Champions League 2017-18

[slartibartfast]

What a load of bollox

 

[Yid-ol]

I don't think he did it deliberately

At that point salah has his arm wrapped around Ramos.

 

[C0YS]

If it was another player, I'd agree. But its Sergio Ramos

I think many here are having their judgement clouded because they wanted Liverpool to lose. If that was Eriksen instead of Salah, everyone would be calling for Ramos to be hanged.

Well I wouldn't for sure, and I can't stand Ramos, or Real. Thing is its one moment of little incidents that happen constantly in a game. The fact is if Salah just gets up and play continues no one makes a deal of it. We wouldn't even know about it.

For gods sake even Salah doesn't make a big deal of it. If Salah thought that the intention was take him out the game you would expect him and the rest of the squad to be much more aggressive towards Ramos.

You can look at photo's out of context as much one wants. Such as the image displayed above, which does not show that both players are in the process of falling, thanks to contact not shown in that image. Rather in that image appears that Ramos is trying to drag Salah to the ground, thats not what happened. Ramos clips Salah, and Salah puts his weight on Ramos they both 'lose balance' and fall.

What kind of movement does one do when they fall? They protect their body. The movements that Ramos does are completely consistent with that. There is nothing unnatural about the action, though I wouldn't put it past Ramos that there was intent the fact is the incident doesn't even warent a booking and arguebly its not even a foul as both players before the fall are all over each other.

When watched as fluid movement, you will notice this all happens in less than a second as two players are falling, similarly you will realize quite clearly Salah is that locks arms first.

Thing is, and you can look at earlier in this thread to prove it, my first reaction is it was intentional. But after sleeping on it, and looking at it again I realize that was probably because of my perception of Ramos rather than objective reasoning. Its just too coincidental and random to be premeditated, and too unreliable to be considered a real attempt at injuring a player. There just isn't the time to do that, everything happened so quickly in that incident. Ramos would have to be a genius to orchestrate such a calculated injury.

I'm even Lawson things its crazy to think Ramos meant to injure Salah in that way, even though he believes she knew exactly what he was doing.

 

[fortworthspur]

I dont think he was trying to hurt him - it was more a case of "if Im going down he's coming with me". its unfortunate he got hurt but I wouldnt call it dirty.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Just picked up this little cameo on Twitter with our Moose on the loose vs RM.....

 

[Shadydan]

He wasn't trying to hurt him, Salah locked arms first and Ramos pulled him down, clashes like that go on all the time, it's just unfortunate that Salah came out it on the wrong end. Ramos is a dirty player but he didn't mean to dislocate his shoulder.

 

[ohtottenham!]

That wasn't sending a message. He intended to take Salah out of the game. He's done it before with other players.
Chiellini and Godin rough you up, but I can't remember a game where they intended to injure a player.

It wasn't a sending off offence, but it was clearly intended to take him out

Think you can find a host of youtube evidence of Ramos and both other players mentioned going beyond roughing a player up. The "he's done it before" line doesn't really stack up.

I've seen our own Dele Alli make spiteful challenges. Steve Gerrard had a history of them. Still, you judge each play or challenge on its face, and Ramos isn't an expert in judo whatever his history. It was unfortunate for Salah.

I really don't understand why you think that in that particular challenge, Ramos had it in his mind to cause Salah a game-ending injury.

 

[ralvy]

People using the "Ramos wasn't trying to break Salah's arm" excuse is one of the stupidest things I've heard.

Sure, Ramos probably wasn't trying to cause any serious harm on Salah, but he more likely than not was being ill intentioned when he held Salah's arm. Its like when kids bully other kids, they very likely are not trying to cause any serious harm on them, but every once in a while a kid will end up losing an eye or a testicle as a result of the bullying.

The fact that Ramos doesn't care about the possible consequences of his actions at such an age is a bit disturbing to be honest.

 

[Ossie85]

 

[mano-obe]

I think Messi done well to avoid being seriously hurt in any of them

 

[spursfan77]

I wonder if the Spanish press are moaning about carvajal’s injury like ours is with Salah. His looked a lot worse.

 

[Mullers]

It's amazing to think Zidane's job was under threat and maybe still is.

