bitcoin

Speedy

Active Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
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642
What do we all think about ICO's?

I'm new to all of this
I see ICOs as like the fa cup 3rd round draw, and putting a bet on a few smaller sides getting through to the semis. At this stage there’s been thousands of coins, and thousands have died. The top 20 on poloniex are long shots never mind coins that havnt even released yet
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
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After a terrible result in the football the only thing that can cheer me up is Bitcoin - which just hit £15k for the first time. Woohoo
 

mattyspurs

The blind man
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
13,912
I see ICOs as like the fa cup 3rd round draw, and putting a bet on a few smaller sides getting through to the semis. At this stage there’s been thousands of coins, and thousands have died. The top 20 on poloniex are long shots never mind coins that havnt even released yet
Cheers mate.
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2004
Messages
43,708
Woah, missed this October article:

The U.S. Justice Department has claimed the proceeds from the sale of 144,336 bitcoins, valued at just over $48 million, that it obtained after shutting down the notorious online drug market Silk Road in 2013
The $48.2 million total proceeds means the government sold the bitcoins for an average of $334. In retrospect, the sale appears to be a matter of bad timing for the government: the price of a bitcoin was as high as $1,000 at the end of 2013 before the digital currency went into a prolonged slump until mid-2016 when it began to soar. The current price is around $4,400—meaning the Justice Department would have made around $630 million had the sale taken place today.
Oops.

http://fortune.com/2017/10/02/bitcoin-sale-silk-road/
 

Rob

The Boss
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21,601
So Ethereum's gone up 20% today and Litecoin up 13% but Bitcoin's been relatively flat (and even dipped slightly). They normally track each other fairly well. Anyone any idea what's happened?
 

wishkah

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Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
2,982
I work for a well global investment bank and I'm leading a mini focus group around how we, as a huge slow bank, can get into the bitcoin/crypto world.

The difficulty is that if we were to be nible and fully embrace we would remove huge chunks of current revenue generation from aspects such as payments/settlements, sales (it's the opaque nature of a market which allows us to charge spreads), alongside the need of value verification.

Therefore our challenge is to see where we could realistically go in the next year or so without harming current revenue streams on day one. Beyond simply selling a products which reference the value of crypto's I have the following thoughts.

1. leverage blockchain for aspects such as KYC. if you hold a wallet with us, you're not a terrorist and should give confidence in counterparties who want to pay receive through it.
2. generate an ETF (a fund) which alongside otherbanks is settled/managed/valued via blockchain. Problem with bitcoin is that we are reliant on suggestively weak websites to hold or manage the ledger - if we could get banks or unhackable firms to hold the ledger this would solve the issue.
3. offer cash settlement of products into bitcion (basically treat it as any other currency).

I've engaged the major consultancies on this but am struggling to find opinions beyond someone telling me what bitcoin is.

If anyone fancys a coffee in London let me know, else if you have ideas hit me up on DM.

Danny and Joey would be so proud that a spurs forum is being used to form the future of the currency markets.
 

Rob

The Boss
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So you're not talking about day-trading BTC but rather managing portfolios for your customers that have some exposure to crypto? Or a full crypto only offering?
 

TriXed

Active Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2011
Messages
416
So Ethereum's gone up 20% today and Litecoin up 13% but Bitcoin's been relatively flat (and even dipped slightly). They normally track each other fairly well. Anyone any idea what's happened?
Ethereum, Litecoin and many other ALT-coins are starting to catch up - Bitcoin has found it's vaule for now unless others believe in it more or the fork happens but now others are finding their vaule based on this. Litecoin for example is spoken as Silver to bit coins Gold, with a vaule that should be 1/4th of Bitcoin. Essentially many ALT-Coins when compared to bitcoin are currently considered unvauled and have been prediticed to steadily rise through to July next year.

Whearther that will happen or not is another thing but all signs point to yes.
 

sly1

Active Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2004
Messages
285
I work for a well global investment bank and I'm leading a mini focus group around how we, as a huge slow bank, can get into the bitcoin/crypto world.

