Spain are playing football from another planet !

First off, brilliant goal by Bostock, it was a peach of a strike, well done lad.

Secondly, the ridiculous part about the game yesterday and about any Spanish team is that they don't do anything that ANY other team can't do. Playing a possession game is very, very simple but England's problem yesterday and same goes for the full team is that we're often too impatient and too direct.

There were times when our centre halves just wanted to lump it down field and all it did was give the ball back to Spain to allow them to stroke it about. The main difference is that Spain have far more patience and discipline to playing a passing game and stick to it. If we really wanted to play that way then we could.

Don't get me wrong, Spanish players are technically excellent and arguably more so than english players but not by a lot and if you looked at the sides yesterday we were physically SO much bigger than them, stonger and just as quick and had we been more patient and more clinical in front of goal we'd have competed far more on the day cos at the back the Spanish were distinctly average!

Question mate !
How many of the England players do you think,could get in the Spanish side ?

I think we need to look at why are Spain generally producing individually more technically gifted players and playing better football as a team as well.

Here's my 2 cents worth -

1. The climate - most of Spain is not as wet and as cold as England therefore kids can be outside longer playing football. It's also hotter so you can't run around at full pace for as long as you can when it is cooler so you have more time on the ball.

2. Concrete & asphalt - I have been to a lot of places in Spain and there are a lot of outdoor tennis courts, basketball courts & mini football pitches which are very hard and bouncy. You have to learn very quickly to control the ball and get it down to play.

3. Player numbers - I don't know what they are but in England a lot of people play other winter sports such as Rugby union and league. Football is still number one but I'd be surprised if England had anywhere near the numbers of Spain.

4. The diet - and this is related to the climate as well but I know whenever I go to Spain I lose weight and eat a lot more heathy foods. I think it is related to the heat but I certainly don't see the number of overweight people there as here in England.

5. Alcohol - there is a real drinking culture in England which Spain doesn't have. Sure they drink but it's not to the extremes and it's not as pervasive as England.

6. History - Real Madrid & especially Barcaleona - have been trying to play this push & pass type of football way before Bill Nick introduced it with such effect to Spurs. And they believe vehemently that it's the way the beautiful game should be played and so it is instilled from a very early age.

I was working in Barcelona recently. I was taken out by some Spanish acquaintances where we ate a whole deep-fried pig's face and I just about managed to keep up with their drinking. I'd argue those 2 points

Other than those 2, good post. The history one is probably key, these kids are more comfortable on the ball, their footballing culture is different. I think shorter forms of the game have been introduced at the very youngest levels in the UK now to give kids more time on the ball - it's mainly 5- to 8-a-side until they're secondary school age. But that'll take at least a decade before those kids grow up, and we start catching up.

I think guillem balague was spot on when he said after the Germany world cup Spain decided they were going to start to maintain possession of the ball more and so far they haven't given it back yet.

Apart from that it is the philosphy of 'entre líneas' (between lines ... of the oppositions formation) as it is called here that Spain and Barca do so well. Basically, they play alot of small passes centrally to create a small piece of space between the midfield and the defence. It often starts when a central defender eg Piqué pushes into midfield allowing a midfielder eg Xavi or Iniesta to push past their opposing midfielder.

When either of those two get the ball in those areas central defenders don't know whether to come out or stay which causes real problems. If they do come out a small triangle pass will allow someone like Villa (or Messi when he comes inside at Barca) to run onto the ball in the area.

Add to that Alves at Barca and Ramos at Madrid push so far forward the backline of the opposition get overloaded by players with high levels of movement and rapid short passes. This causes problems when defences don't push out to cover Xavi and co as they are faced with endless crosses from the byline which tends to result in a goals against very defensive sides.

I'd disagree. Technically Spanish players are far superior to the English. The first touch of most premier league players is shocking compared to Spanish and South American players. And secondly the awareness and movement is on another level, along with playing the game with your head up. It's very deliberate that there are hardly any English players at Arsenal.

That may be but it's largely because of coaching is it not? Spanish players are taught from an early age to play a certain way, i.e. with their head up and to pass quickly and often.

It would be ridiculous to suggest that Spanish footballers are born with this natural gift, there are plenty of shit players in Spain as well as good ones remember.

England has a culture of coaching to be direct and fast in our build up play and it is taught at early age and is largely all we know.

What I'm saying is that we COULD play their style of football if we really wanted to. I'm not saying we'd be better than them at it, we wouldn't necessarily be far off either.

I honestly don't know enough about the individual players in the under 19 sides of each to be to answer that but I would take the 2 centre halves for england straight away and maybe the full backs as well but as i say that's only cos what i saw of spain they had a rubbish back line.

O.K. time to vent ones spleen..........

Until our Youths are provided with a playing surface equal to their actual size (in proportion) then defensive playes will always hoof the ball to another player. We have all seen kids trying to play footie on a full size pitch and its' like watching a swarm of bees moving around a garden the size of Hyde Park. Kids need smaller pitches, or even play across the width of a normal pitch in order to hone close ball control skills and to learn the art of keeping the ball!

Coaches like Blake come from the old school of thinking and you can see that in the way England youth teams perform game in game out. If things don't change then they will stay the same. Piss poor coaching produces piss poor players (in numbers) and the exceptions are those few who are born with the talent required to match the Spanish and Latin Americans.

I cannot remember who said it but i can remember reading an ex -manager saying that Hoddle was a luxury England could ill afford. God knows why we have non footballers or non football managers represented at the F.A. It's a bit like asking King Herod to run the local kids play school.

