bitcoin

HildoSpur

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Alex Hern does, and he’s anti bitcoin generally. I watched a bbc report yesterday and the guy literally said “it’s going to zero”. It’s one thing to be negative about something, but the guy ignored the previous 1000% growth year on year in order to say the last two weeks were the end. What a complete tool.

But fundamentally, until a crypto finds a nailed on use, it’s still not got a current purpose outside of speculation and wealth preservation so the price will bounce around until sufficient people use it/accept it globally. I suspect a financial crash will see fireworks, perhaps a interest rate rise or a policy shift in China or Japan
He really doesn't get it. The vast majority of articles on Bitcoin in the Guardian have been laughable. Bitcoin already has a use - it's an alternative store of wealth outside of the banking system that is totally secure (if you store it correctly). If another financial crash happens the amount of cash flowing into bitcoin/gold/etc. will skyrocket.
 

HildoSpur

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My understanding is that plenty of coins, cryptos etc are vastly different to Bitcoin and well, each other aren’t they?

I know Ethereum for example is different to Bitcoin.

The naysayers also to seem as deluded as the crypto fanboys. I think the whole crypto thing falls somewhere in between. It’s got some sort of future imo, even if it ends up being completely different to what we currently see, it will have derived from Bitcoin and co.

Then again, I know very little! I would certainly be dubious about people vehemently saying it’s gonna crash soon/serves no purpose etc, just as I would about those who “guarantee” each Bitcoin will be worth a million quid in ten years.
Just some real basic two minute research will show its “crashed” far harder 3/4 times in the past than what we are seeing now, only to recover and surpass previous record values.

I won’t be investing as I struggle to understand it all to be honest, but I find it interesting.

People compare it to the dotcom boom as if that’s a bad thing. That might not be all bad. Imagine getting in on Amazon or google during the dotcom bubble! I assume that’s what people are betting on in this crypto thing...the next google etc?
The thing about bitcoin that makes it unique is that it is 100% decentralised - this is why it's the only crypto-currency that really matters.
 

Speedy

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He really doesn't get it. The vast majority of articles on Bitcoin in the Guardian have been laughable. Bitcoin already has a use - it's an alternative store of wealth outside of the banking system that is totally secure (if you store it correctly). If another financial crash happens the amount of cash flowing into bitcoin/gold/etc. will skyrocket.
Yes, don’t get me wrong, it’s got advantages as a wealth store. But most people don’t invest in anything at all in their lifetimes, apart from a pension or property - and are not by law allowed to buy shares unless they are certified as investors, which means someone has seen their balance sheets and they are over a set amount usually £100k, fraud checks and money laundering checks, the lot. If you want to buy into a company which is floating you have to be certified, especially in the US, so the barriers to normal people are often too high and restricted to the safest products like ISAs and pensions. You can’t just buy shares in Apple, except as a derivative on an mobile app which is a rip off. I suspect this is where the negativity comes from in the press, they are actually required by law to persuade people to not gamble, especially with ludicrous returns and price swings of crypto. So I don’t blame them really. If you take the mortgage laws as a example, that is so tightly regulated you can almost never be conned, or tricked, or given anything but the cheapest mortgages available because it’s so important that people,don’t get ripped off. And still people mess it up and get the wrong ones.
 

SugarRay

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The thing about bitcoin that makes it unique is that it is 100% decentralised - this is why it's the only crypto-currency that really matters.
Surely that can also be a negative long term though?

I notice those slagging it off are usually representatives of the establishment. They usually get what they want eventually
 

HildoSpur

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Surely that can also be a negative long term though?

I notice those slagging it off are usually representatives of the establishment. They usually get what they want eventually
They are the ones who have most to lose if bitcoin succeeds.
 

HildoSpur

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Yeah, it’s exactly why I think they won’t let it happen long term.
How can they stop it though? This is a worldwide thing - even if one country bans it (the exchanges)... still hundreds around the world that won't and since it's all decentralised so there is no one server or group of people to bring down. The horse has bolted.
 
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Woodyy

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Interesting to see where it all goes, I sold my Bitcoin at about £11k per coin when it had just started tanking, bought back in again recently. Bought myself 1 Litecoin today as well at about £105, not sure if it'll get back up to nearly £300 but we'll see. If it gets anywhere near £200 I'll probably sell, I'm hoping the announcement of LitePay will see the value go up. Ethereum seems to be the one that holds it's value the best, the value graphs for Bitcoin and LTC are almost the same whereas Eth hasn't been hit quite as hard during the recent crashes. Not sure whether to buy into Ethereum as well?
 

jonnyrotten

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Interesting to see where it all goes, I sold my Bitcoin at about £11k per coin when it had just started tanking, bought back in again recently. Bought myself 1 Litecoin today as well at about £105, not sure if it'll get back up to nearly £300 but we'll see. If it gets anywhere near £200 I'll probably sell, I'm hoping the announcement of LitePay will see the value go up. Ethereum seems to be the one that holds it's value the best, the value graphs for Bitcoin and LTC are almost the same whereas Eth hasn't been hit quite as hard during the recent crashes. Not sure whether to buy into Ethereum as well?
Bitcoin and Litecoin are currencies. Ethereum is a blockchain. I think Ethereum will be around in ten years but the currencies that currently exist wont. Just my view.
 