The difficulty is that if we were to be nible and fully embrace we would remove huge chunks of current revenue generation from aspects such as payments/settlements, sales (it's the opaque nature of a market which allows us to charge spreads), alongside the need of value verification.

Therefore our challenge is to see where we could realistically go in the next year or so without harming current revenue streams on day one. Beyond simply selling a products which reference the value of crypto's I have the following thoughts.

1. leverage blockchain for aspects such as KYC. if you hold a wallet with us, you're not a terrorist and should give confidence in counterparties who want to pay receive through it.
2. generate an ETF (a fund) which alongside otherbanks is settled/managed/valued via blockchain. Problem with bitcoin is that we are reliant on suggestively weak websites to hold or manage the ledger - if we could get banks or unhackable firms to hold the ledger this would solve the issue.
3. offer cash settlement of products into bitcion (basically treat it as any other currency).

I've engaged the major consultancies on this but am struggling to find opinions beyond someone telling me what bitcoin is.

If anyone fancys a coffee in London let me know, else if you have ideas hit me up on DM.

Danny and Joey would be so proud that a spurs forum is being used to form the future of the currency markets.
This idea seems interesting. I imagine the pros and cons of it would depend a lot on how you did it. For example, you could have one bank receiving address/wallet through which all incoming bitcoins are received and then sent on to clients' individual wallets (which are verified by the bank to the legitimate). Or the bank could anonymously verify individual wallets (as in, wallet x belongs to an unknown legimitate entity). Or, at the other end of the spectrum, the bank could verify that a given wallet belongs specifically to an particular known entity; I could imagine this being fairly risky though, as any funds that have been through dubious holders in the past could suddenly and unexpectedly be linked to the wallet holder.
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
3,717
I work for a well global investment bank and I'm leading a mini focus group around how we, as a huge slow bank, can get into the bitcoin/crypto world.

The difficulty is that if we were to be nible and fully embrace we would remove huge chunks of current revenue generation from aspects such as payments/settlements, sales (it's the opaque nature of a market which allows us to charge spreads), alongside the need of value verification.

Therefore our challenge is to see where we could realistically go in the next year or so without harming current revenue streams on day one. Beyond simply selling a products which reference the value of crypto's I have the following thoughts.

1. leverage blockchain for aspects such as KYC. if you hold a wallet with us, you're not a terrorist and should give confidence in counterparties who want to pay receive through it.
2. generate an ETF (a fund) which alongside otherbanks is settled/managed/valued via blockchain. Problem with bitcoin is that we are reliant on suggestively weak websites to hold or manage the ledger - if we could get banks or unhackable firms to hold the ledger this would solve the issue.
3. offer cash settlement of products into bitcion (basically treat it as any other currency).

I've engaged the major consultancies on this but am struggling to find opinions beyond someone telling me what bitcoin is.

If anyone fancys a coffee in London let me know, else if you have ideas hit me up on DM.

Danny and Joey would be so proud that a spurs forum is being used to form the future of the currency markets.
The next step for Bitcoin will be ETF imo.
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
3,717
Ethereum, Litecoin and many other ALT-coins are starting to catch up - Bitcoin has found it's vaule for now unless others believe in it more or the fork happens but now others are finding their vaule based on this. Litecoin for example is spoken as Silver to bit coins Gold, with a vaule that should be 1/4th of Bitcoin. Essentially many ALT-Coins when compared to bitcoin are currently considered unvauled and have been prediticed to steadily rise through to July next year.

Whearther that will happen or not is another thing but all signs point to yes.
Bitcoin is stabilising at between 18-19k which is incredible. The current swings are relatively small compared to what has happened before. Alt-coins are getting a nice boost right now as a ton of new money is coming into the market trying to 'get rich quick' and thinking the bitcoin ship has sailed or worse yet that they cant buy a small amount of bitcoin (ignorance).

Alt-coins may have increased in dollar value but the vast majority have lost a ton of value in BTC terms over the last year and are nowhere near back to their level before the massive bitcoin surge - the odd one is doing well though. This is how lots of people will lose money though, picking the wrong one.
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2004
Messages
43,708
More than a few people in Silicon Valley and on Wall Street saw the towering twins as the naïve — if chiseled — faces of the latest tulip bulb mania. Many still do.

