Ched Evans Jailed...

[brasil_spur]

Why would you assume that if she stated she didn't know that means she was lying?

I find it highly unlikely give her blood alcohol levels that she was black out drunk, and it seems the jury have also just decided that she was coherent enough for her to remember what had happened that night. Therefore for me i don't buy it that she genuinely didn't remember whether she didn't not consent to have sex with him.

 

[brasil_spur]

To me, he has said he never spoke to the girl and he had sex with her. In what world could anything in that scenario constitute her giving consent - I'm not a legal expert though, so fucked if I know how any decision was made.

The point here though is that you don't have to get verbal consent from someone when you have sex with them. In fact i don't think i have ever once asked someone if its ok if i have sex with them and wait for confirmation of consent before getting on with it.

Surely the point is that she needed to say that she didn't consent to having sex with him in order for it to be rape. The point that was argued in court was that she was too incoherent to be able to not consent, but that's inconsistent with the evidence in this case.

 

[dontcallme]

Right but even despite all of the above, there's no way the police continued to court without interviewing the girl. The main reason being that they could have asked her and she could have said "no it's all fine, i like Ched and wanted to have sex with him". At which point this all would have stopped.

So the fact is she must have been asked if she consented to sex with him or not, to which she either answered: "no" or "i can't remember".

Like I said before I don't know and nether do you.

All I know is she reported not remembering the night before so questioning her in the manner you assume must have happened seems completely pointless.

 

[brasil_spur]

Like I said before I don't know and nether do you.

All I know is she reported not remembering the night before so questioning her in the manner you assume must have happened seems completely pointless.

It gets to the point though where it is safe to assume that to an almost certain degree that the police have asked her whether or not she was raped. There are only 3 answers to that question and one of them results in the whole thing being dropped instantly. The other two answers are the ones i posted above.

 

[Xeeleeyid]

I've had my experience with them, only as a victim of crime. I'm not black, but everything black people say about them is true and you experience the same if they perceive you as low down on the social ladder. I'd never ever call them again no matter what happened to me and I understand why sections of particular communities feel the same way. There's a rotten culture than runs through them.

I know damn well what they did in this case. They created a crime and victim out of thin air just so they boost their figures. There's a lesson to be learnt here, you should "no comment" the police until you've got legal representation. If they'd have done that, there would have been no trial as there hadn't actually been any accusation of rape, and they took the footballers confirmation that they'd rodgered the girl and manipulated into an admission of guilt, and they've left a trail of destruction across many lives. They're the ones who should be prosecuted.

Why don't you spend some time with your local force as a volunteer and then come back to me. Because what you said there couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[archiewasking]

So, does he get his life and career back now? Or is he forever stained by this, despite the verdict. And if Poch wanted him at Spurs, how would you feel about it?

 

[rossdapep]

So, does he get his life and career back now? Or is he forever stained by this, despite the verdict. And if Poch wanted him at Spurs, how would you feel about it?

He will still earn more money than most of us in here and there's a good chance he will be able to progress to the Championship once again.

I'm sorry but I have zero sympathy for him, all the actions of a scumbag.

Also, he could quite easily have lost his girlfriend through all of this, he didn't. People need to stop feeling sorry for him. There's many people who have been served injustice in the past and are far more deserving of the sympathy.

 

[mkkid]

I can't beleve one or two posters on here belive Evans is innocent/ deserves an apology and that the girl should somehow be punished for being a victim in this, because she clearly was.
If anyone has read the full details of this case, what is very clear is that the girl was treated like a piece of meat by Evans (and by his 'friend') and if you think it's ok for a woman to be treated like that then you are basically condoning rape and I feel very sorry for any daughters/partners/mothers in your lives if that is your attitude.
There are no grey areas in what constitutes rape, it is where the victim has not fully and freely given consent to sex,. In this case, the victim was highly inebriated (as confirmed by various witnesses) and clearly not in a fit condition to give her consent. He didn't even have a conversation with her ffs, but he has been found 'not guilty' not because he was innocent but because the jury couldn't prove beyond reasonable doubt.
And anyone trying to victim blame her for being drunk, these are the words of the Director of public posecutions -
'It is not a crime to drink, but it is a crime for a rapist to target someone who is no longer capable of consenting to sex though drink'
The victims sexual history should also not be relevant to whether or not she was raped as, just because the victim may have had a number of sexual partners doesn't mean one (or more) of the partners isn't a rapist and it doesn't make her less believable.
In this appeal however, Evans legal team found a legal loophole to and introduced evidence from the victims past, and if you read about how they came about this evidence it is highly questionable and unethical if you read this link https://www.theguardian.com/society...ers-fear-evans-case-will-stop-women-reporting

