Cometh the Moment, Cometh the Man...

Discussion in 'Columns' started by Chimbo!, Feb 11, 2007.

  • by Chimbo!, Feb 11, 2007 at 4:42 PM
  • Chimbo!

    Chimbo! Well-Known Member

    Ratings Received:
    +351 / 11 / -1
    Whilst many of us are distracted by the dreary and abject displays, the pathetic excuses and persistent false hope we forget that our club has come to a crucial moment in its attempt to revive the glory, glory era.

    The path to success is never a smooth one, just ask Alex Ferguson. Before Manchester United's complete dominance in English football during the 1990s Ferguson was one game away from the sack in 1989 when had he lost in the FA Cup 3rd Round the future of Manchester United would have been very different. They were in the relegation zone at the time but they surged up the table to 11th that season and won the FA Cup. You might be wondering what the point of the story is but even the best do not achieve what they set out to do straight away, it takes years of dedication and vision and there are invaraibly hiccups along the way.

    I can not understand our bombardment of criticism at Martin Jol when he has transformed our club from mediocrity to an ambitious and demanding football club. Two years ago we would have been happy wiht a mid-table position and a couple of good cup runs. Now we boo the team if that is all we achieve. We finished 14th almost 3 seasons ago and had an ageing squad of average foreigners. Our squad now boasts 6 England internationals and some of the brightest English talent in the country. When was the last time we had players of the calibre of Lennon, King, Dawson and Defoe in the same team. The transformation undertaken by Jol is a miracle and we should support him through thick and thin.

    No one criticises Keith Burkinshaw for some disappointing league positions when he had the likes of Hoddle, Ardiles, Roberts and Villa in his side. Even the great Bill Nicholson did not consistenly succeed in the league. I feel a sense of perspective is needed; we have to wait and see. The mark of a great man is when he can face adversity and defeat it. Martin Jol is the man to do that; he will achieve success with us. Great managers build their success on the foundations of past failures; we are a young side that will learn from its mistakes and become a force in English football.

    A bit of optimism is all us fans need to have.
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Discussion in 'Columns' started by Chimbo!, Feb 11, 2007.

  1. infamousyiddo

    Chimbonda, Dawson, Rocha, Ekotto

    Tainio, Jenas, Zokora, Malbranque

    Keane, Berbatov

    this was the starting XI vs sheff utd at the weekend. Of that eleven SIX outfield players are in their first full season of the premiership.

    Teemu and JJ are still getting there way to full fitness following injuries and illness.

    im as unhappy as the next spurs fan but come on!!! No matter what way we look at it, we have many new players and its has taken time for them to get used to the prem and gel as a team.
  2. bigspurs
    You are indeed a Wiener by name and a Wiener by nature!
  3. JuanRebelde

    What's that phrase about a nail and hitting it on the head........ well that's what you've done! :clap:
  4. Hartfelt
    I think the main issue is simply would removing Jol be any better for the club? A revolving door policy for managers encourages turmoil. It also presupposes that a better candidate exists. I defy anyone to propose a replacement that would realistically come/be able to come to Tottenham and produce better results.

    I wanted I O'Neill. He wasn't available. We got Santini. Then we got Jol. I think he's been adequate. I won't call for his head until I see evidence that he's bad for the club. At the moment I'm undecided; this has been a poor season, but last season looked promising. Balance is everything.

    There is very little excuse for the way we've been playing. A huge investment has been made in the team. It's the most talented side since the 1980s. Carrick went with the club's blessing. New players were added. Despite this the midfield remains a disharmonious mess. Jol appears to be unable to make it work. Irrespective of where we finish this season, (9th looks likely), to me it's Jol's response to the midfield problem over the next few weeks which will show just how much of a manager he really is.

