Champions League - 2017/18

[mpickard2087]

You never know, this time we might try..

 

[Saoirse]

The new pot one ruling is really annoying. I get why they did it but when you get teams like Spartak and Leicester in pot 1 ....

Personally as much as it's been bad news for us I do like it. Makes it considerably more likely to see an underdog team in the latter stages like Leicester this year, and creates much more unpredictable groups like the one we were in (compared to the previous format where at least six of the groups would be two big teams, one semi-decent side hoping for an upset, and some poor lot taking 5-0 thrashings and hoping to sneak 3rd place). Frankly it was needed with the knockout rounds getting stale with the same teams each year - you know the situation's bad when even UEFA admits the big money teams are too dominant.

 

[wadewill]

I believe it's only the top spot that gets you in a 'pot' per se, the rest of the teams are split by European ranking - so probably pot 3 again

Didn't we just miss out last season? I think even our poor performances should have given us enough points to get in pot 2

We will win the league anyway so it doesn't really matter.

 

[Saoirse]

Didn't we just miss out last season? I think even our poor performances should have given us enough points to get in pot 2

We will win the league anyway so it doesn't really matter.

Yep, but our performance was really bad this year, worse than most of our Europa campaigns coefficient wise. A merely competent performance wouldn't have done much though as we're miles behind Zenit in 19th - to move up any higher we'd have probably needed to reach the Europa semi-final or the Champions League quarters.

 

[Saoirse]

Current projection of Group Stage, based on current league positions and higher-seeded teams winning qualifiers:

Pot 1:

135.499 Juventus
171.771 Real Madrid
154.899 Bayern Munich
106.021 Chelsea
111.866 Benfica
62.266 Monaco
18.606 Spartak Moscow
87.526 Shakhtar Donetsk

Pot 2:

89.021 Manchester United
151.771 Barcelona
140.771 Atletico Madrid
98.866 Porto
126.266 PSG
112.771 Sevilla
124.899 Borussia Dortmund
100.021 Manchester City

Pot 3:

77.021 Tottenham
56.021 Liverpool
53.499 Roma
58.480 Anderlecht
74.415 Basel
88.499 Napoli
87.106 Zenit
64.580 Olympiakos

Pot 4:

15.899 RB Leipzig
15.899 Hoffenheim
23.092 Feyenoord
45.840 Beskitas
30.570 Red Bull Salzberg
37.800 Copenhagen
42.785 Celtic
34.175 Ludogorets

 

[Drink!Drink!]

haha oh dear, the group of death of possibilities there are many

 

[St José Dominguez]

Hoping for Barcelona. Wanna get the chance to see Messi live.

From next season the top 4 from the top 4 leagues all go straight into the group stage. So looking to the future we could do with boosting our coefficient or could be looking at pot 3 consistently, unless we win the league of course.

 

[Saoirse]

Hoping for Barcelona. Wanna get the chance to see Messi live.

From next season the top 4 from the top 4 leagues all go straight into the group stage. So looking to the future we could do with boosting our coefficient or could be looking at pot 3 consistently, unless we win the league of course.

The bad news is that I'm afraid that boat has probably already sailed. Two problems:

a) There's a ten-point gap between us in 20th and Zenit in 19th
b) After next season we lose the points from 12-13, which is currently our best season of the five with 19.2856 (when we lost the Europa League Quarter Final to Basel on penalties).

That means to become a secure Pot 2 team before the changes come in, we need to at least reach the Champions League semi-final next season and possibly reach the final. Unless you can play very well to progress ahead of the top teams in the group stage, you either need to take advantage of a lucky draw like we had this season, or consistently take the Europa seriously by reaching the last 8.

The more mixed news is that with those changes they're drastically altering the coefficient system, taking away the impact of the performance of other teams from your league and instead rewarding teams for historical success in European competitions (from more than five years beforehand). We'll have to wait and see how that effects us anyway depending on exactly how they do it, but it could mean for instance we overtake Man City and Arsenal but fall miles behind United and Liverpool.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Better to be in a shit pot than a tin pot Arsenal in no pot. Hopefully.

 

[RichieS]

Current projection of Group Stage, based on current league positions and higher-seeded teams winning qualifiers:

Pot 1:

135.499 Juventus
171.771 Real Madrid
154.899 Bayern Munich
106.021 Chelsea
111.866 Benfica
62.266 Monaco
18.606 Spartak Moscow
87.526 Shakhtar Donetsk

Pot 2:

89.021 Manchester United
151.771 Barcelona
140.771 Atletico Madrid
98.866 Porto
126.266 PSG
112.771 Sevilla
124.899 Borussia Dortmund
100.021 Manchester City

Pot 3:

77.021 Tottenham
56.021 Liverpool
53.499 Roma
58.480 Anderlecht
74.415 Basel
88.499 Napoli
87.106 Zenit
64.580 Olympiakos

Pot 4:

15.899 RB Leipzig
15.899 Hoffenheim
23.092 Feyenoord
45.840 Beskitas
30.570 Red Bull Salzberg
37.800 Copenhagen
42.785 Celtic
34.175 Ludogorets

I assume United are there as Europa winners? Would they not be Pot 1 in that case?

 

[Saoirse]

I assume United are there as Europa winners? Would they not be Pot 1 in that case?

Indeed. And no - only the Champions League winners go into Pot 1, the Europa winners are seeded according to their coefficient as normal.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

If we win the title, we'll be in Pot 1. But if we can't catch Chelsea, then will 2nd get us Pot 2 this time?

I was on pot three for the whole of the game on Sunday.......

