Bitterness for Sherwood

[Drink!Drink!]

Hearsay. I'll reserve judgment.

Er wasn't it rather well established that it was Sherwood who briefed that vile Sun journo that the squad were unhappy with AVB for the shock horror splash that was published on the morning of our trip to Man U. Of course Tim's cunning plan was undermined by the fact that we went up there played well and won

Harry, Jamie and Tim were a triangle of poison constantly bitching to their tabloid mates during AVB's time

 

[Matthew Wyatt]

Put yourself in AVB's boots. You've won four trophies (including a European trophy) by the age of 33 after only two seasons in management. Yet someone below you who doesn't have any of the necessary qualifications (which you have held since the age of 19) is after your job and is constantly trying to undermine you in order to get it.

Quite so, one needs to wear everyone's boots.

 

[spurs mental]

Er wasn't it rather well established that it was Sherwood who briefed that vile Sun journo that the squad were unhappy with AVB for the shock horror splash that was published on the morning of our trip to Man U. Of course Tim's cunning plan was undermined by the fact that we went up there played well and won

Harry, Jamie and Tim were a triangle of poison constantly bitching to their tabloid mates during AVB's time

That was a great day. His celebrations still sits firmly in my memory as one of the best moments of his time with us.

 

[Matthew Wyatt]

Er wasn't it rather well established that it was Sherwood who briefed that vile Sun journo that the squad were unhappy with AVB for the shock horror splash that was published on the morning of our trip to Man U. Of course Tim's cunning plan was undermined by the fact that we went up there played well and won

Harry, Jamie and Tim were a triangle of poison constantly bitching to their tabloid mates during AVB's time

Possibly, but that's what people do -- gang up and pick on other people. Had Sherwood been actively working to sabotage the club I doubt it would've escaped Levy's notice and why would he give the top job to such a person? AVB's Spurs were dreary, Bale aside, but I do feel sorry for the poor sod being hung out to dry. He was Pochettino's canary in a coal mine.

 

[Kiedis]

Just by reading David Hytners stuff towards the end of AVBs reign and some of the stuff he came out with during Sherwoods reign makes it very easy to see that Sherwood was feeding him a lot of info (that may or may not be accurate) that undermined AVB and put pressure on both the team and the club itself.

 

[whitesocks]

Just by reading David Hytners stuff towards the end of AVBs reign and some of the stuff he came out with during Sherwoods reign makes it very easy to see that Sherwood was feeding him a lot of info (that may or may not be accurate) that undermined AVB and put pressure on both the team and the club itself.

I agree and it easy to work out why - AVB suddenly declared he wanted a DoF and that left Sherwood no-where to go.
What is still a mystery was why Sherwood wasn't told to shut up. And who was his guardian angel who protected him in the post Redknapp cull?

 

[eddiebailey]

I agree and it easy to work out why - AVB suddenly declared he wanted a DoF and that left Sherwood no-where to go.
What is still a mystery was why Sherwood wasn't told to shut up. And who was his guardian angel who protected him in the post Redknapp cull?

There is no reason why Sherwood should have been culled when Redknapp went. Villas-Boas was responsible for first team coaching, not development. Villas-Boas brought in his own first team coaching staff, as is the way these days, but there were no changes at development level, which remained Sherwood's fief. Sherwood had a good relationship with Levy dating back to his playing days. Indeed I always had the impression that the appointment of Sherwood and Ferdinand after the dismissal of Ramos owed more to Levy than to Redknapp. Levy has form for this, foisting Poyet on Ramos and Freund on Villas-Boas. It is interesting that the Pochettino era is the first period under the Levy regime when we have had had no former players on the coaching staff (unless you include Burch, McKenna and Wells at youth team level).

The feud between Villas-Boas and Sherwood seems to have had its origins in Villas-Boas' lack of interest in developing Sherwood's development squad protégés through to the first team, though doubtless personal and footballing issues also played a part. Sherwood may have been ahead of the curve on this, but it seems that by the time of Villas-Boas departure Sherwood's take on the Portuguese was widely shared in the upper echelons of the club. Opinions will of course differ as to whether Sherwood was the first to call the Emperor's new clothes or a Wormtongue in Levy's ear, but based on what I saw on the pitch I incline to the former interpretation; at any rate it is clear that Villas-Boas did himself no favours in his handling of the board and I doubt that any whispering from Sherwood did much to hasten his inevitable departure.