But the soaring value of Bitcoin in recent months is giving the brothers a moment of vindication, and quite a bit more than that: Their Bitcoin stockpile was worth around $1.3 billion on Tuesday.
Some of these new Bitcoin millionaires are cashing out and buying Lamborghinis, professional hockey teams or even low-risk bond funds. The Winklevoss twins, though, said they had no intention to diversify.

“We still think it is probably one of the best investments in the world and will be for the decades to come,” Tyler Winklevoss said. “And if it’s not, we’d rather live with disappointment than regret.”

They have collected an additional $350 million or so of other virtual currencies, most of it in the Bitcoin alternative called Ethereum. The brothers are also majority owners of the virtual currency exchange they founded, Gemini, which most likely takes their joint holdings to a value well over $2 billion, or enough to make them each of them a billionaire.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/19/technology/bitcoin-winklevoss-twins.html
 

jonnyrotten

SC Supporter
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
1,014
So, can I move my bitcoin money straight from Coinbase to Bittrex and then use that value to buy the smaller stuff?

I’m sorry for asking lots of questions but want to understand what I’m actually doing.
Yes that's right. Pm me if you need more help
 

wishkah

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
2,982
So you're not talking about day-trading BTC but rather managing portfolios for your customers that have some exposure to crypto? Or a full crypto only offering?
Depends what type of banking you're looking at. i.e. for investment purposes or for transactional purposes.
In the transactional instance it would be the same as having an account with us. some accounts are in Euros, some in Sterling. Why not one BTC - that's all a wallet is really, an account which is verified by blockchain. But with our wallets we'd offer some perks that large corps would like due to being a bit fat ugly bank. Namely we are not going to get hacked so your BTCs are safe and potentially some KYC (know your client) safety - but Sly1 raises some interesting points. I don't see why we would only look at BTC, all crypto's could be added, we're essentially allowing customers to get paid via BTC, it's like saying "we now accept paypal".

The interesting point is that we normally charge for transactions and account services - but blockchain strips out that need. So my challenge is convincing the bank to have a service which shows our traditional services are obsolete. At the moment BTC is too fresh to replace traditional payments for a number of issues.

This idea seems interesting. I imagine the pros and cons of it would depend a lot on how you did it. For example, you could have one bank receiving address/wallet through which all incoming bitcoins are received and then sent on to clients' individual wallets (which are verified by the bank to the legitimate). Or the bank could anonymously verify individual wallets (as in, wallet x belongs to an unknown legimitate entity). Or, at the other end of the spectrum, the bank could verify that a given wallet belongs specifically to an particular known entity; I could imagine this being fairly risky though, as any funds that have been through dubious holders in the past could suddenly and unexpectedly be linked to the wallet holder.
Interesting points, thanks for this. From an outward facing perspective it makes sense. If you pay someone who holds a wallet with us, you know you are paying someone reputable. An from the flip side you would know that if a payment comes from one of our wallets, the source of funds is reputable. What's great is every BTC can be traced back on the general ledger so someone could trade every payment....to a wallet at least.
however I don't know how we account for "the other person". if you have proceeds of crime (either direct, or from historical movements) you could pay into an approved wallet and then it appears to legitimise your cash. Although that's the same as getting a tenner out of the wall, how do you know that tenner was not previously used to buy some weed? I'd love to know the legal implications of what you're on the hook for.

It would be very hard to do, but what if all the banks got together and block-chained their KYC knowledge. One central large pool of client data which live-verifies any transaction (BTC is a good medium to start with).

The spin-off and likely option here is banks create their own cypto - which fixes the above and has the same hallmarks. But thenwe need to make sure it doesn't defeat the part which removes banks in the first place.
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
3,717
Depends what type of banking you're looking at. i.e. for investment purposes or for transactional purposes.
In the transactional instance it would be the same as having an account with us. some accounts are in Euros, some in Sterling. Why not one BTC - that's all a wallet is really, an account which is verified by blockchain. But with our wallets we'd offer some perks that large corps would like due to being a bit fat ugly bank. Namely we are not going to get hacked so your BTCs are safe and potentially some KYC (know your client) safety - but Sly1 raises some interesting points. I don't see why we would only look at BTC, all crypto's could be added, we're essentially allowing customers to get paid via BTC, it's like saying "we now accept paypal".

