Cain Hoy say 'No'.

[StartingPrice]

Oh dear, looks like the purple aliens in turquoise tracksuits haven't been driven from the Solar System after all

 

[mckenz]

love this thread, It never fails to entertain......

 

[davidmatzdorf]

If a big stadium sponsor doesn't turn up, well that's ok too, as the value of the land will grow nicely.

Land value doesn't just grow automatically. London has a structural shortage of housing, so residential land values tend to inflate more often than not - interspersed with sudden crashes - but for other uses, you actually have to do something to increase the value of your land. And what you do is to get planning consent to redevelop the land for more valuable uses than its current use.

And they've already done that. This is why I keep posting that ENIC ought to be minded to build out the stadium. They added a huge amount of value twice: once when Kemsley assembled the land into a package big enough to carry out a large-scale multi-use development and then again when the planning consent for that development was obtained.

But that was a few years ago now. Since then, the banking crisis has caused land values to collapse and then they have recovered, first very slowly and recently (for residential land) very rapidly.

More importantly, since the planning consent added all that value, ENIC have continued to spend money, but without adding any more value to the land, nor to the club. The time to sell up would have been after the planning consent - not now. The next obvious time to sell the club is when there is an actual stadium - unless someone offers way more than market value in the meantime.

This is not addressed specifically at you, it's aimed at nearly everyone: it continues to irk me how many people here blurt out these hyper-confident assertions about what ENIC are or are not doing and why, when they have absolutely no clue how the complicated property world works. There are about 3-4 people here who understand a bit about development finance and planning law. Development and planning are vastly complicated, broadly non-functional parts of the economy, riddled with political minefields and financial complexities.

If you're not one of these 3-4 people and you reckon you have a notion about why the NDP is proceeding (or not) the way it is, then ask a question or put forward a tentative hypothesis. Don't bray out these arrogant statements about what you 'know' ENIC is doing and why, because they are all naive, simplistic horseshit.

I'm more than happy to keep explaining stuff, sometimes even if it means repeating myself, but it truly fucks me off the amount of time I have to spend on this thread and the stadium thread contradicting absolute bollocks that have been posted in a tone of absolute certainty.

If you don't have any specialist knowledge, ask a polite question or STFU, because posting rubbish on the internet gives rise to false rumours - which is why I feel that I have to contradict them constantly.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

I thought the delay in constructing the stadium was the compulsory purchase.... Clearly not. It's just an excuse.

Well that's just dumbfuckery.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

...The stadium continues to cause utter confusion with constant miscommunication. We see the site next to the stadium being flattened, yet the club states it's taking advice on financing and looking for funding. I thought the delay in constructing the stadium was the compulsory purchase.... Clearly not. It's just an excuse.

This isn't correct. It's perfectly normal for a developer to assess whether it is worth taking the risk of continuing to do preliminary site preparation works whilst still arranging finance for the main build. Money and time can be saved that way, at the expense of a mildly increased risk. Any CEO of a developer (or a housing association, which is most of my direct experience) will ask their project manager (e.g., me in the '90s and '00s) to run numbers on the risk profile and the cost to keep working on the project at the same time as a financing deal or a S.106 Agreement or a grant application or Building Control approval or any other unresolved development issue is being negotiated.

If the savings justify the risk, you go ahead. If not, you stop and wait. It's not confusion, it's not miscommunication, it's just canny risk management.

The delay is the unresolved CPO - as they keep saying. There is no financial benefit in delaying the build. The delay is costing THFC money, hence their desire to keep working whilst they sort out these issues.

 

[sloth]

I wonder how Lehman bros annual accounts looked before they went splat? 1st rate I suspect.
Or amazon's/apple's/etc/etc accounts currently look - they're all on the breadline!
Such are the webs of offshore accounts, it has often been impossible to know who really owns many clubs, let alone who got what.

But I think it reasonable to think both Lewis and Levy have done very nicely out of spurs,
and would be more than happy with an another 10 years like the last.
If a big stadium sponsor doesn't turn up, well that's ok too, as the value of the land will grow nicely.

I read about this burglar in the newspaper, he stole stuff from houses. Now, I don't like you, so maybe you're a burglar, I don't know that you're not, there's no proof in fact that you aren't, and because I don't really like you I think it's reasonable to think you might be.

 

[whitesocks]

...
I'm more than happy to keep explaining stuff, sometimes even if it means repeating myself, but it truly fucks me off the amount of time I have to spend on this thread and the stadium thread contradicting absolute bollocks that have been posted in a tone of absolute certainty.

If you don't have any specialist knowledge, ask a polite question or STFU, because posting rubbish on the internet gives rise to false rumours - which is why I feel that I have to contradict them constantly.

I think you misunderstand the tone of these posts - if I was writing you a letter then I'd have space for all the niceties, and deferences. They are just opinions. I'm not trying to be authoritative. But I do give reasons for my man on the street thoughts:
like a kop end would be quicker to assemble than a corporate area, annual reports can hide as much as they reveal, land is a good investment, etc.

I have no problem if you can pull them apart. I would have thought you'd be grateful to put the record straight (as you see it).

 

[weststandvoice]

Land value doesn't just grow automatically. London has a structural shortage of housing, so residential land values tend to inflate more often than not - interspersed with sudden crashes - but for other uses, you actually have to do something to increase the value of your land. And what you do is to get planning consent to redevelop the land for more valuable uses than its current use.

