Attacking purchases under Poch

[Streetspur77]

Pathetic that all the ENIC outers are coming out of the woodwork now after we lose to the greatest premier league team when they've been quiet pretty much throughout the poch era

 

[Hercules]

This post has turned from sublime to ridiculous.

 

[tiger666]

To me a billionaire is a billionaire. If you are so wealthy that you will never run out of money- and you own a football team on the cusp of greatness that would clearly be helped buy a relatively small (in the scheme of things) cash infusion-- one that could actually come to benefit you in the long run-- then why not do it? In for a penny, in for a Pound- right? I understand the idea of Spurs being run as a profitable business- one that remains firmly in the black, year after year- but wouldn't you (Joe Lewis) derive pleasure from being a true European (so therefore world) powerhouse? I don't think it would be that hard (or cost that much) to do this! Yes we would have to tweak our vaunted "wage structure" but so what? Is that really such a Pandora's box that once opened we'd be firmly on the road to doing a Leeds? And if so, why aren't Liverpool doing a Leeds?

We are a London club with an increasingly growing worldwide profile. If we keep this up (if we keep winning/playing in the Champions league/etc.) then there will be a whole generation of kids that will support us because we will be seen as the "cool" team (as opposed to merely being Ars*nal's ugly kid sister and Chelscum's bitch). My point is that NOW is the time to reach into the billionaire bank account and up the ante a bit. We don't have to be City but we also don't have to be conservative, unimaginative, forever-last-minute-deal-making Spurs. Hell, shittier teams than us manage to acquire exciting offensive talent- why is it such a rarity with us?

Have a drink, it's christmas.

 

[daryl hannah]

To me a billionaire is a billionaire. If you are so wealthy that you will never run out of money- and you own a football team on the cusp of greatness that would clearly be helped buy a relatively small (in the scheme of things) cash infusion-- one that could actually come to benefit you in the long run-- then why not do it? In for a penny, in for a Pound- right? I understand the idea of Spurs being run as a profitable business- one that remains firmly in the black, year after year- but wouldn't you (Joe Lewis) derive pleasure from being a true European (so therefore world) powerhouse? I don't think it would be that hard (or cost that much) to do this! Yes we would have to tweak our vaunted "wage structure" but so what? Is that really such a Pandora's box that once opened we'd be firmly on the road to doing a Leeds? And if so, why aren't Liverpool doing a Leeds?

We are a London club with an increasingly growing worldwide profile. If we keep this up (if we keep winning/playing in the Champions league/etc.) then there will be a whole generation of kids that will support us because we will be seen as the "cool" team (as opposed to merely being Ars*nal's ugly kid sister and Chelscum's bitch). My point is that NOW is the time to reach into the billionaire bank account and up the ante a bit. We don't have to be City but we also don't have to be conservative, unimaginative, forever-last-minute-deal-making Spurs. Hell, shittier teams than us manage to acquire exciting offensive talent- why is it such a rarity with us?

2 main reasons really - but one reason is actually another reason.

1. We missed the boat with financial fair play. City got in there before FFP came in and built a sustainable business off the back of it. Chelsea before them. But this is actually another reason. And the reason is Joe wouldn't invest.

2. The bank loans require healthy accounts to be demonstrated year on year - understandable when you're spending what we are on the stadium.

The problem for most fans is that ENIC and the club have chosen to invest in real estate, land, and revenue stream generators rather than the team. Some might say it was their only option to get the club into the same ballpark as the the other top 6 teams. Others might point to the fact that Joe hasn't invested a penny before FFP so he's the wrong type of billionaire - what's the point of him? It's a money game these days, after all.

An additional problem is the communication lines with the club over exactly how long they are planning to make us wait for any serious investment in the attacking side of the team. I'm sure if they assured the fans that money would be spent and top talent acquired in our first season at the new place, then everyone would relax and patiently wait for it to happen. As it is, many fans have no reason to believe anything will be done any time soon to improve our transfer strategy. All the fans are being shown is a fancy arena with fancy restaurants. There's no communication about the plans for the team.