The games up, and no one wants to own up to running a sinking ship led by people with their heads firmly buried up their arses. Until sweeping changes are made to managing and coaching our kids expect more results like the U.S.A. game. We are as good as what you are seeing at International level. It's the media circus that is building this "Golden Generation" (a fucking stupid tag) to be the next coming of Saint George. In truth they are fools Gold, and nothing better without their fellow European counterparts playing alongside them and making them look better than they actually are. Lampard and Gerrard are perfect examples of other players making them look good at League level.

That is all!

Rant over.

I think that he big difference is that they love the ball.
They want the ball, they caress the ball when they haven't got it they move so that they can get it.

We don't like the ball. It's not our friend. When it comes towards us we get nervous and fail to control it or whack it as far away as possible.

When we get a player who loves the ball we tell him to 'get rid'. Taarabt is a figure of fun even at Spurs. We don't know how to integrate him into the team.

'There were times when our centre halves just wanted to lump it down field and all it did was give the ball back to Spain to allow them to stroke it about. The main difference is that Spain have far more patience and discipline to playing a passing game and stick to it. If we really wanted to play that way then we could.'

And at Spurs we often do until the Crouch effect takes over. That's why the lad comes in for so much stick because he makes us revert to type. Even with Modric and Huddlestone in the side the 'British' element takes over.

Learn to love that ball and the effects of diet, climate or whatever can be overcome. Take it to bed with you, take it for walks, make it your next of kin. marry it in a civil partnership. Whatever it takes.

:clap::clap::clap::clap: Top post mate !

Good comments made generally. For what it's worth here are my views.

Steve Caulker and Dean Parrett were the best English players throughout the tournament ( I watched all the games). For the life of me i could not understand how certain players were even selected ( Reece Brown(Man U), Ryan Donaldson (Newcastle ) and Ryan Noble (Sunderland) ).
The passing at times was actually pathetic. The back 4 (presumeably told to pass to each other in order to create space and wait for an opening) passes across the back line in a slow and ponderous manner then finally either booting it upfield or knocking into a midfield player, who knocked it back to them and the whole process starts again. The two English forwards NOUBLE and DELFOUNESO were told to go wide (presumeably to stretch opposing defences and allowing midfielders to run through), this had the effect of allowing continental centre backs to push up and outnumber the English MF. In nearly all games England lost the midfield. I could go on , but what really was the problem is that basically English players are THICK and unfortunately that also includes the Manager Mr Blake.

I think the Spanish knew this hence the free-kick.

This is one of the best and most thoughtful debates here for quite a while. I really like the 'love the ball' comment. Many other good points and some I disagree with, but all well worth the read. Thanks folk.

I'd just like to add a little to a point made by SorrellSpurs and the following comment by:

'mancman'

' . . . , but what really was the problem is that basically English players are THICK and unfortunately that also includes the Manager Mr Blake.'

Now I know this is a generality and there will be many exceptions but at many schools and most universities rugby is the preferred winter sport. So the more intelligent players tend towards rugby whereas footballers tend to be less bright. So the average 'brightness' of the Spanish youngsters is likely to be higher than that of their UK peers. So they have a quicker and better understanding of the game. They can, and indeed need to play 'with their heads up'.

And when their time as players is over our home grown products go into coaching and management, and so the level of thoughtfulness in our game stays the same, because that is what they know. A quick comparison between many home grown managers and their continental counterparts points to the more cerebral continental approach.

Please note that this is just a difference. An ex player with an instinctive skill in management, Cloughy or Harry, can be just as effective as a Wenger. An instinctive player like a Gazza or Roony can be as good as any bright player like Lineker. But, overall, the chances are that the more intelligent the player, (or manager), the better they are likely to be. So draining off the best minds to rugby decreases our pool of potential quality footballers.

Sorry it was such a long thought.

Winning the World Cup in 1966 has set us back 50yrs.

We won it the British way with strength and physicality and most of our thinking turned in on itself. We were complacent and dismissive of the new methods in general.

Whatever the reasons for the success 'Continental' approach and this term is still a term of abuse we have failed to meet the challenge and think that we can still combat skill with strength.

'Oh yes' they say' but let's see how they do on a cold January on a muddy pitch'.
Cesc Fabregas anyone? Luka Modric, Ossie, Juaninho, insert your own 'lightweight too small for the Premiership' favourite here.............

At least at Spurs we pay more than lip service to the skill factor, the old pass and move ethic , ball on the ground which made us what we are and make following Spurs a pleasure rather than a duty acquired by habit.

Good thread.

The most important lesson for children playing football is keep your head up.

I'd agree with all of this. Having spent a fair bit of time there in my late teens, hanging out with the local yoof and playing a bit of footy, I'd say you've pretty muh got it spot on in terms of my experience.

I have watched our youth team playing in the Milk Cup twice this week and its lovely to see the way they try and play the game.
Its ball on the ground,pass and move and little triangles.There could be a bit more movement but was still good to watch.
They also are very professional in the way they warm up,warm down and its a great experience and good discipline for lads of 16/17.
There is 3 or 4 who look pretty good.
There is hope for the future.

As for the Premiership for me there are too many teams who play the physical hit and hope game,forget about the ball just stop the man and launch it into the opponents box for the big guy to rough up a defender and hope the ball drops to one of their players to slot it home.
What is the point in that!
For me its not football,its all about the points to keep you up and in the big money but its killing the game.