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Away Loyalty Points

SUIYHA

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2017
1,723
8,579
I know this has been discussed before, but it really looks like the system is starting to fail to those who are not "in" already.

I get that games like Chelsea (London derby) will always be well subscribed (334 points needed). I also get that people will want to go to Dortmund to see the yellow wall in the Champions Leauge (315 points). However, when I see Southampton coming in at 350 points and a Liverpool game on a live on Sky Sports Sunday match coming in at 369, it makes you realise that it's going to be almost exclusively the same people going to every single game. Supposedly.

The list of how many season ticket holders with how many points can be seen here - https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/tickets/buy-tickets/ticketing-points/

Looking at this table, it seems there are 3322 season ticket holders with 350 or more loyalty points, which was the cut off for the Southampton game. The allocation of 3,262, that means 98% of the people in this bracket applied and got tickets. And then got two more points. With those two points they pull further ahead of everyone else. It's a similar situation for Liverpool.

Now I get that those people are the most hardcore fans, hence why they have the most points, but I just cannot believe that there are that many people who go to literally every single away game - more likely they book them out themselves, collect the points and then either sell them on or give to their mates. Meanwhile, other fans like myself who would like to go to more away games, get further and further behind, not because I am not applying or trying to go, but because the system favours those who got in first. I used to be able to to away games as a member (before I had a ST), but now the only times I can go is if either a mate has a spare, or if I pay through the nose for one - in both instances somebody else gets the loyalty points not me.

Does anyone else think the system needs a rethink? Even if you are one of the "lucky" ones? Is there a better alternative?
 

fingersinc

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2006
378
401
I know this has been discussed before, but it really looks like the system is starting to fail to those who are not "in" already.

I get that games like Chelsea (London derby) will always be well subscribed (334 points needed). I also get that people will want to go to Dortmund to see the yellow wall in the Champions Leauge (315 points). However, when I see Southampton coming in at 350 points and a Liverpool game on a live on Sky Sports Sunday match coming in at 369, it makes you realise that it's going to be almost exclusively the same people going to every single game. Supposedly.

The list of how many season ticket holders with how many points can be seen here - https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/tickets/buy-tickets/ticketing-points/

Looking at this table, it seems there are 3322 season ticket holders with 350 or more loyalty points, which was the cut off for the Southampton game. The allocation of 3,262, that means 98% of the people in this bracket applied and got tickets. And then got two more points. With those two points they pull further ahead of everyone else. It's a similar situation for Liverpool.

Now I get that those people are the most hardcore fans, hence why they have the most points, but I just cannot believe that there are that many people who go to literally every single away game - more likely they book them out themselves, collect the points and then either sell them on or give to their mates. Meanwhile, other fans like myself who would like to go to more away games, get further and further behind, not because I am not applying or trying to go, but because the system favours those who got in first. I used to be able to to away games as a member (before I had a ST), but now the only times I can go is if either a mate has a spare, or if I pay through the nose for one - in both instances somebody else gets the loyalty points not me.

Does anyone else think the system needs a rethink? Even if you are one of the "lucky" ones? Is there a better alternative?

You need to remember that Corprate Ticket holders now receive 15% of the away ticket allocation.

I haven’t missed an away game yet this season. In fact I’ve probably only missed about 6 away games since Poch became manager.

The standard away allocation is 3,000 tickets. I would say that at least 2000 fans go to at least 15 of the 19 away games each season.

Since it became £30 it has become harder to get tickets.
 

Chirpystheman

Well-Known Member
Jan 22, 2019
501
1,610
The £30 cap has killed chances for most to get tickets. The reason being you can always shift a ticket on when its £30 or even take a little hit. When Wigan away was nearly £60 people didn't take the risk of getting stick with a ticket. The rich get richer now. Be interesting to see what would happen if you had a PSV situation of having to go and pick up tickets in person with ID. Prob see a much lower LP needed.
 

Goldman

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2004
7,087
2,141
Yea I used to go to about 5 away games per season, but not had much luck at all since the £30 cap. 55 quid to see QPR was no problem ha!

Also I suppose we are playing so well lately, particularly away from home, the demand is probably higher.

Has anyone seen a table for the min LP required for each game this season? Can only find one for previous years.
 

Hoopspur

You have insufficient privileges to reply here!
Jun 28, 2012
6,332
9,703
I can bleat on about this for evermore. I’ve missed approx 5 Home games since 1980. I’ve been to 60 or so stadia domestically and 12 or so abroad. Hereford, Bolton 6-1 (loss), Carlisle, Tranmere, Newcastle when there were 150 or so Spurs fans and in the snow, Forest in the snow and tons more. But because of circumstances there was a period of time a few years ago when I couldn’t go away every week. I’m now not seen as a loyal fan and don’t receive loyalty points although I’ve applied for nearly every game. I’ve been to maybe 6 away this season mainly in the home section or neutral (Fulham - £60). I don’t get recognition for applying for every game.

