Away form against top sides

goughie1966

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#61
We were second behind Chelsea by seven points last season (with an unbeaten home run) and Leicester by ten points the season before.

That should put into perspective the importance of winning away at the main competition. Whether the season is over four games, thirty eight or one hundred the fact remains that we are inferior to out main competitors away from our home ground. That has to change if we are to ever win the PL.
We drew at Everton, drew at home to Liverpool, drew at West Brom, drew at Bournemouth, drew at home to Leicester, drew at relegated Sunderland, lost to West Ham away.

That's 14 points dropped in games we could or should've won and would have won us the title. It had nothing to do with results against the top 6. We finished above them all anyway bar Chelsea.

If we win the easier games, results against the top 6 don't matter. Not putting away the smaller teams costs us each year. As I said earlier in the thread I'm not too bothered about results away to the top sides. The top 6 spend millions more than we do and it's a miracle we even compete against them let alone go and beat them at their places.

We've already dropped 4 points at home to Burnley and Swansea this season. This is what could kill us again this season.
 

Kspur

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#62
To be honest mate I would not want to be in a changing room listening to shit like we need to balance expectation and size of task etc, I want hear that we have come here to win and not be frightened by anything and to go out and play without fear, and not to keep passing sideways and backwards.
I think you confused me saying people with players?

I’m talking about us fans.

Obviously I wouldn’t be advocating the manager taking that line in the team talk.
 

Gaz_Gammon

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#64
Oh sorry my mistake, you must have been referring to the Leicester side who lost 5-2 at home to Arsenal, lost 1-0 at Liverpool, lost 2-1 at Arsenal, drew 1-1 home to Man Utd, drew 0-0 with Man City, drew 1-1 with Spurs at home, drew 1-1 at Man Utd and drew 1-1 at Chelsea.
Yes, that one again.

Your research is quite outstanding, if there was a "piss perfect" icon i would surely award that to your good self.
 

Gaz_Gammon

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#65
We drew at Everton, drew at home to Liverpool, drew at West Brom, drew at Bournemouth, drew at home to Leicester, drew at relegated Sunderland, lost to West Ham away.

That's 14 points dropped in games we could or should've won and would have won us the title. It had nothing to do with results against the top 6. We finished above them all anyway bar Chelsea.

If we win the easier games, results against the top 6 don't matter. Not putting away the smaller teams costs us each year. As I said earlier in the thread I'm not too bothered about results away to the top sides. The top 6 spend millions more than we do and it's a miracle we even compete against them let alone go and beat them at their places.

We've already dropped 4 points at home to Burnley and Swansea this season. This is what could kill us again this season.
Fact remains that we have two wins in sixteen games away the top six.

No team will go through the season wiping the floor with the so called "weaker" teams, just ask Chelsea and Yanited fans about Burnley and Huddersfield.
 

Spinders

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#66
Not really that concerned by this stat, as others have said it's just common sense you don't get as many points against the big sides away from home. That said, we're defo due a win at The Emirates.
 

spurs9

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#68
I'm not bothered about not winning away at a top 6 side. Most of them hardly lose any games at home all season anyway. What pisses me off is dropping points at home to shite teams. Seasons gone by we've lost at home to the likes of Newcastle and countless other weaker sides. That's where titles are won or lost. Not winning at your rivals.

If we'd beaten Burnely and the mighty Swansea at Wembley this season we'd be 4 points better off and 1 point above Utd. Champions don't lose at home to the bottom half teams. We do. Liverpool's record against the top 6 is better than anyone's yet they barely make the top 4 each season.
Chelsea lost at home to Place, who were 16th at the time, last season.
 

Shadydan

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#69
Another silly myth busted then, when are people going to realise that the team with the most points in the entire league actually wins the title not some arbitrary mini league.
 

rossdapep

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#70
I agree with what most are saying in the respect that winning away at the big boys doesn't necessarily win you the title. However, a couple of positive results certainly gives you and edge and would surely boost confidence into this group of players - a group of players who I think are lacking the belief to go that final yard or two.

If we'd have beaten or secured a point at the weekend that would have been a monumental boost for the players. A win at Old Trafford a place we don't win at too often would have given them so much belief that they can do the same at City and start to really apply some pressure over the coming weeks.

I think Alli's comments were pretty telling "We are frustrated because we want to win, not just compete". He's right, we want to win at these places because it confirms to the players that they are good enough to become champions, a defeat at a rival can dent confidence. I expect to lose away at the bigger teams, especially as we are a financial disadvantage, however a win or two or a few draws will only qualify that these players are good enough to win anywhere and against anyone.

The players need to find it within themselves to bounce back against a wounded Madrid team. If this team can then go to the Emirates and Etihad before xmas and win, then we can look forward again but we really ought to start winning at the Old Trafford and Stamford Bridge.
 

dagraham

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#71
Another silly myth busted then, when are people going to realise that the team with the most points in the entire league actually wins the title not some arbitrary mini league.
Don't disagree, but we're not really talking about one season in isolation. We're talking about results and performances away against the top sides for a long time, even when we have become a far better team with a far better squad.

How many times do we find ourselves saying "played really well ,controlled the game for x minutes. Should have won" etc? We don't win though. We have the moral victory, but can't make the decisive moments count or we are the better team but find a way to lose.
 

Shadydan

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#72
Don't disagree, but we're not really talking about one season in isolation. We're talking about results and performances away against the top sides for a long time, even when we have become a far better team with a far better squad.

