who in their current side besides gallas or fabregas has won **** all? Fabregas is gone whether its in january or June it remains to be seen..

I said at the start of the season we will finish ahead of them(arsenil). todays not so special performance does nothing to change my opinion.


I hate the fact that they dont even have 1 english player in their 1st 11. surely that isnt right. what does it say to the youngsters in their academy????
 

Vecellio

Member
Mar 13, 2007
208
21
No, l'Arse are still a much better team than us.
I don't disagree that they are still better than us and capable of some great play, although in my opinion they're a bit of a fair-weather side.

But i still say the long term project has gone astray for Wenger. He sees what he wants to see and is in denial over what is required imo. Which is good for us i suppose.

Talking about momentum from here though...who would be surprised if Rosicky picked up another serious injury, Fabregas went back to Spain, and/or Arshavin left or lost motivation..??

I can see why some people have gone 'meh' this thread thinking it's a knee jerk reaction. But bottom line is they're not gonna win the league this year. You can say that fairly certainly at this early stage, something you'd never have said 5-10 years back. That's a serious decline.
 

hooty

Active Member
May 18, 2008
148
146
They, like the other members of the top 4, are still capable of going on long unbeaten runs. And keeping clean sheets. And playing poorly and still winning. Something which we still have to learn.

This is a pretty big statement from Man City as well. Without Tevez or Robinho.
 

deselina

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2006
2,607
126
Van Persie, arshavin, bendtner. neither one is a 20 goal a season man. if keane gets his act together we have 2 of them.

van persie was their topscorer last year with 20 goals and 15 assists.

arshavin can get 20 goals for arsenal each season bar injuries. doesn't he have like 7 goals in 15 league games for arsenal?

as far as leaders go, fabregas, rvp and almunia are the obvious ones as their respective (vice-)captains but you can't count out the likes of gallas, eduardo, rosicky, silvestre and arshavin who are all experienced players.
 
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