Arsenal

coys200

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They're still one of the biggest clubs in the country. He'd definitely go there.
Yeah I don’t buy this Arteta would get leeway thinking. Arsenal fans expect to be challenging for the title let alone top 4. Otherwise what was the point of the emirates. 10 years from now with the NWHL if we were languishing in 6th I’d be furious and expecting better than a1st time manager with no experience no matter who he’d been studying under.This could a crucial period in their history. Honestly think Everton will get it right eventually. Leicester are rumoured to be spending big this summer. I think wolves will have a go. People think 6th is as low as they can go but if couple of those clubs get it right then they could easily be 8th before they know it.
 

hellava_tough

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My thoughts exactly but could they get him? or would he want to go there?
They're still one of the biggest clubs in the country. He'd definitely go there.
Yeah, have to agree that EH would go to Arsenal.

He'd double or triple his wages, he'd get to play in European football for the first time (I think), he'd get a bigger transfer budget, better stadium and facilities, better players to work with and he'd raise his global profile.

However, totally agree that the pressure would be far greater than anything he'd ever have experienced in the past. But he's going to have to make that step up at some point in his career, if he wants to be consider among the best managers.
 

hellava_tough

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Yeah I don’t buy this Arteta would get leeway thinking. Arsenal fans expect to be challenging for the title let alone top 4. Otherwise what was the point of the emirates. 10 years from now with the NWHL if we were languishing in 6th I’d be furious and expecting better than a1st time manager with no experience no matter who he’d been studying under.This could a crucial period in their history. Honestly think Everton will get it right eventually. Leicester are rumoured to be spending big this summer. I think wolves will have a go. People think 6th is as low as they can go but if couple of those clubs get it right then they could easily be 8th before they know it.
So many factors to consider, but for me the most crucial is how much money are the board willing to spend to rebuild the team?

It seems a bit crass to speak of success and rebuilding mainly in terms of spending power, but that's the reality of the situation...

...unless...

...you do what we did, which was steadily improve by buying and selling a stack of players over 13 years until we finally bought enough 'prospects', who turned into league-challenging players (Jan, Toby, Lloris, Alli, Eriksen, Kane, Dier, etc, etc).

We also had a HUGE!!! slice of luck with the way Kane turned out.

I can't remember the last time a PL team aquired a player with league goal stats of 21, 25, 29, 30 in consecutive seasons, FOR FREE!!!

Anyway, if Arsenal and their fans don't patiently embrace the ups-and-downs of a medium to long-term rebuilding project, they could be miserable for a while.
 

brendanb50

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They're still one of the biggest clubs in the country. He'd definitely go there.
Oh, don't get me wrong - a massive step up from where he is at present but he's built Bournemouth into a PL side from a club in administration. Since 2009 he's taken them on the most successful journey in their history, that club is where it is largely thanks to Eddie Howe and there must be a huge affinity there between him and his club. Not so easily parted by money alone in my opinion.

The real question for me is if someone like Howe feels like he's done all he can at Bournemouth - some will think he has but he'll know better. He also knows that him leaving Bournemouth would also bring a massive risk of them dropping and undoing a lot of excellent work so it is/will be a real dilemma if that happens.

As i said, he's the kind of manager i think they should be looking at but 1) i'm not sure they're an ideal club for many at the moment in terms of how much the manager will control things and how much faith/time will they get to change Wenger's setup and 2) how many of these managers are available? the links seem to be with very inexperienced options at the moment, which means they'll presumably get time to build/shape but may not have full control. Either way a club with their ambitions needs more experience IMHO.
 

Shadydan

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So many factors to consider, but for me the most crucial is how much money are the board willing to spend to rebuild the team?

It seems a bit crass to speak of success and rebuilding mainly in terms of spending power, but that's the reality of the situation...

...unless...

...you do what we did, which was steadily improve by buying and selling a stack of players over 13 years until we finally bought enough 'prospects', who turned into league-challenging players (Jan, Toby, Lloris, Alli, Eriksen, Kane, Dier, etc, etc).

We also had a HUGE!!! slice of luck with the way Kane turned out.

I can't remember the last time a PL team aquired a player with league goal stats of 21, 25, 29, 30 in consecutive seasons, FOR FREE!!!

Anyway, if Arsenal and their fans don't patiently embrace the ups-and-downs of a medium to long-term rebuilding project, they could be miserable for a while.
That's not luck, that's down to the foundations we put in with our coaching academy, training centre and hiring one of the best coaches for young players, we just got it right.
 
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Arteta seems a long shot. I liked him a lot as a player but who knows what sort of manager he'll be.
Well both Poch and Pep wanted him in their backroom teams, so he's obviously got something about him. Big difference being a coach and a manager though. I know he'll only be head coach at the Scum, but he'll have a lot on his shoulders.

