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Champions League 5-6 March

neogenisis

*Gensy*
Jun 27, 2006
5,903
13,424
Depends on whether the defender got the ball first before you kicked. If you kicked him in the head without getting the ball, most likely a red.

I dont think i have ever seen someone sent off for attempting a scissor.
Chalk Nani's red up to the individual ref i reckon.

Also it may have just been me, but every word Keane said was dripping with bitterness towards Man Utd haha.
 

worcestersauce

"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
Jan 23, 2006
26,891
45,039
I wonder if Ferguson is so upset because he's handing over the reins in the summer or perhaps because his decision to leave out rooney was so dumb.
 

WalkerboyUK

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2009
21,658
23,476
I'm with Roy Keane on this one.
Studs into the body is a red card unless the ref shows leniency in this case he didn't.

I agree, except Arbeloa charged into Nani, not the other way round.
Fair enough if he was coming at Nani from the front and it was clear there could be contact, but he was coming effectively from behind. Nani has no way of knowing he is coming and is entitled to be trying to control the ball at that height.
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,100
47,055
Depends on whether the defender got the ball first before you kicked. If you kicked him in the head without getting the ball, most likely a red.

You'd never get a red for that though and I can't remember a single incident where a player has got a red in that situation.

If a ball had just bounced up at above knee height and the striker was going to shoot, but as he did so the defender got in and got kicked himself, is that a red card? Of course it isn't.

PLayers should be required to be aware of their surroundings yes, but if they aren't it shouldn't necessarily be a red card.
 

Shanks

Kinda not anymore....
May 11, 2005
31,159
18,914
You'd never get a red for that though and I can't remember a single incident where a player has got a red in that situation.

If a ball had just bounced up at above knee height and the striker was going to shoot, but as he did so the defender got in and got kicked himself, is that a red card? Of course it isn't.

PLayers should be required to be aware of their surroundings yes, but if they aren't it shouldn't necessarily be a red card.

I don't remember it either, but it's dangerous play.

Point being, Nani, deliberatly or not, caught the player chest high with studs up - that is always giving a reason to book/send off someone.

It is unfortunate though, I agree with that.

But, never mind, we've been fucked over with similiar things ourselves at Old Trafford over the years.

Roy Keane himself ruined a mans career on purpose and didn't get punished properly either.

Find it all rather amusing, that the fans who are so used to getting their own way, didn't ;-)
 

Gardham90

Junior Member
Aug 2, 2010
517
1,150
FIFA Law - "A player is guilty of serious foul play if he uses excessive force or brutality against an opponent when challenging for the ball when it is in play. Excessive force means that the player has far exceeded the necessary use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent."

Definitely not excessive force and I wouldn't exactly call it brutality when his eyes were on the ball whole time. It was a bit dangerours to be fair, but no more then a yellow when it was completely unintentional. If that was a Spurs players sent off we would be furious.
 

YiddoInPoland

You got some statistical evidence to back that up?
Aug 6, 2011
3,041
6,401
I hope Rio Ferdinand gets band for his cynical clapping in the face of the ref, bad decision or not, you can't do things like that.
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,100
47,055
I don't remember it either, but it's dangerous play.

Point being, Nani, deliberatly or not, caught the player chest high with studs up - that is always giving a reason to book/send off someone.

It is unfortunate though, I agree with that.

But, never mind, we've been fucked over with similiar things ourselves at Old Trafford over the years.

Roy Keane himself ruined a mans career on purpose and didn't get punished properly either.

Find it all rather amusing, that the fans who are so used to getting their own way, didn't ;-)

Don't get me wrong I find it all very funny, and from a Spurs point of view I hope it gets them angry enough to win every game for the rest of the season as they play all the teams around us relatively soon.

But 'dangerous play' isn't a red card as far as I'm aware. As Gardham has posted above, the rules say it has to be excessive force or brutality and that definitely wasn't the case for Nani.

I'd like to see under what rule it was that the ref is saying he sent him off.
 

dagraham

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2005
19,115
46,080
Graeme Souness also agrees it was a red card which I found surprising.

Does anyone else find it amusing that both Souness and Keane, two of the most dirtiest players in football, thought it was a red.

If that's a red, then most of their challenges should of seen them banned for life!

For me, its not a red. By the letter of the law it could be construed as dangerous play but the ref should use his judgement imo.
The key thing for me is that the ball is coming over Nani's shoulder. It's not like he did it face on with the player in view.

It used to be the case that a high boot brought you a foul and maybe a yellow card in Europe but nothing in the PL. If it's now shifted to an automatic red then the rules need looking at because its nonsense to me.
 

