Cardiff record signing Sala on missing plane

[TTID2002]

The worst part is there’s a lot of contexts that can be applied to his message, is he saying an hour and a half because that’s how long the flight is and he fears he will never make it? Or is he aware they are on their way down and actually potentially has made it to a life raft etc and hopefully can be found in time. I’m realistic enough to know the likelihood’s but you can see how the not knowing is the worst part for the family.

If you listen to the audio on Ole, he doesn't sound very scared, more a conversation in passing with some twinge of fear attached to it. Definitely sounds as though he's getting on the plane and is nervous.

 

[Fredo]

I really hope both of them are found, trying to put a positive spin on the Guernsey Police tweet.

Just still can't get my head around why he was allowed to board a plane that took 4 attempts at takeoff (according to sources). And even if he was allowed, why would he still personally go ahead with it, from the Whatsapp audio he clearly had concerns. The whole feel about this doesn't seem right.

 

[rightwayup]

Apparently the plane belonged to Willie McKay

This was the option I was alluding to in my post 72. The other options just didn't make sense to me.

 

[mil1lion]

The club are saying he made his own arrangements which is crazy really. Did he feel pressured to make it to his new club for training and couldn't get a better plane in time? I wonder where he got details of this flight from. He was obviously concerned but I guess if you fly with someone who has flown many times you assume it will be ok.

I do hope somehow they're found. It just seems so unlikely by this point, particularly given how cold it is out there. I just hope lessons are taken from this so it doesn't happen again. I also hope that technology is improved soon to help. I find it crazy in this day and age that planes can still lose contact and be lost without trace.

I was watching a video recently about how AI is being used along with drones to check over faulty power lines. I wonder if maybe one day they'll be able to get some sort of drone that essentially follows an aircraft and monitors it from flight to landing. If something goes wrong it sends an alert along with the exact location so help can be sent.

 

[michaelden]

This was the option I was alluding to in my post 72. The other options just didn't make sense to me.

Willie McKay isn't guys agent but helped broker the deal according to the Times

 

[Geyzer Soze]

Here’s an article about Pipers

Don’t fly them ...

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/law/Defect-charged-in-midair-breakups.html

 

[Thewobbler]

Here’s an article about Pipers

Don’t fly them ...

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/law/Defect-charged-in-midair-breakups.html

Its crazy these sort of planes are still being made.

So the Piper apparently had problems getting off the ground, 3-4 attempts is the rumour, and sala himself said something about the plane not being right and it felt like it was falling to pieces. Crazy

 

[fluffybunnyuk]

Most types of small planes crash at some point. I always read the accident reports of any types i flew, just in case i might have needed it.
The leading theory is leading wing edge ice. Its the sort of thing that can bring any aircraft down even a jumbo. Heaters help a little with that but it still happens.

Non-pilots wouldnt know a safe crate from an unsafe crate. I've had people get in my plane, turn around and literally just get out. It was always sound, i made damn sure i had a mechanic that covered everything, and made sure everything was documented for service. The expectation is often that it should be like 747 luxury. lol. Back-seat drivers are the worst in small planes. Especially when it gets a bit bumpy.
As for ditching in the sea. umm i had a locker in the back with the raft, i can safely say the chances of me getting out the pilots seat, and crawling back to the locker, undoing locker, getting raft, dragging it to door, squeezing out of door, and dragging it out, and letting it inflate before the plane sank is somewhere between 0 and impossible. On the plus side it was nice to know it was there.

 

[dagraham]

Just an awful story, made even worse by those messages.

I think I’ve flown in a similar type of plane to this once; from Barbados to St.Lucia over 10 years ago.

Only a half hour flight, but the whole time it was shaking all over the place and it was virtually impossible for the cabin crew to serve any drinks etc.

Mostly it was full of Caribbean people who you would have thought might be used to this sort of thing, but even they looked like they were shitting themselves. One family was virtually praying and when it landed spent the next 5 minutes loudly thanking Jesus.

 

[Reece]

I find it crazy in this day and age that planes can still lose contact and be lost without trace.

This. And it seems to me that while flight safety made huge strides during the 70s & 80s, very recently we've had a spate of odd disappearances and incidents without much trace.