 

[crokey]

Current projection of Group Stage, based on current league positions and higher-seeded teams winning qualifiers:

Pot 1:

135.499 Juventus
171.771 Real Madrid
154.899 Bayern Munich
106.021 Chelsea
111.866 Benfica
62.266 Monaco
18.606 Spartak Moscow
87.526 Shakhtar Donetsk

Pot 2:

89.021 Manchester United
151.771 Barcelona
140.771 Atletico Madrid
98.866 Porto
126.266 PSG
112.771 Sevilla
124.899 Borussia Dortmund
100.021 Manchester City

Pot 3:

77.021 Tottenham
56.021 Liverpool
53.499 Roma
58.480 Anderlecht
74.415 Basel
88.499 Napoli
87.106 Zenit
64.580 Olympiakos

Pot 4:

15.899 RB Leipzig
15.899 Hoffenheim
23.092 Feyenoord
45.840 Beskitas
30.570 Red Bull Salzberg
37.800 Copenhagen
42.785 Celtic
34.175 Ludogorets

Champions League is fucking amazing, those teams are who I want to see at the new WHL every year

 

[spurs9]

Current projection of Group Stage, based on current league positions and higher-seeded teams winning qualifiers:

Pot 1:

135.499 Juventus
171.771 Real Madrid
154.899 Bayern Munich
106.021 Chelsea
111.866 Benfica
62.266 Monaco
18.606 Spartak Moscow
87.526 Shakhtar Donetsk

Pot 2:

89.021 Manchester United
151.771 Barcelona
140.771 Atletico Madrid
98.866 Porto
126.266 PSG
112.771 Sevilla
124.899 Borussia Dortmund
100.021 Manchester City

Pot 3:

77.021 Tottenham
56.021 Liverpool
53.499 Roma
58.480 Anderlecht
74.415 Basel
88.499 Napoli
87.106 Zenit
64.580 Olympiakos

Pot 4:

15.899 RB Leipzig
15.899 Hoffenheim
23.092 Feyenoord
45.840 Beskitas
30.570 Red Bull Salzberg
37.800 Copenhagen
42.785 Celtic
34.175 Ludogorets

Imagine drawing Munich, Barcelona and Leipzig as your group.

 

[@WHL]

So we need PSG to win the French league and we sneak in to pot 2

 

[not_tenth-again]

Imagine drawing Munich, Barcelona and Leipzig as your group.

Don't think you could get Munich and Leipzig as they are from the same country. But you could get Juve, Barcelona and Leipzig.

Either way no one wants to see Leipzig or Spurs names come out of those last two pots

 

[spurs9]

Don't think you could get Munich and Leipzig as they are from the same country. But you could get Juve, Barcelona and Leipzig.

Either way no one wants to see Leipzig or Spurs names come out of those last two pots

Good point.

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

Likely Pot 3, slight chance Pot 2 (same as this time last year).

Next season we're going to be ranked as the 20th best team in Europe. Unfortunately, Spartak Moscow and in all likelihood Monaco are going to leapfrog us into Pot 1 despite having worse coefficients by winning their domestic leagues and/or the Champions League. That means to get into Pot 2, we need 6 of the teams above us not to make the group stage. Two of them - Schalke and Bayer Leverkusen - definitely won't. However, 4 other teams missing out is unlikely. The ones who might not make it are:

Atletico Madrid/Sevilla
Bourussia Dortmund
Arsenal*
Manchester United*
Manchester City*
Napoli
Zenit St. Petersberg*

The teams with asteriks (*) are the ones who might feasibly fail to qualify at all: the rest will, at worst, be in a qualifying round we'd have to hope they'd lose, noting that they'll all be seeded for it too. The two Spanish teams share a slot because one of them will finished 3rd and the other 4th, it's just a matter of which way round. So our best hope is:

Zenit fail to qualify (currently 1 point behind CSKA Moscow with a game in hand) or loses playoff
Liverpool finish 4th or, preferably, 3rd
Man Utd don't win the Europa League from 5th or 6th position
One other team unexpectedly messes up the playoff

We can't be in a group with other English clubs so does this change the dynamic?

 

[Saoirse]

So we need PSG to win the French league and we sneak in to pot 2

That would help, yes, although we still need a couple other things in our favour regardless. But with 3/4 games to go they're 3 points behind, played a match more and have a far inferior goal difference so it's not particularly likely.

We can't be in a group with other English clubs so does this change the dynamic?

Doesn't change the pots at all, just means we have to draw one of the other sides in each pot. It probably makes it a little harder for us as I think the Manchester teams aren't as good as most of the others in Pot 2 but not a big difference really.

 

[Saoirse]

Imagine drawing Munich, Barcelona and Leipzig as your group.

Don't think you could get Munich and Leipzig as they are from the same country. But you could get Juve, Barcelona and Leipzig.

Either way no one wants to see Leipzig or Spurs names come out of those last two pots

There is some doubt over Leipzig actually. UEFA rules essentially state that two clubs with the same owners can't compete in Europe in the same season - it's the same rule that led to ENIC getting rid of their interests in Rangers, Slavia Prague etc. It's possible that this will mean the two Red Bull sides can't both compete - and as they're going to be champions of the Austrian league rather than 2nd/3rd in Germany, it's Salzberg who'd qualify with Leipzig forfeiting their place. That being said this is UEFA, so money may well talk - especially if there's an agreement for them to sell of Salzberg as soon as they can, or move it into some technically/legally separate entity while retaining their influence. We'll probably have to wait for the off-season to see, but if they were booted then the 5th placed team from Germany would take their place (which is entirely up for grabs and probably a lot weaker).