Could Ramos do what Jol didn't dare?

[badajozjim]

It was extremely brave of Ramos today to drop Berbatov and Keane, especially the latter as he has scored 24 in 31 games, which if I'm not mistaken is the best strike rate in Europe, for two strikers who haven't really been finding the net. Personally, I think Keane is difficult to drop right now whereas Berbatov seems to have lost heart, much to my disappointment, you should always wear the shirt with pride no matter who you are. Therefore if you drop Berbatov, you have a choice of Bent and Defoe. As we all know, Jol didn't like two little guys up front, but Ramos is different, although he normally played Kanoute up front for Seville, he did play Kherzakov, Fabiano and Chevanton as his front two, all of which are on the short side.
Would he do the same at Spurs as he seems to be trying out the players? I think we will see a different pairing for the Uefa. Would we like to see this?

 

[don1]

it has to be keane and berbatov starting at the moment they are the best two keane is the one scoring and he plays better wuth berbatov

 

[alamo]

He is trying out and assessing his options. Fair play

 

[don1]

fair enough defoe and bent should be enough to beat a useless boro team but in the position we are in we have to start with keane and berbatov

 

[BoringOldFan]

Am I the only person who thinks it was stupid to drop Keane and Berbatov today? They scored all five goals against Boro home and away last season when we won both games. Woodgate was out and Boro were there for the taking with a bit of subtlety and thought.

Our midfield really doesn't support the strikers and Keane is not only top scorer but does a great job linking the play.

I can't help but think that if Martin Jol had done this he would have been completely slaughtered.

 

[Flatters]

Well I just expect Ramos to try different combinations out and see which work and which don't. He's giving them all a chance to prove themselves with the different players around them.

 

[eddiebailey]

Ramos is not focused on results. He is experimenting and learning about his squad. The rest of this season is next season's pre-season.

 

[Defsta]

Well I just expect Ramos to try different combinations out and see which work and which don't. He's giving them all a chance to prove themselves with the different players around them.

Seonded

And I think it's good even if we could do better with Keano an Berba up front.

 

[walworthyid]

I have found it quite amusing reading what people's expectations of Ramos are. It seems that many people thought that we would immediately be playing wonderful football or that Ramos would suddenly find the ingredients that bmj was unable to. Well, it is not going to happen.

Ramos played his system today, 2 running and competitive central mids, 2 attacking wingers and 2 pacy forwards. The problem is that Boateng has just come into the team and is not yet up to the speed or the fitness levels of the prem, he will improve. Jenas may improve as he becomes more accustomed to his new role but at the moment he is playing poorly and if he does not improve soon he will be replaced.

Malbranque is not left footed and thus we still lack balance. Kaboul is struggling as well but again he should improve.

So when you look at it we are going to struggle no matter what Ramos does because we simply lack the confidence and the players to make his system work. The main thing though is that he is doing what many have called for, he is playing players who have not been getting a look in, he is playing systems based on the circumstances of the game rather than trying to keep people happy or just staying with what you know. But it must be said that in the short term we are going to struggle for rythmn and points more so than had bmj stayed because Ramos is going to try new things.

So for all those who have been screaming for these changes this what you have to put up with, it may get worse before it gets better. I personally feel that it will take around 10 games to get the current players playing in the new system properly. It will help when leds and bale come back during that period as will the gradual increase in the overall confidence level of the players that should come with not getting beat and feeling generally more comfortable with the new set up.

Perhaps by January when Ramos is able to buy a couple of players and ship a couple out, Hudds and Zokora should both be worrying at the moment, we will begin to see just what Ramos' team will look and play like.

I am optomistic but also realise that weare not out of the woods yet.

 

[walworthyid]

Am I the only person who thinks it was stupid to drop Keane and Berbatov today? They scored all five goals against Boro home and away last season when we won both games. Woodgate was out and Boro were there for the taking with a bit of subtlety and thought.

Our midfield really doesn't support the strikers and Keane is not only top scorer but does a great job linking the play.

I can't help but think that if Martin Jol had done this he would have been completely slaughtered.

No you are probably not but then when will Defoe and Bent actually play? I cannot recall which camp you were in but people are now getting what they wished for, new manager, new ideas and different players.

In the right system Defoe and Bent are the right pairing for an away game. Sit deep, balls in behind and use their pace and finishing to score goals but we are not there yet.

 

[USA_SPURS]

he is assessing his options..all good for now

 

[nuttynoah]

he could even be resting berba and keane for uefa?