Men should understand that rape is the one of the most traumatic and personally violating things that can happen to a woman, and even though 85,000 cases were reported just last year, the real number will be a lot higher than that because a lot of women are scared and ashamed to come forward, due to the fear of having to relive the trauma of the assault, the further humiliation and violation of rape tests in hospital and the stress of having a potential court case dragging on for months if not years.

Believe me that women don't want to be put through that living nightmare in the first place only to then be accused by some neanderthal misogynists of being liars and wanting their names dragged through the mud even more.

Evans got away with it with the help of his and his millionaire girlfriends money but my heart goes out to his victim and all of the women who have suffered sexual assault.

McDonald case not proven.
Evans appealed his conviction,the conviction was proved ,unsafe after only 3 hours deliberation by the jury!
Multiple people ,stated she said"fuck me harder".


As for being drunk,she managed to go back and get her Pizza and never reported a rape,CPS pushed the case to help their adgena for high publicity cases.There no legal loop hole ,the secret barrister has mentioned this!

Women should realise that being accused of rape, will stain your reputation for life as it did one of my best friends, ten years later it still effects him.

Ched Evans his actions were despicable and I can't remember leaving a hotel after a one stand down a fire escape, maybe sneaking out though.
But you have to prove a case beyond reasonable doubt, much as it doesn't fit your adgena there is reasonable doubt.

My partner works in a domestic volience unit for the police, she talks to me about cases nearly everyday.You would be staggered by the actions of men and women in these cases.

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

The police and the CPS are the real villains of this sorry saga. Both the girl and Ched Evans behaved in very unwise ways. The girl by getting plastered to the point she couldn't remember anything from the night before and Ched Evans by sticking his dick in an overly inebriated woman. Some friendly advice/guidance about the potential consequence of their actions would have sufficed. But as soon as the police found out he was a high profile footballer, they spotted the opportunity for a big case. The truth about most police officers is that they're not interested in the day to day mundane criminality experienced by ordinary people, they just want to drive around chasing people in fast cars, investigate high profile murders or be like James Bond going undercover to catch some terrorists. If this had been some Joe Average, they wouldn't have bothered with it.

What a load of complete rubbish. The police are duty bound to investigate any allegation of crime. Yes it was high profile but it wasnt high profile because of the police. Rape became political due to the number of cases that were not being upheld at court. It is an extremely sensitive and difficult issue to deal with. Sadly, there are a large number of false accusations, but each case needs investigating to establish, as best possible, the facts. Most of the time, it's 1 persons word against another, which is why there was such a low conviction rate.

Even in cases where there isn't a Direct allegation, it's important to investigate it. Because you know, there might be an actual victim that deserves justice / help.

This particular case has, if anything, helped show how hard it is to investigate them.

As for your other comments about the police not assisting those from the poorer side of the community. I don't know anything about you, nor your circumstamces, but your comment is ignorant in the extreme. In my direct experience, the converse is true. Most officers come from those backgrounds.

 

[Veuve Clicquot]

McDonald case not proven.
Evans appealed his conviction,the conviction was proved ,unsafe after only 3 hours deliberation by the jury!
Multiple people ,stated she said"fuck me harder".


As for being drunk,she managed to go back and get her Pizza and never reported a rape,CPS pushed the case to help their adgena for high publicity cases.There no legal loop hole ,the secret barrister has mentioned this!

Women should realise that being accused of rape, will stain your reputation for life as it did one of my best friends, ten years later it still effects him.

Ched Evans his actions were despicable and I can't remember leaving a hotel after a one stand down a fire escape, maybe sneaking out though.
But you have to prove a case beyond reasonable doubt, much as it doesn't fit your adgena there is reasonable doubt.

My partner works in a domestic volience unit for the police, she talks to me about cases nearly everyday.You would be staggered by the actions of men and women in these cases.