If the club were smart, they'll have worked out a way to invest in summer 2018. And if they're even smarter, they'll move heaven and earth to keep hold of Toby.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Lamela has only been fit for 1.5 out of the 4 seasons he has been at Spurs so jury out for me, even though I like him. As to the other 3 no denying their success but where is the depth, ability to rotate or to go with something different ? This I suspect was meant to come from the other forward players we have signed and they have been poor. As I’ve said earlier I think this comes down to plain old poor recruitment even if you factor our financial constraints. Examples are obvious, was there a single poster on SC who thought Sissoko would succeed before we signed him ? How can you sign GKN only for the coach to not rate him highly enough to give him any chances in his first season at the club ? This isn’t the same as the Janssen failure which, even though I think he was the wrong type of player, I could see the logic of but just didn’t work out.

Re Kane I think you misunderstand my point, what I’m saying is that unearthing a Kane, a Ledley or a Hoddle from your academy once in a generation is kind of to be expected. Show me a second such player and then you can start to suggest that you’ve done something special in your academy, hence my comment that we need to see who else comes through.

Isn't this just another way of saying you wish we spent more money ?

All clubs, including those above and around us, have spent lots of money badly. Liverpool, Arsenal, ManU and even ManC bought Walker for 50m FFS! Seriously, they also spent nearly 60m on Mangala and Boney two years ago.

Sissoko was an absolutely awful piece of business, I can't logic that one away at all, just fucking atrocious, and whoever had anything to do with that should be made to watch Paul Mitchell's black box recordings of Saido Berahino and James Macarthy on a 72 hour loop with their eyes pinned open, but when you are not shopping from the top shelf (in fact even that isn't foolproof as ManC, ManU, Barca and even Bayern have proven) every transfer comes with varying degrees risk. When you are buying potential the risk is that potential might never be realised, then there is the risk that the player doesn't ever quite gel with the rest of your team, the way you play, the culture, the weather etc etc....

No one would argue that we have got every transfer right, or that we have got some very wrong, but no club does.

What a club like us is getting wrongest though, IMO, is not making better use of the occasional academy product that we are getting for free and have had 5-10 years to coach how we want them play. That alone could have saved us about 50m for the likes of Sissoko, Njie, Nkoudou, and probably tots up to about 80-100k pw wages.

 

[jurgen]

Pathetic that all the ENIC outers are coming out of the woodwork now after we lose to the greatest premier league team when they've been quiet pretty much throughout the poch era

Hmm, or an alternative reading is that Poch has done a fucking spectacular job with one hand tied behind his back since he arrived but the chickens might be coming home to roost? He’s absolutely turned public opinion of Levy’s tenure round which was rock bottom after his joke appointment of Sherwood, but has he really and truly been ‘backed’ despite his great success in elevating us as a club? Some of his public utterances of late would suggest he feels not...

 

[shelfboy68]

What I don't get is this notion that out of the "big 6," somehow we are the poor, neglected stepchild, feeding off the scraps of the meals the other five regularly get to devour, all because their "daddies" are all richer than our daddy. Yet our daddy is also a Billionaire! So why in hell can't papa Joe pony up a bit of dough- perhaps just enough to get us over the hump? Is he a "poor" Billionaire? Is he a penny-pinching Billionaire? Is he an I-don't-give-a-flying-fuck-about-the-team-I-own-and-have-no-interest-in-plunking-down-even-one-red-cent-of-my-own-personal-fortune-on-them-now-or-in-the-future-type Billionaire?

I mean look- yes- among the group there are extravagant oligarchs like Abramovich and Shiek Mansour-- fellas who don't seem to mind spending money as long as their team wins and makes headlines for them- but what about Kroenke? Or Henry? Those two guys are not stupid businessmen (particularly John Henry)-- and I'm sure neither one of them is interested in creating an untenable, Leeds-like situation with either of their respective clubs. Yet when a Lacazette or a Wellbeck or a Mane comes available, those owners green light it and *BAM*- the player is acquired (often quite early on in the window) and lo and behold, goals start flying in from everywhere for the respective red shitstains...

But our Lewis can't do that?!? Would that really "change our wage structure that badly? And so what if it did-- I mean I don't see Liverpool players up in arms about to revolt because of what Sadio Mane makes! Why is it always Tottenham who has (or would have) all of these super disaffected players who are like one lesser paycheck away from total mutiny? How do these other teams manage to keep their players happy when they acquire someone who "breaks their wage structure?" Why is it us that just "can't ever do this?"

And why are we the ones with the (apparently) tight-fisted multi-billionaire? And wouldn't some risk-taking player investment (i.e., stumping up the cash for a proven winner) actually generate more wins (thereby raising our profile) and, as such, eventually generate more income in the long run for them? Win/win if you ask me-- as long as you do it smart.

