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Cristiano Ronaldo’s off the pitch troubles

nedley

John Duncan's Love Child
Jul 28, 2006
13,942
28,069
Sigh, I find it very revealing as well as depressing, to hear that you are able to feel sorry for and empathise with a rich, famous, multi millionaire who could be a potential rapist and yet not one word of sympathy for the alleged rape victim. Let me tell you from personal experience that rape and/or sexual assault is a horrifically traumatic event and one which you carry with you for the rest of your life. I think a lot of men still don't get how pervasive this issue is, one in three women have been sexually assaulted or raped during their lifetime, often more than once. Yet society and it's rape culture have failed women and silenced their voices, which is why it is the most under reported crime in the world.
Firstly, you are scared to come forward because of guilt,shame, fear of retaliation and not being believed. Women often get attacked and smeared for coming forward, it's like being victimised all over again. Rape cases that do get to court also have a shockingly low conviction rate (approx 25% compared with approx 86% of other crimes).

Because of the above, rape and sexual assault victims have lost confidence with a system that repeatedly fails them. Imagine, therefore, how difficult it is for women to come forward with an accusation against powerful/rich/famous men like Ronaldo with their army of lawyers and PR teams?
Ronaldo's life and career will not be ruined unless this case ends up in court and he is convicted, in which case he will deserve it. Meanwhile, the Kindergarten teacher who has given up her job to deal with this,
will no doubt be getting death threats from his fanboys and his highly paid PR team will conduct a vicious smear campaign in an attempt to discredit her. I know who I feel more sympathy for and it isn't him.
In addition, I find this whole pushing back against #metoo with this ''false accusation ' narrative extremely disheartening. False allegations are harmful but incredibly rare for the reasons given above and ironically, men are a thousand times more likely to be a victim of child abuse perpetrated by another man than be falsely accused by a woman. So this victim blaming narrative is equally harmful to men. On the other hand, the only person guaranteed to lie about rape is the rapist themselves.
Also, the oft repeated 'innocent until proven guilty' mantra is only applicable in a court of law where the accused is in danger of imprisonment, getting a criminal record and going on the sex offenders register. None of which is applicable in this case.
However, outside of court, women and men have been driven to social or mainstream media with their allegations against powerful wealthy men because they are fed up of being silenced/let down by society and the justice system and are finally being given a platform for their voice to be heard. But far from having their 'lives ruined' pretty much the worse that has happened to these men, most with multiple credible accusations against them, is that they have been removed from their jobs or are lying low until they think this blows over, this while they still live their multi million $ lifestyles. Let's not forget a man with 20 sexual assault allegations is POTUS and a man with three allegations is likely to be confirmed as a US Supreme court Judge. Plus sex offender Louis CK is now back on the comedy circuit ( even though he is worth $35 million and never has to work again). So no, compared to the millions of rape and sexual assault victims (male and female) who carry their mental scars forever, these men's lives are not being ruined. In fact, if you read a lot of the stories, it's the accusers lives that are often ruined because they lose their job/are blacklisted.
The only time powerful men have/will face any sort of justice is when there have been multiple allegations of rape - Bill Cosby (60 victims) and Weinstein (80+ victims). So the likelihood of Ronaldo facing justice is minimal, because one woman's word never seems to be enough. This is another reason why accused parties should always be named because it encourages other potential victims to come forward and therefore more likely to result in a conviction.
Ultimately, any narrative that only talks about supposed 'false allegations' and how they are 'ruining men's lives' only helps to enable a victim blaming rape culture and prevents victims from speaking out. A man's career is not worth more than a victims trauma.

Huge applause to you sir.
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
30,536
46,628
If she went to the hospital for the rape kit examination wouldn't there be DNA evidence that could be used in court?
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
If she went to the hospital for the rape kit examination wouldn't there be DNA evidence that could be used in court?

Not sure of it's relevancy though (as in whether it can be used as evidence) as his argument would be that she consented unless he has denied having sex with her.
 

Saoirse

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
6,143
15,550
If she went to the hospital for the rape kit examination wouldn't there be DNA evidence that could be used in court?
Not sure of it's relevancy though (as in whether it can be used as evidence) as his argument would be that she consented unless he has denied having sex with her.
Yep, he admitted having sex with her so that's of little use. What might be helpful is that they normally (not sure about Nevada in particular) also include a physical examination for signs of trauma, which could help substantiate her allegation that he forcefully penetrated her anally without lubricant. Obviously this isn't foolproof - he'd likely argue that the sex was very rough but consensual - but it helps.
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
30,536
46,628
Yep, he admitted having sex with her so that's of little use. What might be helpful is that they normally (not sure about Nevada in particular) also include a physical examination for signs of trauma, which could help substantiate her allegation that he forcefully penetrated her anally without lubricant. Obviously this isn't foolproof - he'd likely argue that the sex was very rough but consensual - but it helps.