With regards to the bolded part of your post, it wasn't multiple people, it was two men who were interviewed before the original trial but didn't mention those words being used at the tme. They were re-interviewed after the Evans defence team provided £50,000 reward for new information and only after this incentive did they claim the words 'fuck me harder' were used by the victim.
The phrase used was quite an obvious one for Evans to come up with when he wanted to prove her consent and those two new witnesses could easily have been coached by his legal team to claim she said the.same words.
There is more information in the following link which I posted previously about how their legal team came by this new testimony and it sounds like a deliberate ploy to.discredit the victim
https://www.theguardian.com/society...ers-fear-evans-case-will-stop-women-reporting

I also ask myself, why should we believe a word that Evans said on the night? He lied to his girlfriend and went behind her back to get a taxi to a hotel room to have sex with a drunk girl his mate had picked up and who he had never met or even spoken to, he then lied to the hotel receptionist to get a key to the room making up some bullshit story and claiming to be another.person, then left via a fire escape in order not to be seen again by the receptionist.
It is not far fetched to believe someone with such low moral character who lies with impunity would also lie about the victim supposedly giving consent in order to save his own skin. I would argue that his behaviour that night was of someone who expected to have sex that night regardless of whether she consented or not.
With regards to false allegations of rape, I agree that this must be a horrible experience for genuinely innocent parties, but let us not lose sight of the fact that false reporting of rape is extremely rare and the overwhelming majority of victims of this crime are women.
In fact multiple surveys show that rape is shockingly the most under reported crime in the world due to victims worrying about not being believed, and that the media and society are negative towards women who report rape, link here.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/unreported-rapes-the-silent-shame-7561636.html

This just reinforces the fact that it is extremely rare for women to falsely report this crime.
The problem is that rape is difficult to prove due to there generally being no witnesses for obvious reasons and the fact it will often be a case of one word against the other and this is why the conviction rate is so low.. However, as we have seen in Evans case,, just because a man has been found not guilty doesn't mean he is innocent and It doesn't mean the victim has made a false allegation.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

You'd be a very very dangerous person to have on a jury

 

[Syn_13]

Can't wait for this shit to die down and this thread to get lost. Makes me feel very uncomfortable about the morality of some people on here. We all have our opinions either way, and of course our suspicions, but the way some people are going on it's like Evans is a fucking saint. Whatever way you look at it he's still a liar and a cheater. He's a dickhead who bit off more than he could chew. Whether there was consent or not doesn't change that fact. Don't have time for cheaters. Just hope there really wasn't anything untowards happening on top of it.

 

[Veuve Clicquot]

You'd be a very very dangerous person to have on a jury

Judging by some of the disgraceful comments on this thread, you should be more worried about certain morally bankrupt individuals being allowed out on the streets at night, let alone on jury duty

 

[Amo]

Judging by some of the disgraceful comments on this thread, you should be more worried about certain morally bankrupt individuals being allowed out on the streets at night, let alone on jury duty

You should look at the posts in thread from the time of his appeal. Or rather don't, some truly sickening posts.

Despite the large number of awful comments now, it was much, much worse back then. There seems to have been a slight shift in opinion on here, at least anecdotally from what I was reading in the earlier pages.

 

[Xeeleeyid]

With regards to the bolded part of your post, it wasn't multiple people, it was two men who were interviewed before the original trial but didn't mention those words being used at the tme. They were re-interviewed after the Evans defence team provided £50,000 reward for new information and only after this incentive did they claim the words 'fuck me harder' were used by the victim.
The phrase used was quite an obvious one for Evans to come up with when he wanted to prove her consent and those two new witnesses could easily have been coached by his legal team to claim she said the.same words.
There is more information in the following link which I posted previously about how their legal team came by this new testimony and it sounds like a deliberate ploy to.discredit the victim
https://www.theguardian.com/society...ers-fear-evans-case-will-stop-women-reporting