Are things getting worse? Are the constant cuts in flight prices and therefore reduced margins plus drastic cuts to relative wages over the last decade impacting general safety standards in what is probably the most high-price form of public transport out there?

Really hope they find the pilot and Sala but as others have said even in the best case scenario of landing and escape, it is bitterly cold out there at the moment.

 

[Primativ]

In hindsight it was a crazy risk taking a night flight in winter over sea on a one engine aircraft. These planes aren’t as safe as commercial aircraft. Even from just the fact of the part time pilots and lack of mechanical redundancy.

Im sure these planes are fine for a summer daytime trip over land but not to do the journey they made.


I suppose you think it could never happen to you. It’s just Tragic. They may never even find the plane and bodies.

 

[fluffybunnyuk]

I'm sure theres someone with an ATPL here that can come along and tell you stories of placarding instruments, and flying big jets in the knowledge it'll get fixed later.... If you want to be scared i'd direct you to Alaska 261. Although you'd probably be better off not listening to that. You'll sleep better not listening to it.
Anything that leaves the ground is a calculated risk usually. Its all about risk management. Accidents dont generally happen because of 1 thing. Its usually the nth thing in the chain that does for you. Spotting and mitigating error or risk before you reach that point can be very taxing the further down the chain you get.
I never flew with anything placarded so i always get nervous on commercial flights because of all the unknowns about pilot and maintenance.
Redundancy isnt the gift people think it is. 2 engines gave more lift but not double the lift of single engine. It also gave twice the likelihood of failure. Twice the complexity.
90% of accidents is pilot error. People will consider this statement crass. But its an important part of consideration pre-flight in risk management.
Yes its also funny in a warped way to play dambusters music to the friends as we taxi, and then roar down the runway with a comment to shut up until the music stops, i.e. ive got gear up, and we've finished climbing to 1st altitude point (i always scaled my altitude according to weight/fuel efficiency). Or tell them to watch the door just in case it flies open. Its odd though i never got many friends as repeat passengers. dunno why.
So generally the best advice is to get to know the pilot. Consider their personality, and judge how big a risk taker they are, how experienced flying that particular plane. Flying can only ever be as safe as the effort one takes in considering and calculating, and dealing with the risks.

 

[wooderz]

I'm sure theres someone with an ATPL here that can come along and tell you stories of placarding instruments, and flying big jets in the knowledge it'll get fixed later.... If you want to be scared i'd direct you to Alaska 261. Although you'd probably be better off not listening to that. You'll sleep better not listening to it.
Anything that leaves the ground is a calculated risk usually. Its all about risk management. Accidents dont generally happen because of 1 thing. Its usually the nth thing in the chain that does for you. Spotting and mitigating error or risk before you reach that point can be very taxing the further down the chain you get.
I never flew with anything placarded so i always get nervous on commercial flights because of all the unknowns about pilot and maintenance.
Redundancy isnt the gift people think it is. 2 engines gave more lift but not double the lift of single engine. It also gave twice the likelihood of failure. Twice the complexity.
90% of accidents is pilot error. People will consider this statement crass. But its an important part of consideration pre-flight in risk management.
Yes its also funny in a warped way to play dambusters music to the friends as we taxi, and then roar down the runway with a comment to shut up until the music stops, i.e. ive got gear up, and we've finished climbing to 1st altitude point (i always scaled my altitude according to weight/fuel efficiency). Or tell them to watch the door just in case it flies open. Its odd though i never got many friends as repeat passengers. dunno why.
So generally the best advice is to get to know the pilot. Consider their personality, and judge how big a risk taker they are, how experienced flying that particular plane. Flying can only ever be as safe as the effort one takes in considering and calculating, and dealing with the risks.

Can't put it better than this, I'm at the point of taking my skills test for my PPL and believe me, a lot of people wouldn't set foot in the planes I fly (Cessna 152 and Piper Cherokee - P28)

The thing is, they are super airworthy, they are checked over and over again, day in and day out... they look like a bag of bolts, but really they're sound.

I hope these guys are found floating in a raft somewhere well off course, it doesn't sound likely, but we have to cling to hope.