How many times do we find ourselves saying "played really well ,controlled the game for x minutes. Should have won" etc? We don't win though. We have the moral victory, but can't make the decisive moments count or we are the better team but find a way to lose.
You'll probably find that we're not the only team that suffer this, it's not really exclusive to us if you look at other teams.
 

shelfboy68

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#73
No-one expects to win every game away from home against your major rivals around you not even the champions do that, but in our case we don't or very rarely win any against them and yet last season our home record was top draw but we still issues away from home and I think I'm the main it's a lack of belief.
As for Alli's miss last year I think he buries it but this year he seems to be not at the race's maybe he has believed in his own hype too much but definitely not playing like he was.
 

dagraham

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#74
No-one expects to win every game away from home against your major rivals around you not even the champions do that, but in our case we don't or very rarely win any against them and yet last season our home record was top draw but we still issues away from home and I think I'm the main it's a lack of belief.
As for Alli's miss last year I think he buries it but this year he seems to be not at the race's maybe he has believed in his own hype too much but definitely not playing like he was.
The game at the Emirates will be telling. We are a a better team than them these days, but they still have the quality to turn it on.

If they are better on the day so be it, but what I don’t want to see is another game like this where we dominate, but don’t really do enough to win or give away a stupid goal etc.
 

spursfast

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Jan 23, 2017
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#75
I agree with what most are saying in the respect that winning away at the big boys doesn't necessarily win you the title. However, a couple of positive results certainly gives you and edge and would surely boost confidence into this group of players - a group of players who I think are lacking the belief to go that final yard or two.

If we'd have beaten or secured a point at the weekend that would have been a monumental boost for the players. A win at Old Trafford a place we don't win at too often would have given them so much belief that they can do the same at City and start to really apply some pressure over the coming weeks.

I think Alli's comments were pretty telling "We are frustrated because we want to win, not just compete". He's right, we want to win at these places because it confirms to the players that they are good enough to become champions, a defeat at a rival can dent confidence. I expect to lose away at the bigger teams, especially as we are a financial disadvantage, however a win or two or a few draws will only qualify that these players are good enough to win anywhere and against anyone.

The players need to find it within themselves to bounce back against a wounded Madrid team. If this team can then go to the Emirates and Etihad before xmas and win, then we can look forward again but we really ought to start winning at the Old Trafford and Stamford Bridge.
i think that's correct,, " will only qualify that these players are good enough to win anywhere and against anyone..." we already played Chelsea at home and OT, but we still got some big games to come, and every chance of getting results away and at home to these teams
 
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#76
That was not the all conquering MUFC team of old under SAF but just a pale shadow of that side/SAF teams. The fact we have gone away, again, and put in that kind of performance just goes to show we are nowhere near ready to win the league. Dress it how you want but just 1 win away at a fellow top 6 team since MP has taken over is not good enough if you are talking about winning the league.

Our team/club suffers some kind of mental block that it just cant get over when we go away to big sides, Can it ever get over only time will tell but if we want to win PL/Cups then we need to get over that hurdle and fast.....
 

MightySpurs

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#77
That's because they aren't as good as what people think they are, and haven't been since fergie fucked off. Even this season their team is uninspiring, i mean they just lost to huddersfield last week. How the hell can huddersfield put two past them and we can only create one proper chance in the whole match? It's all mental, our team is going there (old trafford) consistently and basically giving them the chance to win. We should be taking the prerogative away from them, trying to kill the game on the counter/through possession but instead we just look like we've given up before the match even starts. We probably have the second best 11 in the league, even with injuries, and yet we manage to shit ourselves at these grounds constantly. It's incredibly frustrating
Do you really think that united sets up the same way against us vs huddersfield?
vs huddersfield - they don`t show the same respect, thats why.
Top teams fear us now, and set up to stop our style of play- and this time it worked.

Buf ffs. before this season started, I did`t think we would even get top 4 beacuse of wembley and the fact that other managers had a blanc check to buy whoever they wanted. Top that with our insane injury record so far - and I think we are doing very well.

Top 4 this season is massiv
 

Shadydan

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#78
That was not the all conquering MUFC team of old under SAF but just a pale shadow of that side/SAF teams. The fact we have gone away, again, and put in that kind of performance just goes to show we are nowhere near ready to win the league. Dress it how you want but just 1 win away at a fellow top 6 team since MP has taken over is not good enough if you are talking about winning the league.

Our team/club suffers some kind of mental block that it just cant get over when we go away to big sides, Can it ever get over only time will tell but if we want to win PL/Cups then we need to get over that hurdle and fast.....
As been said many times, have a look at Chelsea's away form to their rivals last season and you will see a similar pattern, the team with the most points after 38 matches wins you the league not some dick sizing contest against our rivals.
 

knowlespurs

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#79
its not so much the results more about how passive we are, Saturday was poor, and the games last season we seem to lack the mentality to win, for all Poch has done i still dont think the team believe we can win these games, in his book Poch constantly talks about being brave but in these games we arent
 

smallsnc

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#80
Anyone who says that gets shouted down. Don't get me wrong, I'm no hater but the way some of our fans go on makes us out to be world beaters.

I'm quietly confident. Poch isn't dumb, he will fix these issues and if he doesn't then it's bye bye thanks for all the hard work.
Poch has done well IMO.

Not counting this season since it is only partial, the last 2 seasons we have gained more points against the other "top 6" clubs than they have against us. Poch and the team must be doing something right.

Total Points in matches against top 6 clubs for 2015/2016 and 2016/2017:

Us 30
Them 21

Only Liverpool have taken more points from us than we have from them during this period.

We are not the only team that has had a problem getting points on the road as there does seem to be a home advantage but overall it looks like we have more than held our own.
 
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