The problem Arsenal have got is they've set up a lot of competing people in their new structure, which is great if things go well, but if they have a rough season, everyone will start covering their own ass and blame the other guy. Let's hope so anyway...
 

hellava_tough

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These days £50 mill buys 70% of VVD aka The Dutch Wall.
Agreed and it's a point that needs to be expanded upon

The Arsenal re-building process has come at probably the worst time for them, because in the last 2 seasons transfer fees have become incredibly inflated. You've got mid-table PL teams spending £20m to £30m on average players, with 'hot-prospects' costing £40m to £50m+ and established stars fetching £75m+

They're going to need to bring in 5 or 6 really good players at least, to challenge for the Top 4. You're talking £300m at a minimum, unless you can get some rough diamonds, but that's becoming more and more unlikely in the world of modern communications

I think the days of picking up a Vertonghen, Lloris or Alderweireld for under £20m a pop are nearly (or actually) gone

I will be fascinated to see what squad they start the season with and the fans reaction to it
 

hellava_tough

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That's not luck, that's down to the foundations we put in with our coaching academy, training centre and hiring one of the best coaches for young players, we just got it right.
I thought someone might say this :)

You're right, you have to put all the above in place, that's for sure. You have to be 'in it, to win it', so to speak.

But you also need a huge slice of luck to produce the very best in the world; the player in question has to have the right genetics to begin with, he has to have the right attitude, he has to be lucky with injuries, he has to have no truly unpleasant experiences in his life that will completely de-rail his progress, he has to be mentally strong enough to handle the ups and downs of elite-level sport.

If it were simply a case of the club set-up, then the likes of Madrid, Barcelona and Man Utd would be producing world-class talent from their academies 100% of the time and they would never need to dip into the transfer market at all.

In my mind, Harry Kane is the best number 9 in the world right now; there's a bit of good fortune in that fact.
 

Shadydan

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I thought someone might say this :)

You're right, you have to put all the above in place, that's for sure. You have to be 'in it, to win it', so to speak.

But you also need a huge slice of luck to produce the very best in the world; the player in question has to have the right genetics to begin with, he has to have the right attitude, he has to be lucky with injuries, he has to have no truly unpleasant experiences in his life that will completely de-rail his progress, he has to be mentally strong enough to handle the ups and downs of elite-level sport.

If it were simply a case of the club set-up, then the likes of Madrid, Barcelona and Man Utd would be producing world-class talent from their academies 100% of the time and they would never need to dip into the transfer market at all.

In my mind, Harry Kane is the best number 9 in the world right now; there's a bit of good fortune in that fact.
Then you might as well say Barca got lucky that Messi turned out the player that he is in that case you could probably say that Barca were lucky to have Busquets, Iniesta, Messi, Pique, Fabregas all come out of La Masia with the same reasons as to why Kane made it - you can make the case for any player who made it through youth academies playing at a high level and use your same logic you're using for Kane, that's not to do with luck. It's the whole point of creating these academies in the first place so that it gives players the best chance and places them in an environment to succeed.

I didn't say it's a simple case of setting up an academy, the training centre and the coaches have had a massive part to play in his transformation as well hence my point about the environment. Arsenal letting him go and Spurs taking a chance on him isn't down to luck, him being nurtured through the academy and sending him out on those loans so he grows up and matures isn't down to luck, it's made him the player that he is today, not selling or releasing him when it looked like he may not make it isn't down to luck, they're judgement calls we got right and we are reaping the benefits of it.
 
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nailsy

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Jul 24, 2005
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Agreed and it's a point that needs to be expanded upon

The Arsenal re-building process has come at probably the worst time for them, because in the last 2 seasons transfer fees have become incredibly inflated. You've got mid-table PL teams spending £20m to £30m on average players, with 'hot-prospects' costing £40m to £50m+ and established stars fetching £75m+

They're going to need to bring in 5 or 6 really good players at least, to challenge for the Top 4. You're talking £300m at a minimum, unless you can get some rough diamonds, but that's becoming more and more unlikely in the world of modern communications

I think the days of picking up a Vertonghen, Lloris or Alderweireld for under £20m a pop are nearly (or actually) gone

I will be fascinated to see what squad they start the season with and the fans reaction to it
I've seen £50M mentioned before, but there are a few places saying they'll have £200M to spend so we'll have to see which it is.

I still think that you can pick up a few bargains if you look hard enough. Gross at Brighton, Maguire at Leicester, Richarlason at Watford were all good deals. Arsenal have been linked with Evans for a while and he'd be someone who could come in and improve their squad for only a small outlay. It's going to be an interesting summer for them. They need to improve the squad, but they've also got some good youngsters coming through so it remains to be seen whether they give the kids a chance, or if they start investing again.
 

IfiHadTheWings

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Reports that Arteta has agreed to become scum manager, bold move but could be astute if he's as good as what is being mentioned, especially considering they are going for the head coach model rather than manager.
 

stevenurse

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Then you might as well say Barca got lucky that Messi turned out the player that he is in that case you could probably say that Barca were lucky to have Busquets, Iniesta, Messi, Pique, Fabregas all come out of La Masia with the same reasons as to why Kane made it - you can make the case for any player who made it through youth academies playing at a high level and use your same logic you're using for Kane, that's not to do with luck. It's the whole point of creating these academies in the first place so that it gives players the best chance and places them in an environment to succeed.

I didn't say it's a simple case of setting up an academy, the training centre and the coaches have had a massive part to play in his transformation as well hence my point about the environment. Arsenal letting him go and Spurs taking a chance on him isn't down to luck, him being nurtured through the academy and sending him out on those loans so he grows up and matures isn't down to luck, it's made him the player that he is today, not selling or releasing him when it looked like he may not make it isn't down to luck, they're judgement calls we got right and we are reaping the benefits of it.
Lucky they got hold of the right growth hormones...
 
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