 

[liewser]

Am I the only person who thinks it was stupid to drop Keane and Berbatov today? They scored all five goals against Boro home and away last season when we won both games. Woodgate was out and Boro were there for the taking with a bit of subtlety and thought.

Our midfield really doesn't support the strikers and Keane is not only top scorer but does a great job linking the play.

I can't help but think that if Martin Jol had done this he would have been completely slaughtered.

No you're not, but only if others do as you have and ignore that Ramos is a new manager testing out his players.

Martin Jol wouldve been slaughtered (and rightly so had he dropped keane imo) because he's been here 3 years and should already know exactly what his strikers are capable of in his system.

 

[speccy_spur]

he could even be resting berba and keane for uefa?

Think its a bit of both. Two birds with one stone - rest the first choice pairing and try out the other pairing. Defoe and Bent need to make the most of these opportunities, but with the indifferent service from midfield that is going to be difficult. Whether being on the bench helps Berb`s foul mood is another matter...

 

[joespurs]

Ramos is not focused on results. He is experimenting and learning about his squad. The rest of this season is next season's pre-season.

Exactly. Also, lets face it, we're not gonna qualify for UEFA (never mind CL!) via the league- the points gulf is too vast even at this early stage, so i suspect Ramos will concentrate very much on cup competitions- UEFA, Carling and F.A cup- and use league fixtures to experiment with the squad and work out who he thinks is worth keeping (hopefully Jenas wont be on this list).

 

[PT]

I don't think Ramos was deliberately intent on making some kind of new guy statement - more the fact that he knows Boro's weakness is a slow back four. With Bent and Defoe playing on the shoulder, it meant that the supply via the wide men and to a lesser extent, Jenas and Boateng, had to be consise and precise.

The second half saw the roation of the forwards to keep the Boro defence guessing and on their toes but again it was highly dependent on our midfield winning territory and distributing accurately.

It will take time - we have to be patient.

But at this time, there ought not to be anything greatly read in to who sits on the bench - we have a new regime in and their hand will not fully be exposed yet.

 

[SpurSince57]

I have found it quite amusing reading what people's expectations of Ramos are. It seems that many people thought that we would immediately be playing wonderful football or that Ramos would suddenly find the ingredients that bmj was unable to. Well, it is not going to happen.

Ramos played his system today, 2 running and competitive central mids, 2 attacking wingers and 2 pacy forwards. The problem is that Boateng has just come into the team and is not yet up to the speed or the fitness levels of the prem, he will improve. Jenas may improve as he becomes more accustomed to his new role but at the moment he is playing poorly and if he does not improve soon he will be replaced.

Malbranque is not left footed and thus we still lack balance. Kaboul is struggling as well but again he should improve.

So when you look at it we are going to struggle no matter what Ramos does because we simply lack the confidence and the players to make his system work. The main thing though is that he is doing what many have called for, he is playing players who have not been getting a look in, he is playing systems based on the circumstances of the game rather than trying to keep people happy or just staying with what you know. But it must be said that in the short term we are going to struggle for rythmn and points more so than had bmj stayed because Ramos is going to try new things.

So for all those who have been screaming for these changes this what you have to put up with, it may get worse before it gets better. I personally feel that it will take around 10 games to get the current players playing in the new system properly. It will help when leds and bale come back during that period as will the gradual increase in the overall confidence level of the players that should come with not getting beat and feeling generally more comfortable with the new set up.

Perhaps by January when Ramos is able to buy a couple of players and ship a couple out, Hudds and Zokora should both be worrying at the moment, we will begin to see just what Ramos' team will look and play like.

I am optomistic but also realise that weare not out of the woods yet.

These being?

 

[whendayearendsin1]

For me he is seeing who within the squad can play his high octane football. He likes his players to press for 90 min.

 

[Seanson]

Am I the only person who thinks it was stupid to drop Keane and Berbatov today? They scored all five goals against Boro home and away last season when we won both games. Woodgate was out and Boro were there for the taking with a bit of subtlety and thought.

Our midfield really doesn't support the strikers and Keane is not only top scorer but does a great job linking the play.

I can't help but think that if Martin Jol had done this he would have been completely slaughtered.

I would go with the Johnny Giles approach... put out your best team.... which has got to be the Keane Berbatov front two. Boro had lost 5 in a row.... we should have been using all our firepower to make that 6 in a row.

 

[Den]

he could even be resting berba and keane for uefa?

Thats exactly what I was thinking.