The interesting point is that we normally charge for transactions and account services - but blockchain strips out that need. So my challenge is convincing the bank to have a service which shows our traditional services are obsolete. At the moment BTC is too fresh to replace traditional payments for a number of issues.



Interesting points, thanks for this. From an outward facing perspective it makes sense. If you pay someone who holds a wallet with us, you know you are paying someone reputable. An from the flip side you would know that if a payment comes from one of our wallets, the source of funds is reputable. What's great is every BTC can be traced back on the general ledger so someone could trade every payment....to a wallet at least.
however I don't know how we account for "the other person". if you have proceeds of crime (either direct, or from historical movements) you could pay into an approved wallet and then it appears to legitimise your cash. Although that's the same as getting a tenner out of the wall, how do you know that tenner was not previously used to buy some weed? I'd love to know the legal implications of what you're on the hook for.

It would be very hard to do, but what if all the banks got together and block-chained their KYC knowledge. One central large pool of client data which live-verifies any transaction (BTC is a good medium to start with).

The spin-off and likely option here is banks create their own cypto - which fixes the above and has the same hallmarks. But thenwe need to make sure it doesn't defeat the part which removes banks in the first place.
Must be really interesting to work in the banking sector while crypto starts to take off. The potential is there to make banks pretty redundant if bitcoin, etc. become truely mainstream. The banks will simply have to adapt or they will be destroyed imo.
 

wishkah

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
2,982
Must be really interesting to work in the banking sector while crypto starts to take off. The potential is there to make banks pretty redundant if bitcoin, etc. become truely mainstream. The banks will simply have to adapt or they will be destroyed imo.
it took us four years to agree a new shade of blue to use on our powerpoints.....problem is we are too big and slow and set in our ways. I think it would be amazing working in a fund, or "NBFI" (non bank financial institution).

But I do want to get excited about it and adapt as we need to.....hence getting ideas from you lovely people
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
3,717
it took us four years to agree a new shade of blue to use on our powerpoints.....problem is we are too big and slow and set in our ways. I think it would be amazing working in a fund, or "NBFI" (non bank financial institution).

But I do want to get excited about it and adapt as we need to.....hence getting ideas from you lovely people
I think banks will likely have to embrace it - whether that means they create the 'digital sterling' or whatever is anybody's guess. The big problem banks will have is why would anybody use a wallet from a bank when they can easily make a paper wallet or buy a hardware wallet and have their coins perfectly safe without the need of a bank. That is your problem long term.

I can see how if a bank acted very quickly they could really benefit from creating a wallet now with the safety guarantees you stated hoovering up a lot of newer people to the market (i.e. most people) as they simply do not fully understand what is happening yet. You could charge a small fee (in BTC) for the service and likely make an absolute killing. So short-term there are definitely opportunities out there if you move quick. A lot of people are put off crypto right now due to the fear of 'hacking' whilst not really understanding how to protect themselves. If you can offer a guarantee they won't get hacked then there is value there (for the people who don't know any better).
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
Joined
May 5, 2005
Messages
17,696
Crypto is not for the faint hearted thats for sure. This is essentially the gold rush x 2 - its an entirely new platform that will likely transform the financial world. For every one coin that makes it another 50 will disappear. You gotta do your research and only put in what you are prepared to lose. There is potential to make a massive amount of cash here if you get lucky.
Where to start?

As someone who'd been reading about this stuff for months I'm finally at the point where I am confident I can afford to invest some money and lose it if it all goes tits up and not be too bothered, but as to where to actually go about starting to invest I have absolutely no idea.

It seems a good idea to spread investment across a handful of currencies but there are so many trading apps, websites etc which claim to work that I honestly have no idea where to start.

Anyone got any tips for a noob? How do I start myself off on the journey?