I don't get it...

Our owner is one of the richest in the EPL probably in the top 5 but just because he is a billionaire it doesn't naturally equate that he has to spend his personal wealth making us into city.
The club's policy which is driven by levy is one of self sufficient and sustainable growth, which probably isn't going to make us successful on the pitch which is disappointing to fan's but keeps us in a healthy condition for the long term.
I would imagine that should ENIC wish to sell in the future the club would have little or no debt and to a potential investors would make us an attractive proposition.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

What a club like us is getting wrongest though, IMO, is not making better use of the occasional academy product that we are getting for free and have had 5-10 years to coach how we want them play. That alone could have saved us about 50m for the likes of Sissoko, Njie, Nkoudou, and probably tots up to about 80-100k pw wages.

The way I see it, the best way to minimise risk is not to sign anyone at all. Ever. Leave it to the academy boys. That's what they're there for.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

The way I see it, the best way to minimise risk is not to sign anyone at all. Ever. Leave it to the academy boys. That's what they're there for.

Fuck that, why stop there, lets just allow kids born within the sound of Chick King's door bell to play for us. We'll be like the PL's Basque team.

 

[mill]

The way I see it, the best way to minimise risk is not to sign anyone at all. Ever. Leave it to the academy boys. That's what they're there for.

I know you’re taking the piss but how can anyone argue against a mixture of of youth aligned with quality signings being the best way forward?

 

[Coyboy]

Isn't this just another way of saying you wish we spent more money ?

All clubs, including those above and around us, have spent lots of money badly. Liverpool, Arsenal, ManU and even ManC bought Walker for 50m FFS! Seriously, they also spent nearly 60m on Mangala and Boney two years ago.

Sissoko was an absolutely awful piece of business, I can't logic that one away at all, just fucking atrocious, and whoever had anything to do with that should be made to watch Paul Mitchell's black box recordings of Saido Berahino and James Macarthy on a 72 hour loop with their eyes pinned open, but when you are not shopping from the top shelf (in fact even that isn't foolproof as ManC, ManU, Barca and even Bayern have proven) every transfer comes with varying degrees risk. When you are buying potential the risk is that potential might never be realised, then there is the risk that the player doesn't ever quite gel with the rest of your team, the way you play, the culture, the weather etc etc....

No one would argue that we have got every transfer right, or that we have got some very wrong, but no club does.

What a club like us is getting wrongest though, IMO, is not making better use of the occasional academy product that we are getting for free and have had 5-10 years to coach how we want them play. That alone could have saved us about 50m for the likes of Sissoko, Njie, Nkoudou, and probably tots up to about 80-100k pw wages.

You beat this drum constantly but it is an incredibly bizarre criticism when you consider that our team consists of two players who have come through the academy and one who is our star player. Yes, you will say we should have used both earlier or rather Kane 'only' got his opportunity because other strikers were misfiring and/or going a bit doo lally (Adebayor) but that is frankly neither here nor there- that's how players force themselves in. In fact Poch has said that Kane was carrying too much weight that season and there may have been technical/mental areas of his game that required nurture.

You will state that KWP, Onomah, Edwards et al should have been given more game time but you are not a professional coach/manager, you don't know these players and are not qualified to give an unequivocal statement of fact or even opinion that they are 'ready'. Poch has singled out both Onomah and Edwards for praise but evidently there are areas of their game or mentality that need improvement. Most importantly, none of the above or Sterling or Amos or whoever have left permanently, much less gone on to better things.

In fact out of our academy players who have we left who do we miss?
Townsend? I don't think so.
Mason? Possibly pre injury as a back up midfielder, but he wanted to leave to get first team football.
Livermore? No.
Carroll? No.
Smith? He was sold pre Poch and possibly, but Walker was always better.

I think you need to relax re the academy players. If they are good enough, they will get their chance and frankly I can't think of a better manager, coaching staff or infrastructure to allow them to realise their potential and if they don't, it may well be their fault not ours.

I am not sure how or whom we could have developed more quickly to ensure we didn't have to sign any of those players.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

You beat this drum constantly but it is an incredibly bizarre criticism when you consider that our team consists of two players who have come through the academy and one who is our star player. Yes, you will say we should have used both earlier or rather Kane 'only' got his opportunity because other strikers were misfiring and/or going a bit doo lally (Adebayor) but that is frankly neither here nor there- that's how players force themselves in. In fact Poch has said that Kane was carrying too much weight that season and there may have been technical/mental areas of his game that required nurture.