Yeah, it says in the article that they took photos of her injuries.
 

Saoirse

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
6,143
15,550
Yeah, it says in the article that they took photos of her injuries.

If the settlement is thrown out and all of this is found to be permissable as evidence it really does sound like he could be in a lot of trouble.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
Yep, he admitted having sex with her so that's of little use. What might be helpful is that they normally (not sure about Nevada in particular) also include a physical examination for signs of trauma, which could help substantiate her allegation that he forcefully penetrated her anally without lubricant. Obviously this isn't foolproof - he'd likely argue that the sex was very rough but consensual - but it helps.

Why its so fucking important people feel they can reach out early because these situations are so private that its hard to provide evidence down the line and these examinations will I presume be quite telling.
 

sebo_sek

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2005
6,023
5,168
Sigh, I find it very revealing as well as depressing, to hear that you are able to feel sorry for and empathise with a rich, famous, multi millionaire who could be a potential rapist and yet not one word of sympathy for the alleged rape victim. Let me tell you from personal experience that rape and/or sexual assault is a horrifically traumatic event and one which you carry with you for the rest of your life. I think a lot of men still don't get how pervasive this issue is, one in three women have been sexually assaulted or raped during their lifetime, often more than once. Yet society and it's rape culture have failed women and silenced their voices, which is why it is the most under reported crime in the world.
Firstly, you are scared to come forward because of guilt,shame, fear of retaliation and not being believed. Women often get attacked and smeared for coming forward, it's like being victimised all over again. Rape cases that do get to court also have a shockingly low conviction rate (approx 25% compared with approx 86% of other crimes).

Because of the above, rape and sexual assault victims have lost confidence with a system that repeatedly fails them. Imagine, therefore, how difficult it is for women to come forward with an accusation against powerful/rich/famous men like Ronaldo with their army of lawyers and PR teams?
Ronaldo's life and career will not be ruined unless this case ends up in court and he is convicted, in which case he will deserve it. Meanwhile, the Kindergarten teacher who has given up her job to deal with this,
will no doubt be getting death threats from his fanboys and his highly paid PR team will conduct a vicious smear campaign in an attempt to discredit her. I know who I feel more sympathy for and it isn't him.
In addition, I find this whole pushing back against #metoo with this ''false accusation ' narrative extremely disheartening. False allegations are harmful but incredibly rare for the reasons given above and ironically, men are a thousand times more likely to be a victim of child abuse perpetrated by another man than be falsely accused by a woman. So this victim blaming narrative is equally harmful to men. On the other hand, the only person guaranteed to lie about rape is the rapist themselves.
Also, the oft repeated 'innocent until proven guilty' mantra is only applicable in a court of law where the accused is in danger of imprisonment, getting a criminal record and going on the sex offenders register. None of which is applicable in this case.
However, outside of court, women and men have been driven to social or mainstream media with their allegations against powerful wealthy men because they are fed up of being silenced/let down by society and the justice system and are finally being given a platform for their voice to be heard. But far from having their 'lives ruined' pretty much the worse that has happened to these men, most with multiple credible accusations against them, is that they have been removed from their jobs or are lying low until they think this blows over, this while they still live their multi million $ lifestyles. Let's not forget a man with 20 sexual assault allegations is POTUS and a man with three allegations is likely to be confirmed as a US Supreme court Judge. Plus sex offender Louis CK is now back on the comedy circuit ( even though he is worth $35 million and never has to work again). So no, compared to the millions of rape and sexual assault victims (male and female) who carry their mental scars forever, these men's lives are not being ruined. In fact, if you read a lot of the stories, it's the accusers lives that are often ruined because they lose their job/are blacklisted.
The only time powerful men have/will face any sort of justice is when there have been multiple allegations of rape - Bill Cosby (60 victims) and Weinstein (80+ victims). So the likelihood of Ronaldo facing justice is minimal, because one woman's word never seems to be enough. This is another reason why accused parties should always be named because it encourages other potential victims to come forward and therefore more likely to result in a conviction.
Ultimately, any narrative that only talks about supposed 'false allegations' and how they are 'ruining men's lives' only helps to enable a victim blaming rape culture and prevents victims from speaking out. A man's career is not worth more than a victims trauma.
Ok, here come the negatives...
I woud just like to say that I do know rape victims, actual rape victims and I know the trauma the've been through, so I don't condone this brutal, barbaric crime but...

