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Ben Davies

Lufti

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2013
7,994
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Wouldn't bother me, we have Ogilvie who could be back up. Quite like the look of the Serbia U20 Lb as well (Antonov ?)

So just to clarify, cause I'm not sure you can possibly actually mean this, but you'd be happy for our LB backup to be someone who's never played a second of first team football at any club? And presumably we play him in all the cups?
 
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Sweech

Ruh Roh Ressegnon
Jun 27, 2013
6,752
16,378
How can you say it's better to have a bloke that's not played a single minute of senior football over an international LB who has a number of top flight seasons to his name? Younger =/= better
Especially Ogilvie, I'm just not a fan. Every time I've seen him he clearly looks like the most easily exploited (and usually is) in the defensive unit. I don't think he's anywhere near PL ready.
 

glospur

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2015
2,608
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Especially Ogilvie, I'm just not a fan. Every time I've seen him he clearly looks like the most easily exploited (and usually is) in the defensive unit. I don't think he's anywhere near PL ready.
I haven't seen a single minute of Ogilvie so I can't judge his ability, or otherwise. I think Davies is the perfect rotation for LB; he's willing to fight for his place, he could certainly win it off Rose if he hits top form, and he's a player that's young enough that he should keep getting better. After that absolute disastrous situation from a couple of seasons ago with a poor and often injured Rose and a disinterested Verts playing LB we should always have two senior specialty fullbacks - for both side - in my opinion.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
So just to clarify, cause I'm not sure you can possibly actually mean this, but you'd be happy for our LB backup to be someone who's never played a second of first team football at any club? And presumably we play him in all the cups?

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. We use the young left back we have spent several years teaching to be left back as back up left back.

Radical eh ?
 

joshcorey

Free Kick Extraordinaire
Jul 15, 2009
217
326
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. We use the young left back we have spent several years teaching to be left back as back up left back.

Radical eh ?

See your point here, and agree we should start using and further developing our own youth who we've taught.. but as a 3rd choice. As a 2nd choice? I'm not sure. 1st choice gets injured a couple weeks in and you've got an 18-21 year old without a minutes PL football starting against the likes of Mirallas and Navas? Chances are we'd get slaughtered.
 

Lufti

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2013
7,994
16,635
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. We use the young left back we have spent several years teaching to be left back as back up left back.

Radical eh ?

Hm, radical isn't the word I was thinking of. It does begin with an 'r' though and the third, fourth, and fifth letters are the same.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,513
I still like Davies and I still like Fazio.

Not only that, but I just can't get my head around people who have watched football for years when they want to immediately move a player on after giving them only 1 year. Have you learned nothing from football? Not only that, but neither of them were totally crap, I'd say they were both about average.

I think you have to look at their skill sets and the system they are asked to play in, and you can only go on the evidence you have seen so far. People can say for instance that Rose improved but as I was saying last season, his problems were of application and mindset; both of which he has sorted out and now we have seen the improvement. The raw ingredients were already there though.

Davies though has been brought up at Swansea with a winger playing in front of him, and a role of getting the ball to feet and helping move the ball up field and then supporting the wide player ahead of him. So he's technically neat and tidy, but he doesn't have the pace or the game to really bomb forward and provide the width high up the pitch that Poch's system requires with such inverted attacking midfielders.

When it comes to Fazio, what he's good at is perfectly acceptable. If the ball comes in the box then he'll kick or head anything away. Put him in a team that plays a deep defensive line and he will look a very handy player. He has a total lack of pace though and is slower still on the turn and gets caught out by the ball over the top, as well as not being the best technically and can get in a mess with the ball at his feet, so for a high line defence...

So yes we hope these players improve, but given the system seemingly isn't going to change (and Poch on the vidence so far has been totally inflexible) we have to be realistic... Davies and to a greater extent Fazio aren't going to suddenly develop pace etc. and be able to fundamentally change their game. If they don't fit, then they don't fit.

Having said all that, if I was in charge then personally I think Davies would be a good option as the left centre back in a three, so would keep him for that reason.
 

yido_number1

He'll always be magic
Jun 8, 2004
8,645
16,810
No need to create issues for the squad by moving on a generally solid player. I would like to see a more even split with Rose playing league and Davies all of the cup games this year. Both need to play regularly to keep improving.