    This season has been so many others. We're starting to look like Newcastle. When Ledley comes all will be well - except that we've missed out on Euro qualification bar a cup miracle. If next season is as poor as this one Jol will be shown the door and we'll be back to square one. I envy United and the Scum. Steady as she goes. If only.
  5. Azrael
    Oh come on, can we please get past the "foreigners need to gel and get used to the Prem" crap? Granted it happens to some players, but six of them in one starting 11 alone? Come on pal. You don't see that happening en masse over such a long period when Arse, Manure or Chelski sign some foreigners. At most they suffer is one or two not coming good for a while.
  6. barry
    What about Alladyce, coppel, jewell, the seville manager, or even the getafte manager. I think they could all do a job.
    I like Jol as a person, and i really wanna give him time, but i'm afraid that if he doesn't get it right soon, they'll be a mass exodus of tottenham players, and he'd have fucked up our golden generation. This is probably the worst case scenario.
    Can anyone tell me when the time is right to call for his head. We've been playing poor disjointed football for 2 seasons now. We were lucky last season. I recall alot of people saying 'the sign of a good club is to win while playing poorly'. That tells me we played poorly alot last season. This season we've been playing poorly again but the results haven't come. I haven't seen many signs of improvement.
    I've given Jol time. 2 seasons is a long time in football. If the team were playing well or improving every week, but losing or drawing unluckily, I could just about accept it safe in the knowledge that we'll come good, but we're not.
    A good manager with good players shouldn't need 2 seasons to make a team good.
    Sometimes a good manager just can't get it right with a certain club for what ever reasons. Look at cappello at madrid, or Curbishley at West Ham(not good, but did an adequate job at Charlton).
    I really hope I'm wrong, because I like Jol alot and think he gives my beloved spurs a good face nationally and internationally. Please prove me wrong Mr Jol.
  7. Azrael
    ^ Paul Jewell? You're having a laugh, right?
  8. barry
    I think Paul Jewell's a quality manager. agree to disagree
  9. llamafarmer
    Good article that man. Most important point for me is that we have dumped managers in the past without giving them time, I truly believe we now have a good one and we should give him a fair crack of the whip. You don't build a great side in a year without a bent Russian billionaire!
  10. Wiener
    I know.

    Personal insults aside, my intention was certainly not to offend you. We are all spurs fans and we all want the same thing in the end. I just thought your criticism of the club and manager was rather harsh, and I don't really understand how you can justify it.

    I think our attitude (i.e. as spurs fans) does make a difference. There is a fine line between success and failure, and having the fans on board during the difficult times will help us in the long run. Therefore if you are going to criticise, make it constructive.

    Anyway, as I said we are all in it together, wieners included.

  11. Coyboy

    Cheers mate, not as detailed as your above post but I get so mad that I can't concentrate on a long post refuting such nonsense without putting my head through a window.
  12. Riandor
    Well... the result was poor. I was sick and angry, but shouting that MJ should be sacked is a bigger insult than the performance.

    Forget a left winger, that is not our reason for losing, I don't remember us having one last season and we finished where?

    We are missing a leader, pure and simple. Someone who leads by example.

    Someone qouted Cantona as being the reason MAN UTD finally clicked back in the 90's, I think he and Keane were the main reason Man UTD achieved. Their youngsters could play with the confidence required as these 2 would play their hearts out week in and week out and would sometimes singlehandedly drag their team across the proverbial finish line.

    For Arsenal it was again a combo of Vierra and Henry.

    Chelsea - Makelele... look how they have struggled without him (and recently Terry), yes their so called blip has left them struggling in 2nd (nice dilemma) but still.

    Where do we have that kind of player? King in defence is a must at present, he is skilled, calm and just plain good. Berbatov has the potential to be like Henry, different style of player, but in terms of the quality up front, he is class.

    It is purely in midfield that we still do not have the Keane, Makalele, Vierra player. No one and I mean NO ONE in a spurs shirt grabs the opposition and says: "Oi, this is our 3pts FFS, who the hell do you think you are?!"

    Davids did that, yes he was beyond his best, but he was an example and harried the opposition, roughed them up and just plainly got in their face. This forces the other team to make mistakes which our flair players can THEN capitalise on.