First of all, the one in three stat is utter nonsense (a source would be nice). That can only be true if we treat jokes or any other verbal content as rape. This is what wild feminists are trying to choke down our thoats, that you can verbally rape someone. You can't. When we exclude those, the stats will plummet and thank God they do. The stats are actually close to 1 in 2 000, which is still horrific, but nowhere near 1 in 3.

Secondly there is no such thing as rape culture. That would mean that rape is tolerated and supported on a systemic level. I would love to see any evidence in support of that in Britain, the US or any other civilised country for that matter. I don't know anyone, anyone who would applaude rape. If you do, time to change your surroundings.

Thirdly, there is this little thing called the presupposition of innocence - in other words innocent until proven guilty. If Ronaldo is guilty, send him to jail for life, but we don't know, so while I feel for the victim, we don't who did it. That's for the court to decide, not the press.

Fourthly the convition rate for rape is low for one of two reasons - A) Verbal abuse is not rape so if you count it you're only bumping stats up. B) Note point three - you can't just convict someone because someone else shouted rape. Sorry. They need to be proven guilty. The burden of proof is on the prosecutor. Or would you like to see it changed?

Fifthly, if it is so under reproted, how do we know they actually happen? Where do those stats come from? If they don't report the cases, who can you say they even took place? It's like saying every soldier died in an engagement yet we know what they said just before dying... You just know it would be a bollocks story. If you know the "unreprted cases" it's because they are reported in one way or another.

Sorry, but in a world where men are actually more likely to get raped than women (inc. prison) I have to react when nonsense is being spewed. When men get raped (by your definition), so jokes are made about their physique, about how cute they are, and so on, do you get as worked up? Just asking.

BTW, just to support what I've been saying: FBI Investigation Exonerates Brett Kavanaugh, Nothing Corroborates Christine Ford’s Claims
 
Last edited:

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
30,536
46,628
Sigh, I find it very revealing as well as depressing, to hear that you are able to feel sorry for and empathise with a rich, famous, multi millionaire who could be a potential rapist and yet not one word of sympathy for the alleged rape victim. Let me tell you from personal experience that rape and/or sexual assault is a horrifically traumatic event and one which you carry with you for the rest of your life. I think a lot of men still don't get how pervasive this issue is, one in three women have been sexually assaulted or raped during their lifetime, often more than once. Yet society and it's rape culture have failed women and silenced their voices, which is why it is the most under reported crime in the world.
Firstly, you are scared to come forward because of guilt,shame, fear of retaliation and not being believed. Women often get attacked and smeared for coming forward, it's like being victimised all over again. Rape cases that do get to court also have a shockingly low conviction rate (approx 25% compared with approx 86% of other crimes).

Because of the above, rape and sexual assault victims have lost confidence with a system that repeatedly fails them. Imagine, therefore, how difficult it is for women to come forward with an accusation against powerful/rich/famous men like Ronaldo with their army of lawyers and PR teams?
Ronaldo's life and career will not be ruined unless this case ends up in court and he is convicted, in which case he will deserve it. Meanwhile, the Kindergarten teacher who has given up her job to deal with this,
will no doubt be getting death threats from his fanboys and his highly paid PR team will conduct a vicious smear campaign in an attempt to discredit her. I know who I feel more sympathy for and it isn't him.
In addition, I find this whole pushing back against #metoo with this ''false accusation ' narrative extremely disheartening. False allegations are harmful but incredibly rare for the reasons given above and ironically, men are a thousand times more likely to be a victim of child abuse perpetrated by another man than be falsely accused by a woman. So this victim blaming narrative is equally harmful to men. On the other hand, the only person guaranteed to lie about rape is the rapist themselves.
Also, the oft repeated 'innocent until proven guilty' mantra is only applicable in a court of law where the accused is in danger of imprisonment, getting a criminal record and going on the sex offenders register. None of which is applicable in this case.
However, outside of court, women and men have been driven to social or mainstream media with their allegations against powerful wealthy men because they are fed up of being silenced/let down by society and the justice system and are finally being given a platform for their voice to be heard. But far from having their 'lives ruined' pretty much the worse that has happened to these men, most with multiple credible accusations against them, is that they have been removed from their jobs or are lying low until they think this blows over, this while they still live their multi million $ lifestyles. Let's not forget a man with 20 sexual assault allegations is POTUS and a man with three allegations is likely to be confirmed as a US Supreme court Judge. Plus sex offender Louis CK is now back on the comedy circuit ( even though he is worth $35 million and never has to work again). So no, compared to the millions of rape and sexual assault victims (male and female) who carry their mental scars forever, these men's lives are not being ruined. In fact, if you read a lot of the stories, it's the accusers lives that are often ruined because they lose their job/are blacklisted.
The only time powerful men have/will face any sort of justice is when there have been multiple allegations of rape - Bill Cosby (60 victims) and Weinstein (80+ victims). So the likelihood of Ronaldo facing justice is minimal, because one woman's word never seems to be enough. This is another reason why accused parties should always be named because it encourages other potential victims to come forward and therefore more likely to result in a conviction.
Ultimately, any narrative that only talks about supposed 'false allegations' and how they are 'ruining men's lives' only helps to enable a victim blaming rape culture and prevents victims from speaking out. A man's career is not worth more than a victims trauma.