Davies does lack Rose's pace but his delivery is generally 10x better.
 

Sweech

Ruh Roh Ressegnon
Jun 27, 2013
6,752
16,378
There's a reason we won't sell Davies. He'll be a left sided centreback in the future.
We tried him there for a bit and he looked good. It was also a position Michael Laudrup said Davies should try playing as well.

Personally I could also see him playing DM. He's shown the defensive and the passing ability for it, what I'd want to see is some more movement as he can be sort of static in his play at times.
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
15,980
48,499
Davies is fine as back up and had a very good period in the side around xmas, including the win over Chelsea. He is still only 22 and willing to provide competition/back up for Rose so I really don't see the problem.

Oglive as back up is ludicrous. It's all very well saying we have to look long term but you have to remember the manager is based mainly in the short-medium term. If he relies on players who are not ready for the first team. Not only does he disrupt their development but he potentially puts his own job at risk.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Davies is fine as back up and had a very good period in the side around xmas, including the win over Chelsea. He is still only 22 and willing to provide competition/back up for Rose so I really don't see the problem.

Oglive as back up is ludicrous. It's all very well saying we have to look long term but you have to remember the manager is based mainly in the short-medium term. If he relies on players who are not ready for the first team. Not only does he disrupt their development but he potentially puts his own job at risk.

This mind set has to alter. Davies had some poor games, as did many other players experienced and purchased (Kaboul, Adebayor, Soldado, Davies, Paulinho, Chirichea - to name some) why is it acceptable for them to risk s manager's job but not a kid we've spent several years preparing to do this job.

When was the last time you saw an academy kid come in and be less effective than any of the above have on many occasions ?
 

THFCSPURS19

The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
Jan 6, 2013
37,886
130,485
This mind set has to alter. Davies had some poor games, as did many other players experienced and purchased (Kaboul, Adebayor, Soldado, Davies, Paulinho, Chirichea - to name some) why is it acceptable for them to risk s manager's job but not a kid we've spent several years preparing to do this job.

When was the last time you saw an academy kid come in and be less effective than any of the above have on many occasions ?

No, you want the mind set to alter (to something completely unrealistic), it doesn't 'have' to at all.
 

y1dk1d

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2012
2,052
4,911
Davies is fine as back up and had a very good period in the side around xmas, including the win over Chelsea. He is still only 22 and willing to provide competition/back up for Rose so I really don't see the problem.

Oglive as back up is ludicrous. It's all very well saying we have to look long term but you have to remember the manager is based mainly in the short-medium term. If he relies on players who are not ready for the first team. Not only does he disrupt their development but he potentially puts his own job at risk.
I could be wrong but I swear Rose started the 5-3 against Chelsea?
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
15,980
48,499
This mind set has to alter. Davies had some poor games, as did many other players experienced and purchased (Kaboul, Adebayor, Soldado, Davies, Paulinho, Chirichea - to name some) why is it acceptable for them to risk s manager's job but not a kid we've spent several years preparing to do this job.

When was the last time you saw an academy kid come in and be less effective than any of the above have on many occasions ?

There is one difference - all the above at some stage in their career have show they can perform at a consistently high level in a first eleven. I like what you're saying in theory but we all know how impatient fans are. If Poch has a couple of dodgy results after chucking in a few green youngsters his neck will soon be on the line and it could also heap unwarranted pressure on the kids. Poch has to weigh up if he trusts the ability of an academy graduate to step up against a player who has more experience and has proven he can perform at high level. With that dilemma I can see why Poch might not always take the riskier option. Although I will say out of all our recent managers I do believe Poch would chuck in a kid if he really felt they had the mentality and ability to make the transition.

We just have to trust Poch's judgement on this. He watches the youth teams more often than any of us and has performance stats readily available to make a more informed judgement than any of us.
 
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y1dk1d

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2012
2,052
4,911
Correct you are. Davies definitely had a solid period in the team around xmas time though.
Yes he did, I think he's a solid player, bot forgetting the fact he's still young. A very good backup that clearly makes Rose play better and if he's happy with a role that means he'll primarily play in the cups and only step in when needed in the PL then I'm more than happy to keep him. He's very capable to start if needed and I don't think we could attract a better "second choice lb" so to say than Davies
 
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