 

[Ionman34]

That wasn't sending a message. He intended to take Salah out of the game. He's done it before with other players.
Chiellini and Godin rough you up, but I can't remember a game where they intended to injure a player.

It wasn't a sending off offence, but it was clearly intended to take him out

I don’t think that’s true, not in the context you’ve put it anyway. Ramos would have intended to take Salah out of the game mentally with a reducer, have him looking over his shoulder for the rest of the game expecting to be clattered. There’s no doubt in my mind that Ramos fell on him deliberately, but it’s spurious to suggest it was premeditated. The situation developed and Ramos made the most of it to inflict some pain on Salah, that’s where he knew what he was doing. Looking to dislocate his shoulder? Not for me, he just “lucked out” that the situation ended up the way it did.

Ramos was looking to do what every CH has since the dawn of Football, scare the attacking threat to the point where he’s more concerned about the hit than the game.

 

[topper]

I think Messi done well to avoid being seriously hurt in any of them

I'd like to wager that before he retires Messi 'leaves one' on Ramos!

 

[ohtottenham!]

I wonder if the Spanish press are moaning about carvajal’s injury like ours is with Salah. His looked a lot worse.

Milner took Carvajal out with a challenge every bit as cynical as Ramos on Salah. A body check when someone's running at speed. He knew what he was doing in much the same way as Ramos knew what he was doing, but both challenges were within the laws of the game. Carvajal was pretty much done after that point in the game, even before the play that seemingly finished his game.

Saw a clip of Stevie Nicholl, ex-Liverpool defender, talking about the Ramos challenge. He said Salah initiated the hold on Ramos, and Ramos just took full advantage and brought him to ground, but that was what defenders do.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Milner took Carvajal out with a challenge every bit as cynical as Ramos on Salah. A body check when someone's running at speed. He knew what he was doing in much the same way as Ramos knew what he was doing, but both challenges were within the laws of the game. Carvajal was pretty much done after that point in the game, even before the play that seemingly finished his game.

Saw a clip of Stevie Nicholl, ex-Liverpool defender, talking about the Ramos challenge. He said Salah initiated the hold on Ramos, and Ramos just took full advantage and brought him to ground, but that was what defenders do.

I've said on this forum before there is a new breed of player that plays to draw fouls and who put their bodies on the line somewhat recklessly in order to get those fouls, Salah, Alexis Sanchez and Mane to name a few plying their trade in the PL.

 

[Ossie85]

Milner took Carvajal out with a challenge every bit as cynical as Ramos on Salah. A body check when someone's running at speed. He knew what he was doing in much the same way as Ramos knew what he was doing, but both challenges were within the laws of the game. Carvajal was pretty much done after that point in the game, even before the play that seemingly finished his game.

Saw a clip of Stevie Nicholl, ex-Liverpool defender, talking about the Ramos challenge. He said Salah initiated the hold on Ramos, and Ramos just took full advantage and brought him to ground, but that was what defenders do.

LOL, you serious?? Carvajal got injured on his own

 

[Ossie85]

I don’t think that’s true, not in the context you’ve put it anyway. Ramos would have intended to take Salah out of the game mentally with a reducer, have him looking over his shoulder for the rest of the game expecting to be clattered. There’s no doubt in my mind that Ramos fell on him deliberately, but it’s spurious to suggest it was premeditated. The situation developed and Ramos made the most of it to inflict some pain on Salah, that’s where he knew what he was doing. Looking to dislocate his shoulder? Not for me, he just “lucked out” that the situation ended up the way it did.

Ramos was looking to do what every CH has since the dawn of Football, scare the attacking threat to the point where he’s more concerned about the hit than the game.

I didn't say he thought of dislocating his shoulder specifically, just that his mission was to take him out of the game. He wanted to injure him, not scare him.

 

[Yid-ol]

I didn't say he thought of dislocating his shoulder specifically, just that his mission was to take him out of the game.

If that was his mission, salah made it easy for him by wrapping his arms round Ramos's arm first.

 

[glacierSpurs]

LOL, you serious?? Carvajal got injured on his own

Yes, I thought he did his archilles when he back-heeled the ball trying to keep it from going out for a goal kick.