I also ask myself, why should we believe a word that Evans said on the night? He lied to his girlfriend and went behind her back to get a taxi to a hotel room to have sex with a drunk girl his mate had picked up and who he had never met or even spoken to, he then lied to the hotel receptionist to get a key to the room making up some bullshit story and claiming to be another.person, then left via a fire escape in order not to be seen again by the receptionist.
It is not far fetched to believe someone with such low moral character who lies with impunity would also lie about the victim supposedly giving consent in order to save his own skin. I would argue that his behaviour that night was of someone who expected to have sex that night regardless of whether she consented or not.
With regards to false allegations of rape, I agree that this must be a horrible experience for genuinely innocent parties, but let us not lose sight of the fact that false reporting of rape is extremely rare and the overwhelming majority of victims of this crime are women.
In fact multiple surveys show that rape is shockingly the most under reported crime in the world due to victims worrying about not being believed, and that the media and society are negative towards women who report rape, link here.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/unreported-rapes-the-silent-shame-7561636.html

This just reinforces the fact that it is extremely rare for women to falsely report this crime.
The problem is that rape is difficult to prove due to there generally being no witnesses for obvious reasons and the fact it will often be a case of one word against the other and this is why the conviction rate is so low.. However, as we have seen in Evans case,, just because a man has been found not guilty doesn't mean he is innocent and It doesn't mean the victim has made a false allegation.

He is innocent because he was found not guilty, that is a fundamental principle of our justice system.

Most crimes are hard to prove. The Police have to act perfectly within strict boundaries of the law and keep a strict and minute audit trail to allow evidence into court. A criminal can and does whatever they like.

It takes at least normally five years service as a response officer to be considered as a trainee investigator. Then to get on the detectives course you have to memorise the majority of a huge book of law and codes of conduct and pass an 80 question exam of which you get 2 attempts. If you're through that you go on the trainee investigators course and then you are shadowed by a detective while you put together a folder of evidence that has to be signed off before you're qualified as a detective.

The legal nightmare of just getting a case in front of a jury with disclosure schedules being served on the defence and them scrutinizing everything the police have done in minute detail. It is extremely difficult (rightly so) to investigate and prove to the required standard a serious crime.

 

[Mustard]

He is innocent because he was found not guilty, that is a fundamental principle of our justice system.

Most crimes are hard to prove. The Police have to act perfectly within strict boundaries of the law and keep a strict and minute audit trail to allow evidence into court. A criminal can and does whatever they like.

It takes at least normally five years service as a response officer to be considered as a trainee investigator. Then to get on the detectives course you have to memorise the majority of a huge book of law and codes of conduct and pass an 80 question exam of which you get 2 attempts. If you're through that you go on the trainee investigators course and then you are shadowed by a detective while you put together a folder of evidence that has to be signed off before you're qualified as a detective.

The legal nightmare of just getting a case in front of a jury with disclosure schedules being served on the defence and them scrutinizing everything the police have done in minute detail. It is extremely difficult (rightly so) to investigate and prove to the required standard a serious crime.

The 'not guilty' claim is just the way the English judicial system works. If it was in Scotland it would be 'not proven'. Money got him off pure and simple.

Personally I think he is scum.

 

[Shanks]

The 'not guilty' claim is just the way the English judicial system works. If it was in Scotland it would be 'not proven'. Money got him off pure and simple.

Personally I think he is scum.

I always felt this was a tricky case personally, and whilst I was never sure on it being 'rape', it was proven to be, then squashed and now proven not to be..

But, fact remains, he went there to bang a bird, who he knew was smashed, behind his partners back.

The bloke is a fucking arsewipe, regardless of the outcome.

 

[Mustard]

I always felt this was a tricky case personally, and whilst I was never sure on it being 'rape', it was proven to be, then squashed and now proven not to be..

But, fact remains, he went there to bang a bird, who he knew was smashed, behind his partners back.

The bloke is a fucking arsewipe, regardless of the outcome.

The term is not proven mate. Not 'proven not to be'

Something bad happened in that hotel room. Why would he lie at EVERY stage and sleaze out the fire exit?

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Judging by some of the disgraceful comments on this thread, you should be more worried about certain morally bankrupt individuals being allowed out on the streets at night, let alone on jury duty

If you stop ignoring clearly pointed out facts and skewing stuff to suit your agenda you anything you have to say might be taken a bit more seriously. Nobody in here is morally bankrupt, there are just people who don't agree with you.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

The term is not proven mate. Not 'proven not to be'

Something bad happened in that hotel room. Why would he lie at EVERY stage and sleaze out the fire exit?

Please tell me why he hasn't been arrested on a charge of perjury? I find that amazing if he's done what you say.