    In short ladies and gentleman, we still need a central midfield signing. Either that or Zakora has some serious progression to make. He might still come good.. there are plenty of examples of players not making a good impression in their first season, so anyone who says it isn't excuse is simply wrong (sorry).

    Sort the middle out, win the ball there and do not rely on our defence to retrieve 100% of the balls.

    The trick is to find that sort of player who will come to a non top 4 club. That is Commoli's task and hopefully we will get there.

    If anyone says last year was a one off, why not this season? Who is to say that last year is our true potential and that we have blipped this year due to new signings and increased amount of games and pressure from fans?

    Only time will tell... I believe us Spurs fans have waited a long time to get where we are now, you saying we can't wait that little bit more?!

  13. masterblaster80
    What guarantee can you give that a "mass exodus" of players will happen if Jol doesn't right the wrongs? and what guarantee can you give that the same scenario doesn't happen with a new manager?

    appointing a new manager will just restart the cycle all over again, he'll want his own staff, both playing and non-playing, then th team has to adapt to the new manager's philosophy, another year for consolidation, and if he f*cks up, we'll all be here having the same arguments

    so what if we finish 10th? its a disappointment, yes, but with sticking with Jol and allowing him time to fix those wrong, we can move forward next season with a very important lesson well learnt!
  14. barry
    true brother, I understand your point but when do you cut your losses. There are no guarantees or even signs at the moment that Jol will make us better.
    I just can't see us improving with each game. We usually play poorly for 70mins in any given game. We have quality players, but they never justify it on the pitch. why? For me the blame has to lie with Jol.
    If we got a new manager now, rather than in a years time, he would have a year longer to work with the squad.
    Look at Wenger, he only took a year.
    I really just don't believe Jol has the ability to fix Spurs. I hope he proves me wrong
  15. Jonesey
    I agree with everything you say except I think we should also question Comolli's abilities to scout and bring in the players we need.

    Bolton always seem to be able to turn up quality unknown footballers as well as well-known, experienced players who can come in and contribute to the team during league games.

    Even ignoring our lack of left wingers, we need to sign some players who can do the same next season as, sadly, this season's league challenge is pretty much over.

    My other gripe is about our fitness. Why is it that every week we look knackered in the last 30 minutes when the opposition always look like they could play on for another half an hour? If we're such a young team - an excuse which, frankly, is beginning to wear thin - this should not be the case.
  16. barry
    :clap: nicely written. Eventhough I'm still unconvinced by Jol, this was a well thought out counter argument to the jol out brigade.
  17. easiman

    :clap: :clap: :clap:
  18. masterblaster80
    Wait till the end of next season, if, by then, we're still mid table, not in europe or fail to win a cup, then i'll say Jol's taken us as far as he can.

    there is where i draw the line.

    does waiting another season that bad? hosnetly, whats the worst that can happen?
  19. rooster1
    What i can't understand is the relationship between
    Jol and Commoli ! I hear that Commoli buys the players
    and Jol plays them ? I can fully understand the youth
    recruitment for the stars of the future so would that be
    between Com and allen ? As for picking players who will
    do battle in the here and now,then Jol and Commoli
    should deliberate over this matter,i mean it has to be
    more than, for example (Jol) I need a left winger,(Com) let
    me see what i can do .Eek From my imagination Commoli
    shows jol a list/dvd and they decide if the player is available
    and then Com consults with Levy about the price and availability.If this is the case then it would make sense,
    but if Com and levy decide and jol has just asked for
    a centre back and they come back and say yep just
    got you one!! It's like when your mum bought you. some crappy trainers which nobody wears and says they
    look good on you ,but you know youll never be seen dead in
    them,then it must be frustrating being in Jol's position.

    Then shouldn't Jol have the say in who he wants and
    they come back to him and say whether it's possible
    or impossible.
  20. Parmenio
    Fantastic post! Spot on.

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