ItsBoris

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Yes, don’t get me wrong, it’s got advantages as a wealth store. But most people don’t invest in anything at all in their lifetimes, apart from a pension or property - and are not by law allowed to buy shares unless they are certified as investors, which means someone has seen their balance sheets and they are over a set amount usually £100k, fraud checks and money laundering checks, the lot. If you want to buy into a company which is floating you have to be certified, especially in the US, so the barriers to normal people are often too high and restricted to the safest products like ISAs and pensions. You can’t just buy shares in Apple, except as a derivative on an mobile app which is a rip off. I suspect this is where the negativity comes from in the press, they are actually required by law to persuade people to not gamble, especially with ludicrous returns and price swings of crypto. So I don’t blame them really. If you take the mortgage laws as a example, that is so tightly regulated you can almost never be conned, or tricked, or given anything but the cheapest mortgages available because it’s so important that people,don’t get ripped off. And still people mess it up and get the wrong ones.
What do you mean you can't just buy shares in Apple? You mean with bitcoin? Or have I misunderstood your point?
 

ItsBoris

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Got to admit, I was (and still am to an extent) very tempted to buy some Bitcoin. I think the principle behind cryptocurrency as far as I understand it is very bloody clever. However, this article sums up my doubts. Why, as the analogy to the cancer pill suggests, can something that's built on open source code, that anyone can reproduce as they want, have so much value? Even if Bitcoin is a perfect system, which from what I hear it's very far off being, what's to stop someone making their own version?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jan/15/should-i-invest-bitcoin-dont-mr-money-moustache
You could ask the same question of any network - Facebook, for example. Anyone can set up their own social networking app, but what gives Facebook value as a network is its number of existing users. I'm sure there are social network apps out there that have a much better interface and usability than Facebook, but we're not all jumping ship to go to those apps because Facebook has a bunch of other people using it, which is what gives it its real value.

You can pretty accurately predict the value of any network as being proportional to the square of the number of users: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe's_law

It's also entirely possible that bitcoin is analogous to something like myspace - like a way for people to dip their toes into the world of cryptocurrencies before a new, superior one becomes more ubiquitous, kind of like how myspace was the first use of social networking for many people but has since died out basically. Myspace lost value as its number of users declined and the same would be true of any cryptocurrency.
 

Speedy

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What do you mean you can't just buy shares in Apple? You mean with bitcoin? Or have I misunderstood your point?
No, I mean it’s unlikely for a normal person to have any kind of investments because the barriers are quite high. The point is that the media has to protect consumers, so its not really hard to understand why they write negative articles all day long. Imagine if the bbc told everyone to go and dump £50k of your grandkids house deposit fund into some shitcoin ico! It’s just the nature of civilised reporting that they encourage the safest option and warn when sharks are circling.
 

olliec

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Bitcoin and Litecoin are currencies. Ethereum is a blockchain. I think Ethereum will be around in ten years but the currencies that currently exist wont. Just my view.
Wouldn't be so sure about that. Might want to check this out about litecoin.

www.litepay.us

and litepal

LitePal is a Litecoin first payment processor. A cryptocurrency world where Litecoin is exploited by merchants from all over the world; a streamlined, simple, less confusing process.

LitePal is expected to be released later this year. According to the official website, users will be able to use the service with PayPal, Western Union, Bitcoin and Litecoin, and the fees will be "bumpy low". Except for the vague word landing page, there is not yet any information about this service.

These two payment methods are huge game changers in the crypto world.

Hence why I invested so heavily in Litecoin.
 

neilp

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There is a Panorama programme on Bitcoin on BBC 1 starting now (8.30)
Actually it wasn’t that informative, just highlighting the millions people have made and the people who have lost loads - mainly through con tricks and pyramid schemes.
 

wishkah

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Jan 27, 2011
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I'm pitching to become my global banks head of fintech risk. With my risk hat on I see five buckets

-cryptos (wholesale, retail and Tokens/Coins)
-DLT application for internal / external processes
- Open Banking (retail v Investment banking), API and platforming
- AI and robotics
- challengers / value chain replacement

so far we've had a number of fintechs in who've shown how they can destroy us (so wanting to partner). and a number of consultancies showing us how we can position.

If anyone has some views, or generally is interested in this stuff, please let me know. Noting this thread is on the first bullet, we are considering becoming a bitcoin exchange, clearing the futures, and also using [insert bank] as a trusted intermediary to hold your coins, trade your coins, and check you're only sending them to nice people.
 

wishkah

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I'm not sure where Smart Contracts fit into that but they should.
they do indeed old bean.

Smart contracts are being looked at in two ways.
1) through trade finance / any process which requires multiple users to update the lifecycle of something happening
2) remove the concept of wallets in the future. the smart contract replaces the wallet as the "system" or "ledger" knows who owns what....so why do you need to confirm that outside of the blockchain.
 
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