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Cristiano Ronaldo’s off the pitch troubles

sebo_sek

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2005
6,023
5,168
Would it? You think they spoke to the accuser the first time round? Why are class mates coming out saying he's lied under oath, I know that's a different matter but maybe they weren't asking the right questions.

If he has a history of sexual assault (3 women have made allegations right?), he's not going to admit it and he's certainly not going to give up names of those women for the FBI to interview.
A history would require sentencing. Right now it's conjuecture at best. At worst it's slander. As I said the burden of proof is on her. It's not his job to prove innocence, it's hers to prove guilt.
 

Dillspur

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2004
3,747
9,926
A history would require sentencing. Right now it's conjuecture at best. At worst it's slander. As I said the burden of proof is on her. It's not his job to prove innocence, it's hers to prove guilt.


That I do agree with, while I do believe what she's saying, unfortunately it's her word against his. But since a couple of others have come forward and he's already shown to lie under oath, that should be enough to launch a proper investigation.
 

LexingtonSpurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2013
13,456
39,042
A history would require sentencing. Right now it's conjuecture at best. At worst it's slander. As I said the burden of proof is on her. It's not his job to prove innocence, it's hers to prove guilt.
It is amazing how much wrong is in one little post.
 

LexingtonSpurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2013
13,456
39,042
By all means elaborate
Everything you said in that post was incorrect.

"History" does not require "sentencing"

It not conjecture - there is a credible allegation of sexual assault. You are free to disbelieve it - but the allegation has been made, and its not just conjecture.

Its not slander - but, oddly enough - that would require someone to prove the statement was not just false, but knowingly false, thus putting the burden of proof back on the accused.

The burden of proof is not on "her". This is not a trial, and even if it were - "she" does not bear the burden of proof. This is, essentially, a job interview, where all information could be relevant to his qualifications.

In the court of public opinion - which is where we are - there are completely different rules in play.
 

sebo_sek

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2005
6,023
5,168
Everything you said in that post was incorrect.

"History" does not require "sentencing"

It not conjecture - there is a credible allegation of sexual assault. You are free to disbelieve it - but the allegation has been made, and its not just conjecture.

Its not slander - but, oddly enough - that would require someone to prove the statement was not just false, but knowingly false, thus putting the burden of proof back on the accused.

The burden of proof is not on "her". This is not a trial, and even if it were - "she" does not bear the burden of proof. This is, essentially, a job interview, where all information could be relevant to his qualifications.

In the court of public opinion - which is where we are - there are completely different rules in play.
So I could come out and say that LexingtonSpurs is a rapist, then have other people "corroberate" and that's that, you have a history of sexual assault, right?

Let's move on. My word against yours effectively means it is conjecture as we have nothing else to go on. I also did say slander at worst.

What you are proposing is that we abandon the rule of law and let people's lives be ruined based on public opinion. That is a very dangerous route to take.

Now if it is a job interview and he doesn’t get it due to hearsay, does that mean he can sue the US Senate and thus move the burden od proof back to them to prove he is a rapist? I mean if he doesn’t get the job and his name is dragged through the mud based on their decision, it's only fair.

Now why would you suggests the women are credible even though they have not presented a shred of evidence is beyond me.
 

MichaelPawson

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2013
834
2,149
Ok, here come the negatives...
I woud just like to say that I do know rape victims, actual rape victims and I know the trauma the've been through, so I don't condone this brutal, barbaric crime but...

First of all, the one in three stat is utter nonsense (a source would be nice). That can only be true if we treat jokes or any other verbal content as rape. This is what wild feminists are trying to choke down our thoats, that you can verbally rape someone. You can't. When we exclude those, the stats will plummet and thank God they do. The stats are actually close to 1 in 2 000, which is still horrific, but nowhere near 1 in 3.

Secondly there is no such thing as rape culture. That would mean that rape is tolerated and supported on a systemic level. I would love to see any evidence in support of that in Britain, the US or any other civilised country for that matter. I don't know anyone, anyone who would applaude rape. If you do, time to change your surroundings.