And they've already done that. This is why I keep posting that ENIC ought to be minded to build out the stadium. They added a huge amount of value twice: once when Kemsley assembled the land into a package big enough to carry out a large-scale multi-use development and then again when the planning consent for that development was obtained.

But that was a few years ago now. Since then, the banking crisis has caused land values to collapse and then they have recovered, first very slowly and recently (for residential land) very rapidly.

More importantly, since the planning consent added all that value, ENIC have continued to spend money, but without adding any more value to the land, nor to the club. The time to sell up would have been after the planning consent - not now. The next obvious time to sell the club is when there is an actual stadium - unless someone offers way more than market value in the meantime.

This is not addressed specifically at you, it's aimed at nearly everyone: it continues to irk me how many people here blurt out these hyper-confident assertions about what ENIC are or are not doing and why, when they have absolutely no clue how the complicated property world works. There are about 3-4 people here who understand a bit about development finance and planning law. Development and planning are vastly complicated, broadly non-functional parts of the economy, riddled with political minefields and financial complexities.

If you're not one of these 3-4 people and you reckon you have a notion about why the NDP is proceeding (or not) the way it is, then ask a question or put forward a tentative hypothesis. Don't bray out these arrogant statements about what you 'know' ENIC is doing and why, because they are all naive, simplistic horseshit.

I'm more than happy to keep explaining stuff, sometimes even if it means repeating myself, but it truly fucks me off the amount of time I have to spend on this thread and the stadium thread contradicting absolute bollocks that have been posted in a tone of absolute certainty.

If you don't have any specialist knowledge, ask a polite question or STFU, because posting rubbish on the internet gives rise to false rumours - which is why I feel that I have to contradict them constantly.

You're so ruddy bloody brave

 

[Mustard]

It makes me laugh. All you see on the news is Ebola this and Ebola that.

Has no one stopped to consider the utter shit Dave has to put up with?

For shame people. For shame.

 

[andyp8080]

It makes me laugh. All you see on the news is Ebola this and Ebola that.

Has no one stopped to consider the utter shit Dave has to put up with?

For shame people. For shame.

I am not sure I have any idea what you are talking about

 

[davidmatzdorf]

It makes me laugh. All you see on the news is Ebola this and Ebola that.

Has no one stopped to consider the utter shit Dave has to put up with?

For shame people. For shame.

Would that be Dave Cameron?

 

[sloth]

I am not sure I have any idea what you are talking about

I think he means that until the end of the Ebola outbreak in West Africa, we shouldn't get pissed off about anything else...

 

[mckenz]

This thread no has Ebola? Chris Hoy has Ebola?

 

[guiltyparty]

I wonder how Lehman bros annual accounts looked before they went splat? 1st rate I suspect.
Or amazon's/apple's/etc/etc accounts currently look - they're all on the breadline!
Such are the webs of offshore accounts, it has often been impossible to know who really owns many clubs, let alone who got what.

But I think it reasonable to think both Lewis and Levy have done very nicely out of spurs,
and would be more than happy with an another 10 years like the last.
If a big stadium sponsor doesn't turn up, well that's ok too, as the value of the land will grow nicely.

Apple are on the breadline?! Not sure if serious...

 

[Mustard]

I think he means that until the end of the Ebola outbreak in West Africa, we shouldn't get pissed off about anything else...

Erm.....no.

 

[Bulletspur]

Anyone else secretly hoped that there would still have been an announcement on Friday October 10th?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Anyone else secretly hoped that there would still have been an announcement on Friday October 10th?

Yeah I did, especially if they were coughing up Uncle Joe's 1billion asking price.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Anyone else secretly hoped that there would still have been an announcement on Friday October 10th?

No, considering the fact that they can't bid for another 6 months

 

[dovahkiin]

some bits from coys
hertyid: I spoke with someone today who said CH interest was initially in stadium development, then as a cash for equity deal giving them a stake in the club. The stake being offered by ENIC was way below what they thought fair for the amount they would have been investing to develop the stadium. They had to make the situation public as they would have been purchasing 30%+ of the club but their valuations and ENIC were far apart. I don't believe this was ever a full take-over and Levy would still have been Chairman apparently. They still have interest in the stadium financing and just because it didn't happen this time doesn't mean it won't in the future.

edmonton: I heard from a non-Spurs source that CH's interest is investing in EPL generally and they continue to look at a number of clubs, may go for Everton.

 

[mrlilywhite]

some bits from coys
hertyid: I spoke with someone today who said CH interest was initially in stadium development, then as a cash for equity deal giving them a stake in the club. The stake being offered by ENIC was way below what they thought fair for the amount they would have been investing to develop the stadium. They had to make the situation public as they would have been purchasing 30%+ of the club but their valuations and ENIC were far apart. I don't believe this was ever a full take-over and Levy would still have been Chairman apparently. They still have interest in the stadium financing and just because it didn't happen this time doesn't mean it won't in the future.

edmonton: I heard from a non-Spurs source that CH's interest is investing in EPL generally and they continue to look at a number of clubs, may go for Everton.

Thanks Dovakhin. Seems interesting that they wanted a stake in the club, and not a full buyout. Wonder if that would have been the next step at some point? I would not be surprised to see them make an investment in Everton or any other Prem club tbh, They clearly want/wanted a presence in the Premier League!