Sherwood certainly could not have assumed that Villas-Boas departure would inevitably lead to his own elevation; indeed both van Gaal and de Boer were approached in the immediate aftermath. So there was no obvious self-interest in him undermining the Portuguese coach simply for the sake of doing so, though obviously Sherwood may have had concerns that the poor returns on our development set up under Villas-Boas could reflect badly on him, and he may therefore have been seeking to protect his own position. Sherwood had not actually shown much eagerness to get into management up to that point: he had allegedly rejected approaches from his former club Blackburn and had not been bothered to finish collecting his coaching badges. I suspect that had Pochettino been appointed as Redknapp's immediate successor that Sherwood would still be at the club and working more or less harmoniously with the Argentine. Sherwood's former role has been largely recreated under McDermott, so presumably Pochettino at least sees value in the job description.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

For the sake of argument let's assume that to be true. Now put yourself in Sherwood's boots. After four years under a successful old-school English manager he's answerable to a much younger man with fanciful ideas, no playing career and a failed start in English football, and who wants rid of him, just to add insult to injury. It was a match made in Hell and I'm not sure we can blame either man for that. Levy should have backed AVB and sacked Sherwood and anyone else he didn't want, or he should have kept Redknapp. What a mess.

I'm not a Sherwood apologist, just playing Devil's advocate, They're both history now and clearly Levy has learnt lessons. I'm sure the gory details will come out in someone's autobiography before too long.

If a poster I thought less of than you posted this, I'd say that the person doesn't quite grasp the idea of devil's advocate.
Already as a young professional player, Sherwood would try to one-up people in his way. For instance about captaincies etc. That's just who he is.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

There is no reason why Sherwood should have been culled when Redknapp went. Villas-Boas was responsible for first team coaching, not development. Villas-Boas brought in his own first team coaching staff, as is the way these days, but there were no changes at development level, which remained Sherwood's fief. Sherwood had a good relationship with Levy dating back to his playing days. Indeed I always had the impression that the appointment of Sherwood and Ferdinand after the dismissal of Ramos owed more to Levy than to Redknapp. Levy has form for this, foisting Poyet on Ramos and Freund on Villas-Boas. It is interesting that the Pochettino era is the first period under the Levy regime when we have had had no former players on the coaching staff (unless you include Burch, McKenna and Wells at youth team level).

The feud between Villas-Boas and Sherwood seems to have had its origins in Villas-Boas' lack of interest in developing Sherwood's development squad protégés through to the first team, though doubtless personal and footballing issues also played a part. Sherwood may have been ahead of the curve on this, but it seems that by the time of Villas-Boas departure Sherwood's take on the Portuguese was widely shared in the upper echelons of the club. Opinions will of course differ as to whether Sherwood was the first to call the Emperor's new clothes or a Wormtongue in Levy's ear, but based on what I saw on the pitch I incline to the former interpretation; at any rate it is clear that Villas-Boas did himself no favours in his handling of the board and I doubt that any whispering from Sherwood did much to hasten his inevitable departure.

Sherwood certainly could not have assumed that Villas-Boas departure would inevitably lead to his own elevation; indeed both van Gaal and de Boer were approached in the immediate aftermath. So there was no obvious self-interest in him undermining the Portuguese coach simply for the sake of doing so, though obviously Sherwood may have had concerns that the poor returns on our development set up under Villas-Boas could reflect badly on him, and he may therefore have been seeking to protect his own position. Sherwood had not actually shown much eagerness to get into management up to that point: he had allegedly rejected approaches from his former club Blackburn and had not been bothered to finish collecting his coaching badges. I suspect that had Pochettino been appointed as Redknapp's immediate successor that Sherwood would still be at the club and working more or less harmoniously with the Argentine. Sherwood's former role has been largely recreated under McDermott, so presumably Pochettino at least sees value in the job description.

Harmonious hasn't exactly been a byword of Sherwood's career has it EB? I don't think Pochettino strikes me as being the type who would enjoy being told who and when he should be playing or how to do his job any more than AVB did the before he'd even got his feet under the table.

It wasn't even a byword of his brief stint as Spurs manager, where every defeat was met with a "who, out of the people that can't stand here and defend themselves, can I blame this week".

For someone with not much eagerness for management he couldn't jump into AVB's grave - which he'd clearly help to dig - much quicker could he? Why an earth would he take the Blackburn job and have to graft, prove himself as a coach and manager when with a bit of judicious ear tonguing he knew he could walk into a top job with much better resources.

And I'm pretty sure if Levy hadn't seen Sherwood for what he is - a malignant chancer - he would have either not given him the managers job and kept him on - as technical coordinator of assuming credit for everything other people did - or he wouldn't have sacked him as manager after doing a perfectly acceptable job of totting up points.

And if it was Emperors new clothes syndrome with AVB, a bloke who at least has achieved things and did a perfectly good job with Spurs, it's been a case Emperor caught naked and bouncing cheques his gob wrote but bare arse couldn't cash with Sherwood's managerial career hasn't it.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

For the sake of argument let's assume that to be true. Now put yourself in Sherwood's boots. After four years under a successful old-school English manager he's answerable to a much younger man with fanciful ideas, no playing career and a failed start in English football, and who wants rid of him, just to add insult to injury. It was a match made in Hell and I'm not sure we can blame either man for that. Levy should have backed AVB and sacked Sherwood and anyone else he didn't want, or he should have kept Redknapp. What a mess.