Thirdly, there is this little thing called the presupposition of innocence - in other words innocent until proven guilty. If Ronaldo is guilty, send him to jail for life, but we don't know, so while I feel for the victim, we don't who did it. That's for the court to decide, not the press.

Fourthly the convition rate for rape is low for one of two reasons - A) Verbal abuse is not rape so if you count it you're only bumping stats up. B) Note point three - you can't just convict someone because someone else shouted rape. Sorry. They need to be proven guilty. The burden of proof is on the prosecutor. Or would you like to see it changed?

Fifthly, if it is so under reproted, how do we know they actually happen? Where do those stats come from? If they don't report the cases, who can you say they even took place? It's like saying every soldier died in an engagement yet we know what they said just before dying... You just know it would be a bollocks story. If you know the "unreprted cases" it's because they are reported in one way or another.

Sorry, but in a world where men are actually more likely to get raped than women (inc. prison) I have to react when nonsense is being spewed. When men get raped (by your definition), so jokes are made about their physique, about how cute they are, and so on, do you get as worked up? Just asking.

BTW, just to support what I've been saying: FBI Investigation Exonerates Brett Kavanaugh, Nothing Corroborates Christine Ford’s Claims

This is a really terrible post, especially in terms of what the person you are replying to said in hers. You cite no sources and pull statistics out of your ass while asking her to post hers, you accuse her of callousness towards male victims when she clearly pointed out how men are also victimized by the "must be lying about it" mentality, and most embarrassingly, you try to act as if "rape culture" is a figment of the imagination of the person who is being lectured to on the internet about the invalidity of her own lived traumatic experiences. Your post in and of itself is strong evidence that we do indeed live in a rape culture, whether or not you realize it. And your railing about feminist boogeymen in this current climate (and citing Brett fucking Kavanaugh and the White House-influenced investigation as corroborating evidence) shows you are very poorly informed about both subjects.

I'm trying my best to not make this personal, but you should seriously be ashamed of yourself for putting this out there in response to a very well thought out, well reasoned, and informed post.
 

sebo_sek

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2005
6,023
5,168
This is a really terrible post, especially in terms of what the person you are replying to said in hers. You cite no sources and pull statistics out of your ass while asking her to post hers, you accuse her of callousness towards male victims when she clearly pointed out how men are also victimized by the "must be lying about it" mentality, and most embarrassingly, you try to act as if "rape culture" is a figment of the imagination of the person who is being lectured to on the internet about the invalidity of her own lived traumatic experiences. Your post in and of itself is strong evidence that we do indeed live in a rape culture, whether or not you realize it. And your railing about feminist boogeymen in this current climate (and citing Brett fucking Kavanaugh and the White House-influenced investigation as corroborating evidence) shows you are very poorly informed about both subjects.

I'm trying my best to not make this personal, but you should seriously be ashamed of yourself for putting this out there in response to a very well thought out, well reasoned, and informed post.
Any evidence to back it up or just emotions?
I would also love to see any empirical evidence of the existance of rape culture. Again your point is strictly emotional, adults don't discuss difficult topics this way. Scroll down the Page for a statistic of male vs female rape i did provide. The opposing side is yet to provide any.

Just because someone is offended does not make them right.

I did start by saying that i myself know rape victims but without a clear definition of rape, assault and harassment it is impossible to verify the 1 in 3 statistic which unless you include jokes is just impossible to arrive at. That would mean that in England alone you would have around 20 million cases of sexual assault. Laughable.

I adore women and i always fight to protect them (i have three daughters) but these claims are just ludicrous.

Im very sorry that you didnt like what I said, but unless you can prove to me that rape is systemically condoned I will stand by my opinion that rape culture is indeed a figment of the imagination.
 