I also feel there should be a rethink as this problem is self perpetuating. Possibly ‘brackets’ and ballots within those? At least a creative rethink.

As an aside, I applied for a single Dortmund ticket and was unsuccessful. I have about 300 points. A friend of mine was issued a ticket through Thomas Cook and has 190 or so but is obviously booking through them. Go figure. Now tell me money is not involved?

As you can tell by this rant, I’m not overly pleased. I’ve written to Spurs and have had a reply. I’ll find it...:mad:
 

fingersinc

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2006
378
401
Yea I used to go to about 5 away games per season, but not had much luck at all since the £30 cap. 55 quid to see QPR was no problem ha!

Also I suppose we are playing so well lately, particularly away from home, the demand is probably higher.

Has anyone seen a table for the min LP required for each game this season? Can only find one for previous years.

Newcastle 122
United 99
Watford 390
Brighton 338
Huddersfield 356
West Ham 343
West Ham cup 98
Wolves 308
Palace 379
Arsenal 362
Leicester 188
Arsenal cup 300
Everton 217
Cardiff 110
Tranmere cup 330
Fulham 409
Chelsea cup 330
Palace cup 302
Burnley 277
Chelsea 334
Southampton 350
Liverpool 401
 

southlondonyiddo

My eyes have seen some of the glory..
Nov 8, 2004
12,599
15,012
Unless ID's are checked and names are on the tickets there is no chance of this situation changing although the Wembley factor has meant even more supporters wanting to go away rather than having to visit the atmosphere vacuum

As has been said by many the £30 cap (which was brought in for the right reasons) has meant everyone applies now because £30 isn’t too much of a hit should they not end up going or can’t manage to sell it on

Initially the new LP rules culled the old supporters who never went but automatically acquired points each season from the ST renewal but not it’s looking like the points system is once again not really fit for purpose
 

BPR_U16

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2006
1,783
2,603
You need to remember that Corprate Ticket holders now receive 15% of the away ticket allocation.

I haven’t missed an away game yet this season. In fact I’ve probably only missed about 6 away games since Poch became manager.

The standard away allocation is 3,000 tickets. I would say that at least 2000 fans go to at least 15 of the 19 away games each season.

Since it became £30 it has become harder to get tickets.
How many of those 2000 do you reckon are going to home matches at Wembley?

I know many members boycotting and passing tickets on just so they keep getting the home points plus the away ones.

It has become a closed shop which cannot be right
 

riggi

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2008
48,486
104,718
I mentioned this in the levy thread.

The £30 cut off has enabled people to get the tickets and then sell them on (often at inflated prices) and earn the loyalty points. When there was no maximum price, I could get Chelsea and West Ham away ticket on my membership.

So either some of the season ticket holders who go to every game now are glory hunters or a percentage of them are hoarding points.
 

evoid

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2005
322
576
I think it's a number of factors previously mentioned in this thread, increased corporate %, £30 cap, Wembley, team playing well, point hoarding etc. I'm quite lucky as in my group of 20-30 probably 75% have 400 points plus, meaning there is usually a spare going for any away game or we can ask for someone to apply on our behalf. On top of this we've probably got an extended network of 50-100 ST holders with high loyalty points that we can ask for spares. I have 100ish points myself, so unlikely to do any games on my ST (just two this season, looking at the list above) yet can go to most games I want. Obviously this then means that the rich get richer, but with the current system it's the only way of doing away games.

Having said that, I've never paid more than FV for a ticket & each time you go away you always see the same faces - so I would say the majority buying tickets (at least that I know) are actually attending the games.

I think with our 'success', we've ended up with a real core group of fans that go home and away which has caused the 'closed shop'. I definitely think with the introduction of 20,000 or so new season ticket holders that the whole loyalty point scheme needs to be re-thought. I imagine this will piss off a lot of the old school fans (including my group), but it's unfair on the majority of other fans at the moment.

I know Chelsea do away tickets based on points collected over 1 season or so (probably due to their high turnover of fans...) they also give a percentage to members. Perhaps we could look to do the majority of tickets on loyalty points & small % goes to a ballot that any ST holder can enter? Or we go down the route of what United do and present an ID to receive the ticket. Either way, it definitely needs to be looked at going forward.
 

Jimmypearce7

Well-Known Member
Feb 23, 2005
1,473
2,255
There is usually an unintended consequence of interfering in a market and the £30 cap is a case in point, actually making it harder for some fans to get tickets.

I have enough points for nearly every away game- because I go to them- but I still think it is unfair- it’s like a mad game you are either in or out of.

I would suggest making a number of games an open ballot- say 6- and keeping the most popular games on loyalty points.

That is a balance- rewarding loyalty- and giving other people a chance of going.
 

waresy

Well-Known Member
Mar 22, 2004
2,421
1,569
I was talking about away games with my Dad last night whilst watching Pompey at Fratton Park. We are only Lillywhite members and back a few years ago were able to go to a dozen or so away games as our LP would allow when we applied. I now dont get to as many home games as I would like due to family and other commitments that come at different times in life so getting to an away game would now be almost impossible which is a shame.