I'm not a Sherwood apologist, just playing Devil's advocate, They're both history now and clearly Levy has learnt lessons. I'm sure the gory details will come out in someone's autobiography before too long.

This is what I have said, I believe Levy learnt a big lesson with the whole AVB thing and Pochettino has benefitted from that lesson learnt.

You want a manager/coach to succeed you create the best environment in which he can do that, not put obstacles in their way and have factions within the club pulling in different directions.

 

[Matthew Wyatt]

If a poster I thought less of than you posted this, I'd say that the person doesn't quite grasp the idea of devil's advocate.
Already as a young professional player, Sherwood would try to one-up people in his way. For instance about captaincies etc. That's just who he is.

As Devil's advocate I've taken a contrary position with which I don't necessarily agree (Sherwood being maligned rather than malignant) in order to test arguments and further the debate. Is that not your idea of Devil's advocate?

As for your second point, your claims are vague and unsubstantiated, but even so I don't see how they hold Sherwood apart from his peers. We're talking about ambitious and extremely competitive young men trying to get ahead in a ruthless, high-stakes game, so of course it gets a bit nasty. But it is just a game -- a child's job,as someone said about acting -- so I'm not sure one can hold them to the highest standards.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

#askTim

Doing a Q&A for Football Manager


Bankrupt ‏@bankruptspurs 3h3 hours ago
More
@FootballManager @Squawka My lower league loans to "toughen up" youth players aren't working. How can I still claim credit later on? #AskTim



Steven Endersby ‏@SGEndersby 3h3 hours ago
More
@FootballManager @Squawka My backroom staff are leaking info to their mates in the press with the aim of taking my job. What can I do?


James Knight ‏@MFoxx2 3h3 hours ago
More
@FootballManager @Squawka Should the defensive midfield position be abolished in FM18? #AskTim

 

[Bensonrecon]

I've had fun on twitter with that too, shame it's being done on facebook live

 

[jurgen]

Definite future West Ham manager

 

[NEVILLEB]

Danny Rose

"I've known Tim since he came to the club in 2008 and he's been great for me. A couple of seasons ago when he was a manager here I wasn't playing that well and he stuck by me every game, played me every game that I was fit and gave me great advice.

"When I was on loan at Sunderland, whenever there was a game that was on TV Tim was the first person to text me and tell me I'd done well, so I've got a great relationship with him and I hope he comes back into football as soon as possible."

He's a PR disaster but there's no doubt he's partly responsible for players like Kane and Rose making their breakthrough.

 

[spursfan77]

Danny Rose

"I've known Tim since he came to the club in 2008 and he's been great for me. A couple of seasons ago when he was a manager here I wasn't playing that well and he stuck by me every game, played me every game that I was fit and gave me great advice.

"When I was on loan at Sunderland, whenever there was a game that was on TV Tim was the first person to text me and tell me I'd done well, so I've got a great relationship with him and I hope he comes back into football as soon as possible."

He's a PR disaster but there's no doubt he's partly responsible for players like Kane and Rose making their breakthrough.

I don't think there's any doubt he was good looking after young players but as a person and a manager he's an absolute ****.

There's some great questions on the #askTim on twitter.

 

[ClintEastwould]

23h23 hours ago
Bankrupt ‏@bankruptspurs
@FootballManager @Squawka All my players' fitness ratings only go to 100%. Any idea how I can get them up to 110%? #AskTim

 

[Frozen_Waffles]

Still with the Sherwood hate?

His main duty, before he was manager was to oversee the movement of talented youngsters to the first team.

He would be there to link the two. Pochettino, imo, was appointed as he had the same philosophy in promoting youth players and Levy wanted to keep that idea. The same reason LVG was a preferred choice as manager.

Over his time he has helped the development of Rose, Kane, Mason, Carroll and Bentaleb. There maybe more.

Taking away personal opinions of his media persona he has been a success. To now say that he had little influence and that he is a whatever is a disgrace.

He is not perfect, but for me he had passion for the club, still talks highly of the club and was a big influence on our successful youth system.

Far be it from me to get in the way of personal prejudice.

 

[SandroClegane]

Still with the Sherwood hate?

His main duty, before he was manager was to oversee the movement of talented youngsters to the first team.

He would be there to link the two. Pochettino, imo, was appointed as he had the same philosophy in promoting youth players and Levy wanted to keep that idea. The same reason LVG was a preferred choice as manager.

Over his time he has helped the development of Rose, Kane, Mason, Carroll and Bentaleb. There maybe more.

Taking away personal opinions of his media persona he has been a success. To now say that he had little influence and that he is a whatever is a disgrace.

He is not perfect, but for me he had passion for the club, still talks highly of the club and was a big influence on our successful youth system.

Far be it from me to get in the way of personal prejudice.

Fuck Tim Sherwood.

 

[aliyid]

Not going well for poor Timmy down at Swindon

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...0/Tim-Sherwood-won-just-19-games-Swindon.html