You will state that KWP, Onomah, Edwards et al should have been given more game time but you are not a professional coach/manager, you don't know these players and are not qualified to give an unequivocal statement of fact or even opinion that they are 'ready'. Poch has singled out both Onomah and Edwards for praise but evidently there are areas of their game or mentality that need improvement. Most importantly, none of the above or Sterling or Amos or whoever have left permanently, much less gone on to better things.

In fact out of our academy players who have we left who do we miss?
Townsend? I don't think so.
Mason? Possibly pre injury as a back up midfielder, but he wanted to leave to get first team football.
Livermore? No.
Carroll? No.
Smith? He was sold pre Poch and possibly, but Walker was always better.

I think you need to relax re the academy players. If they are good enough, they will get their chance and frankly I can't think of a better manager, coaching staff or infrastructure to allow them to realise their potential and if they don't, it may well be their fault not ours.

I am not sure how or whom we could have developed more quickly to ensure we didn't have to sign any of those players.

Kane's initial establishment had very little to do with Pochettino, he's just been the principal beneficiary of it. I'm not even sure how much credit I would give to Pochettino for any evolution in Kane's game, maybe some, but I'm not totally sure as Kane still does some of the (few admittedly) irritating things he's been doing from the get go, like not passing to team mates sometimes when he's in a terrible position and they are in great positions, straying offside, work off the ball drop off for phases etc.

And yes, I would definitely say that Winks should have been used much more last season.

I also believe that KWP has the potential (though I can't prove this scientifically) to be better than Aurier and would love to have seen him be the rotational FB this season.

I think we have seen every season phases of drop-off in performance at one time or another both collectively and individually, we are seeing it massively this season with players like Alli, we are also suffering from injuries to key areas and I think if Pochettino had been a bit braver and, more importantly, cleverer with his use of the - VERY BEST FEW - academy players - as well as other squad players, we could have averted some of these issues, kept our best players a bit fresher, whilst at the same time increasing our squad pool options, for no expense, meaning also money could be better spent elsewhere.

You can use the "I'm not a professional football manager" line fir just about every discussion any of us have on here, and if it were true, that we have to be one to have a valid opinion, we might as well all stop now and shut the sight down, and while we're at it we'll stop talking about politics, the economy and Shank's love life. But it isn't a cast iron truism, we are capable of using our own years of reading and studying football in all it's machinations to hold valid opinions and put forward viable arguments for and against what the "professionals" do. We can see how other clubs operate academy integration, the successes and failures etc etc etc..

We can watch French and German teams continually integrate with reasonable success. This week we saw ManC, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool all rotate heavily and use academy players and all win games against other PL teams.

We also have pretty good knowledge (sometimes extensive) of players we purchase. I would not have spent 30m on Moussa Sissoko - so who's judgement is better, mine or Pochettino's or any of the other "professionals" who were involved in that decision? Could it have possibly been any more risky or less viable to have given Onomah all those 20/30 minutes in games we were 3 and 4 nil up in last year as a CM, and then play him every pre season game as a CM after watching him win the WC as one, than end up with Sissoko careering around like a Rhino on PCP ?


And for the record, I never wanted Townsend or Livermore playing for us, never complained about Carroll being sold, and I am still not saying I think Winks will have a long career with us, despite them being academy players, but what all those players prove is that even when they are not great or long term viable, they can still provide a functionary use, short term, and because contrary to the opinion of some, it's not just about academy players playing for the sake of them playing, it's about wanting the very best players, be they purchased or home grown, being given the correct level of opportunity, whatever that may be, in any given set of circumstances, for the benefit of the team.

 

[dontcallme]

To me a billionaire is a billionaire. If you are so wealthy that you will never run out of money- and you own a football team on the cusp of greatness that would clearly be helped buy a relatively small (in the scheme of things) cash infusion-- one that could actually come to benefit you in the long run-- then why not do it? In for a penny, in for a Pound- right? I understand the idea of Spurs being run as a profitable business- one that remains firmly in the black, year after year- but wouldn't you (Joe Lewis) derive pleasure from being a true European (so therefore world) powerhouse? I don't think it would be that hard (or cost that much) to do this! Yes we would have to tweak our vaunted "wage structure" but so what? Is that really such a Pandora's box that once opened we'd be firmly on the road to doing a Leeds? And if so, why aren't Liverpool doing a Leeds?

