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Ched Evans Jailed...

Syn_13

Fly On, Little Wing
Jul 17, 2008
14,851
20,659
Let's turn years of jurisprudence on its head shall we...

"Avoid legal punishments as far as possible, and if there are any doubts in the case then use them, for it is better for a judge to err towards leniency than towards punishment" - Muhammad

"...one would much rather that twenty guilty persons should escape the punishment of death, than that one innocent person should be condemned and suffer capitally." - Sir John Fortescue

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer" - William Blackstone

"...it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer" - Benjamin Franklin

"It is more important that innocence should be protected, than it is, that guilt be punished" - John Adams

I don't agree with some of these quotes. Life just isn't that black and white. Principles like "It's better to let 10 guilty men go free than punish 1 innocent man" don't work for me. Would the 10 victims feel the same way? We have to be pragmatic here and accept that in some cases in life the innocent will get the shit end of the stick. We hope to fuck it won't be us or anyone we care for, but it's going to happen. I know that sounds harsh, it's almost like collateral damage, but it's something that's going to happen in the pursuit of justice. An innocent person will get caught in the judicial crossfire and end up being sentenced for a crime they didn't commit. We can't really avoid that with the way our legal system is set up. Sometimes you may think you're making the right decisions based on the evidence given to you, and the evidence may be utterly compelling, but it still may not be the case. We just have to put faith in this system and hope that it's working for the most part.

Anyway, I think you seem to have me confused. I'm not trying to argue that this not guilty verdict is wrong, or that it's a mockery of justice, or that he really is a big scary rapist. Nor am I saying that it was fine for anyone to have automatically assumed he was guilty from the get go. I totally understand that it's innocent until proven guilty. We have to remember that he was initially convicted based on his own testimony at the time before this new evidence came into light. He was sentenced appropriately as a result of the verdict at the time and spent half of his term, as is usually the case. Since then new evidence has appeared and he's been given an appeal. This is how our legal system works. As I said in my previous post, what sucks for him is that the evidence that was used in his appeal has only come to light after he's spent his time.

Sure, I have my suspicions, I won't lie about that. Evans' defence doesn't add up for me, nor does the convenience of how the new evidence has come about and what it entails, but I'm not trying to argue about that. I'm entitled to my suspicions and totally accept that others may not agree with them, and likewise others will have their suspicions that I won't agree with. I also accept that my suspicions may be wrong. However, what I want to make clear is that I comepletely understand that the lack of evidence to say that she did or didn't consent to sex with him means that a not guilty verdict has to be given. The verdict, based on the evidence, or lack thereof, is correct. In most cases rape charges will end up with a not guilty verdict because it's so bloody hard to provide hard evidence. It's such a difficult situation, and I wish we had a better way of dealing with these cases.

Ultimately, all I'm doing is trying to point out 2 things: 1) I think he's morally deplorable for cheating on his other half and thus I find it hard to sympathise with the guy. Even if you play devil's advocate and say she totally consented, the whole scenario of him cheating on his mrs by being on the prowl with his mate, and then fucking a drunk girl and disappearing off down a fire escape, presumably so he doesn't get caught, still doesn't do much for his character. It does make me wonder whether a person like that would take advantage of another drunk person. Of course, you can't act on presumption, and need hard evidence, so again I understand why you can't just come to a verdict based on that.

2) I find it ridiculous that people seem to think that not guilty = innocent, and are using that as either a stick to beat the claimant with, or a reason to defend Evans when they can't truly be sure that he hasn't actually raped this girl, considering none of us know whether she did consent. I've noticed that some of the people who are doing this are those that automatically defended the guy before even knowing what the hell happened, which to me raises some questions of their own moral integrity. Likewise, those that villified Evans from the start without hearing the facts come across as shit stirrers who just wanted to see a famous person go down in flames. Yes, as I said earlier we can have our suspicions, but unless we know the truth of it we're just speculating. People could argue all day and night about it, but we have to accept the verdict whilst still being mindful that someone is going to be hurt by the verdicts that have been passed in the original trial and this appeal. It could be Evans for serving time as an innocent man, or the girl for seeing the man who took advantage of her receive a not guilty verdict whilst being harrassed and villified by morons. I know it's a bit of a cliché, but put a loved one in that situation and you might think differently. That goes for both ways. That's why we can't get so emotionally invested in this.

I'm pretty sick of this thread now and I don't think I can contribute any more to it. I said earlier that I'll be glad when it disappears so I'll do my part and stop posting in it. People can agree or disagree with what I've said, it's how I feel about the matter and I'll stand by it. At the very least, I feel that I've been as diplomatic as I can be about this issue, bearing in mind I have my own subjective opinions. Dinghy, no disrespect to you of course, but there are things here we may not agree on, and that's fair enough. What I hope we can agree on is that a verdict has now been passed, that we must accept it and that we hope it's the truth of the matter so that everyone can just move on and forget this sorry mess.
 

Johnny J

Not the Kiwi you need but the one you deserve
Aug 18, 2012
18,117
47,878
I'm glad that he's getting a chance again at United. He didn't cover himself with glory in what went down that evening, but his conviction was overturned and he's entitled to earn a living.
 

tototoner

Staying Alert
Mar 21, 2004
29,387
34,059
Juat reading that the stand isn't named after Jessica Ennis-Hill anymore, maybe they could name it "The Ched Evans One Night Stand"
 

worcestersauce

"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
Jan 23, 2006
26,891
45,039
I'm glad that he's getting a chance again at United. He didn't cover himself with glory in what went down that evening, but his conviction was overturned and he's entitled to earn a living.
Clean slate, it has to be.
 
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