Until then, it's all speculation, but as the bunny says, most air accidents are pilot errors rather than the plane being un-airworthy. We have it drilled into us, ANY risk outside of your calculations, and the plane stays on the ground.

 

[mil1lion]

The club wanted him to take a train to France and then a flight to Heathrow. Unfortunately he made his own arrangements, probably because of the time it would have taken. They have stopped searching now.

 

[fluffybunnyuk]

Can't put it better than this, I'm at the point of taking my skills test for my PPL and believe me, a lot of people wouldn't set foot in the planes I fly (Cessna 152 and Piper Cherokee - P28)

The thing is, they are super airworthy, they are checked over and over again, day in and day out... they look like a bag of bolts, but really they're sound.

I hope these guys are found floating in a raft somewhere well off course, it doesn't sound likely, but we have to cling to hope.

Until then, it's all speculation, but as the bunny says, most air accidents are pilot errors rather than the plane being un-airworthy. We have it drilled into us, ANY risk outside of your calculations, and the plane stays on the ground.

Hey thats really great. Good luck with your PPL. 3 recommendations. 1. read all the air accident reports for type. 2. make sure you always know all the performance numbers for the type. You'd be amazed how the current airspeed /stall rate on some maneuvers catches people out. 3. Although you dont need ATPL risk management,( it never hurt me when the prop broke on the cessna, and i became a big unwieldy kite looking for somewhere that wasnt a power line.) its well worth the time in practicing scenarios, and the strategies.

Oh i forgot to say try to avoid the GPS. Some people get addicted to it, and cant fly without glancing at it every 30 seconds. Honing hitting markers by radio is much more practical especially if you want to go IR later.
And your right nothing would persuade me to get in that cessna next to you

 

[WalkerboyUK]

I've only been in a little prop plane once and never again will I do it...
I won a trip in Capital's Flying Eye over London one Saturday morning.
I'm sure I was in safe hands, but I couldn't cope with it.
They had to land again after 10 mins to let me off!

 

[wooderz]

Hey thats really great. Good luck with your PPL. 3 recommendations. 1. read all the air accident reports for type. 2. make sure you always know all the performance numbers for the type. You'd be amazed how the current airspeed /stall rate on some maneuvers catches people out. 3. Although you dont need ATPL risk management,( it never hurt me when the prop broke on the cessna, and i became a big unwieldy kite looking for somewhere that wasnt a power line.) its well worth the time in practicing scenarios, and the strategies.

Oh i forgot to say try to avoid the GPS. Some people get addicted to it, and cant fly without glancing at it every 30 seconds. Honing hitting markers by radio is much more practical especially if you want to go IR later.
And your right nothing would persuade me to get in that cessna next to you

No GPS (intentionally) in the planes I fly, got to dead reckon - once I've qualified I'll get SkyDemon installed on my tablet though! Weirdly I find flying by VOR pretty easy, the thing I always bloody forget is my FREDA.. hopefully not on test!

 

[spursgirls]

In hindsight it was a crazy risk taking a night flight in winter over sea on a one engine aircraft. These planes aren’t as safe as commercial aircraft. Even from just the fact of the part time pilots and lack of mechanical redundancy.

Im sure these planes are fine for a summer daytime trip over land but not to do the journey they made.


I suppose you think it could never happen to you. It’s just Tragic. They may never even find the plane and bodies.

Plus they had bad weather warnings before they left. :-(

 

[fluffybunnyuk]

No GPS (intentionally) in the planes I fly, got to dead reckon - once I've qualified I'll get SkyDemon installed on my tablet though! Weirdly I find flying by VOR pretty easy, the thing I always bloody forget is my FREDA.. hopefully not on test!

Dont ffforget your bumm itch

 

[wooderz]

Dont ffforget your bumm itch

Before anyone gets ideas... landing checks

B- rakes
U- ndercarriage
M- ixture is rich
F- uel - quantity and pump on (if necessary)
I- nstruments - engine temps and pressures in the green, artificial horizon aligned, compass and directional indicator agree
C- arb Heat is hot
H- atches are secure
H- arnesses are secure