The drop off of points after 5 (i think) years will mean there is a bit of a cycle, but with the amount of points needed for away games it will take some time for a ST holder to get there.

I'm not sure what other system you could put in place that then wouldnt get those fans who have been going regulalry already wouldnt complain about from the other view point.

For me, unless I can get a ST in the distant future away games are a no no
 

Spurs 1961

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
6,665
8,739
Interesting discussion. I keep applying but know I have no chance of getting a ticket. I had thought the cap on away prices was a good thing as it keeps costs down for supporters but didn't understand what people are saying here that most of the tickets are sold on. I guess never having got a ticket I assumed their were more careful checks on away ticket holders
 

Phomesy

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
9,188
14,102
The most frustrating thing was having years and years of LP as a lily white member just wiped away when me and my mates became season ticket holders 2 years ago.

Keep applying but have concluded it's almost impossible to get any away tickets ever. Needs to be a ballot system for some of the allocation to keep hope for others.
 

DiscoD1882

SC Supporter
Mar 27, 2006
6,934
14,669
my mate has been trying to get an away ticket all season. getting custard pied for even southampton away as we dont have enough points. Its crazy. over 350 points for southampton???
 

Joshua shepherd

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2013
1,342
3,343
my mate has been trying to get an away ticket all season. getting custard pied for even southampton away as we dont have enough points. Its crazy. over 350 points for southampton???

There are a few good Facebook groups that only let you sell for face value, has got me to both Everton and Cardiff over Christmas. It is what it is, those with 350+ points deserve the tickets and even if they miss a few over the season their loyalty should realistically be rewarded imo.
 

TottenhamLegend

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2012
3,273
9,439
In 2015 I was only a bronze member and probably got about 10 PL away tickets on my own membership.

Since last year I'm a season ticket holder, now with about 170 points (must be about as high as it's possible to be for someone who got their ST last year) but I'm absolutely nowhere near any PL away tickets. The only games I've managed to get since the start of last season are West Ham (League Cup) and Rochdale last year. Fortunately still managed to get to most games though through mates/twitter.

Demand has absolutely skyrocketed. Probably a combination of us massively improving, and also the £30 cap.

Ultimately though, I think our system is as fair as it can be. You just have to gradually keep earning those points for home cup games, especially league cup 5 pointers etc, and build your way up. Eventually you'll be high enough to at least get the shitty PL aways nobody wants like Newcastle on a Wednesday night or whatever. If you don't want to go to those home cup games, then when you can, the crap away games, then I'm afraid you won't ever get your Arsenals or Chelseas away.
 

MattyP

Advises to have a beer & sleep with prostitutes
May 14, 2007
14,041
2,980
Maybe a compromise would be 90% of the allocation per game based on loyalty points, 10% based on a ballot.

Obviously people's views on what the appropriate percentages to apply to each bucket would depend on what side of the equation you or your friends are on.

But it would still reward loyalty, which is important, whilst also opening up the experience of any away game to newer people.
 

fingersinc

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2006
378
401
In 2015 I was only a bronze member and probably got about 10 PL away tickets on my own membership.

Since last year I'm a season ticket holder, now with about 170 points (must be about as high as it's possible to be for someone who got their ST last year) but I'm absolutely nowhere near any PL away tickets. The only games I've managed to get since the start of last season are West Ham (League Cup) and Rochdale last year. Fortunately still managed to get to most games though through mates/twitter.

Demand has absolutely skyrocketed. Probably a combination of us massively improving, and also the £30 cap.

Ultimately though, I think our system is as fair as it can be. You just have to gradually keep earning those points for home cup games, especially league cup 5 pointers etc, and build your way up. Eventually you'll be high enough to at least get the shitty PL aways nobody wants like Newcastle on a Wednesday night or whatever. If you don't want to go to those home cup games, then when you can, the crap away games, then I'm afraid you won't ever get your Arsenals or Chelseas away.

With 170 points you could’ve done Newcastle, United and Cardiff away this season. You’re right in that the 5 point home cup games are the way to build up points as well as 19 extra points for attending home league games this season.
 

SUIYHA

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2017
1,723
8,579
IMO there are two solutions:

Option 1 - Random ID checks upon entry to see if the name on the ticket is the same as the person using it. Or do what Glastonbury do and make you submit a photo to be printed on the ticket - though that would require the home team to print them and probably wouldn't work.

Option 2 - 10-15% of the tickets are withheld and the first 85-90% of the tickets allocated in the usual way, prioritising those with the top loyalty points. The remainder are then allocated as part of a random ballot amongst those who applied - meaning that they will still go to ST holders but gives a chance to 300 new people to experience an away match. Remember, to get a season ticket even in the post-WHL / Wembley era, you still had to become club member and pay yearly fees just to stay on a waiting list so it's not like any of these would be going to casuals who couldn't name you anyone in our squad beyond Harry Kane.

Or we could do both.
 
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