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nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
30,536
46,628
In that case you need define assault. Is it different than harassment and if so how, and what is harassment? These are vague at best and so it is easy to shout "rape culture". Again I would be grateful for some stats.

I'm pretty much speechless that you can post so much in this thread, and not know the answer to this.

If you don't know the answer Google it.
 

MichaelPawson

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2013
834
2,149
Any evidence to back it up or just emotions?
I would also love to see any empirical evidence of the existance of rape culture. Again your point is strictly emotional, adults don't discuss difficult topics this way. Scroll down the Page for a statistic of male vs female rape i did provide. The opposing side is yet to provide any.

Just because someone is offended does not make them right.

I did start by saying that i myself know rape victims but without a clear definition of rape, assault and harassment it is impossible to verify the 1 in 3 statistic which unless you include jokes is just impossible to arrive at. That would mean that in England alone you would have around 20 million cases of sexual assault. Laughable.

I adore women and i always fight to protect them (i have three daughters) but these claims are just ludicrous.

Im very sorry that you didnt like what I said, but unless you can prove to me that rape is systemically condoned I will stand by my opinion that rape culture is indeed a figment of the imagination.

Just so you know, under no circumstances will I engage in any sort of "debate" with you over this. Debates require two people acting in good faith, and I refuse to trick myself into believing that someone who believes the majority of sexual assault cases are actually "feminists getting offended by mean words" is acting in good faith.

It's important that people like you know how repulsive you sound when you talk complete and utter shit like you are right now. For your sake, as much as anyone else's.

And can we please just fucking stop with the "I have daughters so I can't be a sexist" bullshit? You don't achieve daughters, or earn them through being a good enough guy that you're just granted them. It's a factor of biology. Literally almost half of the world's population are capable of the "credentials" you're citing.
 

sebo_sek

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2005
6,023
5,168
I'm pretty much speechless that you can post so much in this thread, and not know the answer to this.

If you don't know the answer Google it.
Oh no, I am not the one suggesting that 1 in 3 women have been ASSAULTED sexually. I would like to know how one understands the term. I am fully aware of the difference, yet I suspect that many interchange the terms at will. Each one carries a completely different weight. To many assault is synonimous with rape, as is harassment. I simply ask for clarification and other than indignation I am yet to get a clear answer.
 

sebo_sek

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2005
6,023
5,168
Just so you know, under no circumstances will I engage in any sort of "debate" with you over this. Debates require two people acting in good faith, and I refuse to trick myself into believing that someone who believes the majority of sexual assault cases are actually "feminists getting offended by mean words" is acting in good faith.

It's important that people like you know how repulsive you sound when you talk complete and utter shit like you are right now. For your sake, as much as anyone else's.

And can we please just fucking stop with the "I have daughters so I can't be a sexist" bullshit? You don't achieve daughters, or earn them through being a good enough guy that you're just granted them. It's a factor of biology. Literally almost half of the world's population are capable of the "credentials" you're citing.
But you did! I didn't tell you to write anything so you willingly engaged. You just can't anwer any of the questions I asked so you hit back with indignation. it's actually quite common.
 

Tucker

Shitehawk
Jul 15, 2013
31,131
146,025
Any evidence to back it up or just emotions?
I would also love to see any empirical evidence of the existance of rape culture. Again your point is strictly emotional, adults don't discuss difficult topics this way. Scroll down the Page for a statistic of male vs female rape i did provide. The opposing side is yet to provide any.

Just because someone is offended does not make them right.

I did start by saying that i myself know rape victims but without a clear definition of rape, assault and harassment it is impossible to verify the 1 in 3 statistic which unless you include jokes is just impossible to arrive at. That would mean that in England alone you would have around 20 million cases of sexual assault. Laughable.

I adore women and i always fight to protect them (i have three daughters) but these claims are just ludicrous.

Im very sorry that you didnt like what I said, but unless you can prove to me that rape is systemically condoned I will stand by my opinion that rape culture is indeed a figment of the imagination.

I feel really sorry for your daughters.
 
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