We are a London club with an increasingly growing worldwide profile. If we keep this up (if we keep winning/playing in the Champions league/etc.) then there will be a whole generation of kids that will support us because we will be seen as the "cool" team (as opposed to merely being Ars*nal's ugly kid sister and Chelscum's bitch). My point is that NOW is the time to reach into the billionaire bank account and up the ante a bit. We don't have to be City but we also don't have to be conservative, unimaginative, forever-last-minute-deal-making Spurs. Hell, shittier teams than us manage to acquire exciting offensive talent- why is it such a rarity with us?

It’s funny because you think you can determine how someone spends their own money.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

I know you’re taking the piss but how can anyone argue against a mixture of of youth aligned with quality signings being the best way forward?

I'm not arguing with it. If they are good enough.

 

[Coyboy]

Kane's initial establishment had very little to do with Pochettino, he's just been the principal beneficiary of it. I'm not even sure how much credit I would give to Pochettino for any evolution in Kane's game, maybe some, but I'm not totally sure as Kane still does some of the (few admittedly) irritating things he's been doing from the get go, like not passing to team mates sometimes when he's in a terrible position and they are in great positions, straying offside, work off the ball drop off for phases etc.

And yes, I would definitely say that Winks should have been used much more last season.

I also believe that KWP has the potential (though I can't prove this scientifically) to be better than Aurier and would love to have seen him be the rotational FB this season.

I think we have seen every season phases of drop-off in performance at one time or another both collectively and individually, we are seeing it massively this season with players like Alli, we are also suffering from injuries to key areas and I think if Pochettino had been a bit braver and, more importantly, cleverer with his use of the - VERY BEST FEW - academy players - as well as other squad players, we could have averted some of these issues, kept our best players a bit fresher, whilst at the same time increasing our squad pool options, for no expense, meaning also money could be better spent elsewhere.

You can use the "I'm not a professional football manager" line fir just about every discussion any of us have on here, and if it were true, that we have to be one to have a valid opinion, we might as well all stop now and shut the sight down, and while we're at it we'll stop talking about politics, the economy and Shank's love life. But it isn't a cast iron truism, we are capable of using our own years of reading and studying football in all it's machinations to hold valid opinions and put forward viable arguments for and against what the "professionals" do. We can see how other clubs operate academy integration, the successes and failures etc etc etc..

We can watch French and German teams continually integrate with reasonable success. This week we saw ManC, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool all rotate heavily and use academy players and all win games against other PL teams.

We also have pretty good knowledge (sometimes extensive) of players we purchase. I would not have spent 30m on Moussa Sissoko - so who's judgement is better, mine or Pochettino's or any of the other "professionals" who were involved in that decision? Could it have possibly been any more risky or less viable to have given Onomah all those 20/30 minutes in games we were 3 and 4 nil up in last year as a CM, and then play him every pre season game as a CM after watching him win the WC as one, than end up with Sissoko careering around like a Rhino on PCP ?


And for the record, I never wanted Townsend or Livermore playing for us, never complained about Carroll being sold, and I am still not saying I think Winks will have a long career with us, despite them being academy players, but what all those players prove is that even when they are not great or long term viable, they can still provide a functionary use, short term, and because contrary to the opinion of some, it's not just about academy players playing for the sake of them playing, it's about wanting the very best players, be they purchased or home grown, being given the correct level of opportunity, whatever that may be, in any given set of circumstances, for the benefit of the team.

That’s the problem; I think it did for the reasons I’ve stated above. I really think you misunderstand what it takes to be a footballer and you believe it is just a case of telling a player “here you go go and play”. Please if you have professional experience tell me but I’m going to go out and limb and guess you don’t. If you truly believe Poch has nothing to do with Kane’s rise your understanding of football is even more limited than it first appears.


That does not mean you can’t have an opinion; of course you can. But you communicate your views as if you are doing so from a position of higher power and more expertise and it is frankly embarrassing. You’re a fan. You ain’t a professional.


You say we shouldn’t have signed Njie/Sissoko/N’Koudou because we had x,y and z; but most of the young players you advocate were or are in their mid teens when we signed the above.


You and humility have never got on well and that’s fine; with your cute little headlines you have an ego you need to fulfil but it would really help you if you realised you’re just a fan with an opinion and a right to that opinion but no greater knowledge than Poch.