SteveH

BSoDL candidate for SW London
Jul 21, 2003
8,642
9,313
It was foul - ref gave a red (it happens)

Man U at that time where winning, so why did SAF not react correctly to the sending off by bringing on a more defensive player maybe to close down Modric?

No he had bloody strop and did not calm the situation down and defend for 10 mins and take the heat out of the indecent.

Very poor reaction to a bad situation. Not unlike us at the Emirates.
Now though I believe we would react better.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
FIFA Law - "A player is guilty of serious foul play if he uses excessive force or brutality against an opponent when challenging for the ball when it is in play. Excessive force means that the player has far exceeded the necessary use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent."

Definitely not excessive force and I wouldn't exactly call it brutality when his eyes were on the ball whole time. It was a bit dangerours to be fair, but no more then a yellow when it was completely unintentional. If that was a Spurs players sent off we would be furious.
As they said in the after match discussion, 'intentionality' is not part of the decision.
Perhaps it should be but it isn't currently.
He was certainly in danger of injuring his opponent
and if a Man Utd player had done that against us we would have been baying for blood.
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,100
47,055
If we accept that was a red card for Nani, wouldn't the same have applied when Lloris clattered Michu at the Lane earlier this season?

His eyes were on the ball (like Nani) he was genuinely going for the ball (like Nani) and he caught the player way higher than the Nanster. Obviously Hugo's wasn't a red card but by the logic of 'dangerous play' surely it could have been?

Similarly what if Nani had got to the ball first last night with a slight flick but then had still caught Arbeloa? Would that still be red? Would it be red for Arbeloa for catching Nani whilst in the air (surely considered as dangerous)?
 

kr1978

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
5,322
8,463
And if it had been Bale, in a similar situation, would that still 'nail it'?

I'm still angry about the shit decisions that cost us in the first leg against Sevilla six years ago. Shit, I'm still seething about the decisions that cost us against Benfica 50 years ago! Nani may be a ****, and Beetroot-Face may have had a multitude of dodgy decisions go in his team's favour, but that doesn't alter the fact that clueless deadbeats from Mickey Mouse leagues should be nowhere near major competitions.

Of course it wouldn't - I'm a spurs fan not a utd fan for starters!

Secondly they have been on the positive end of more dodgy decisions than they have been negative. Nani did himself no favours at all with his rolling around pretending to be injured as it made it look like he had something to hide- a point which seems to have been missed and could well have influenced the refs thinking.

Also I didn't hear too many utd fans feeling sorry for us about refereeing decisions with the mendes goal, the various Howard Webb debacles against them, nanis goal against Gomes that time ( Gomes fault or not it was pretty poor form by nani)

Karma came back and kicked them in the balls and I was happy to see it
 

chrissivad

Staff
May 20, 2005
51,646
58,072
If we accept that was a red card for Nani, wouldn't the same have applied when Lloris clattered Michu at the Lane earlier this season?

or when the keeper came out to punch the ball with both fists, missed and got the United player.

I have also seen people try over head kicks, catch the player behind and only a freekick.
Unless the ref thought there was more of a kick at the end (i think there might have been) then it should have been a yellow.
 

SteveH

BSoDL candidate for SW London
Jul 21, 2003
8,642
9,313
Given up trying fathom all refereeing decisions - it's a wast of time.
Managers though just have to make sure they keep doing there job and not feel sorry for themselves.
 

WalkerboyUK

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2009
21,658
23,476
He was certainly in danger of injuring his opponent

When he started the move to control the ball there was no opponent near him so there was no danger. If a player then runs at full charge and get's clattered then it's his own fault.
Fact is, Arbeloa didn't win the ball either!
He could see Nani's boot being high, but still went in for something he knew he wouldn't win.
 

Gardham90

Junior Member
Aug 2, 2010
517
1,150
As they said in the after match discussion, 'intentionality' is not part of the decision.
Perhaps it should be but it isn't currently.
He was certainly in danger of injuring his opponent
and if a Man Utd player had done that against us we would have been baying for blood.

Mate, there is no way I would be crying out for red if that was against us.
 

Misfit

President of The Niles Crane Fanclub
May 7, 2006
21,014
34,214
I'd also be going mental if a Spurs player was sent off under similar circs.
 

SteveH

BSoDL candidate for SW London
Jul 21, 2003
8,642
9,313
I'd also be going mental if a Spurs player was sent off under similar circs.

Agree - but would you be totally surprised, especially in Europe?

Why did they go to pieces as a team - they have enough experience at that club to defend a lead?
 
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