Great post.

I don't really understand what you mean by this though, "Also, the oft repeated 'innocent until proven guilty' mantra is only applicable in a court of law where the accused is in danger of imprisonment, getting a criminal record and going on the sex offenders register. None of which is applicable in this case. " The case has been re-opened so surely he's at risk all those things now?
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
30,536
46,628
Ok, here come the negatives...
I woud just like to say that I do know rape victims, actual rape victims and I know the trauma the've been through, so I don't condone this brutal, barbaric crime but...

First of all, the one in three stat is utter nonsense (a source would be nice). That can only be true if we treat jokes or any other verbal content as rape. This is what wild feminists are trying to choke down our thoats, that you can verbally rape someone. You can't. When we exclude those, the stats will plummet and thank God they do. The stats are actually close to 1 in 2 000, which is still horrific, but nowhere near 1 in 3.

Secondly there is no such thing as rape culture. That would mean that rape is tolerated and supported on a systemic level. I would love to see any evidence in support of that in Britain, the US or any other civilised country for that matter. I don't know anyone, anyone who would applaude rape. If you do, time to change your surroundings.

Thirdly, there is this little thing called the presupposition of innocence - in other words innocent until proven guilty. If Ronaldo is guilty, send him to jail for life, but we don't know, so while I feel for the victim, we don't who did it. That's for the court to decide, not the press.

Fourthly the convition rate for rape is low for one of two reasons - A) Verbal abuse is not rape so if you count it you're only bumping stats up. B) Note point three - you can't just convict someone because someone else shouted rape. Sorry. They need to be proven guilty. The burden of proof is on the prosecutor. Or would you like to see it changed?

Fifthly, if it is so under reproted, how do we know they actually happen? Where do those stats come from? If they don't report the cases, who can you say they even took place? It's like saying every soldier died in an engagement yet we know what they said just before dying... You just know it would be a bollocks story. If you know the "unreprted cases" it's because they are reported in one way or another.

Sorry, but in a world where men are actually more likely to get raped than women (inc. prison) I have to react when nonsense is being spewed. When men get raped (by your definition), so jokes are made about their physique, about how cute they are, and so on, do you get as worked up? Just asking.

BTW, just to support what I've been saying: FBI Investigation Exonerates Brett Kavanaugh, Nothing Corroborates Christine Ford’s Claims

You can't have a go at her for not quoting a source for the 1 in 3 claim, and then say men are more likely to be raped than women and then not quote your source.

For what it's worth I can well believe that one in three women have been sexually assaulted (not necessarily raped). I bet the figures on men are surprisingly high as well.

Why are you going on about verbal rape? That hasn't even been mentioned in her post.

Presumption of innocence works both ways. Just because you can't prove something it doesn't mean that the allegations are made up.
 

jezz

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
5,650
8,650
Wow if (big if) he's admitted she said No and stop he's guilty.
 

Dillspur

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2004
3,747
9,926
Ok, here come the negatives...
I woud just like to say that I do know rape victims, actual rape victims and I know the trauma the've been through, so I don't condone this brutal, barbaric crime but...

First of all, the one in three stat is utter nonsense (a source would be nice). That can only be true if we treat jokes or any other verbal content as rape. This is what wild feminists are trying to choke down our thoats, that you can verbally rape someone. You can't. When we exclude those, the stats will plummet and thank God they do. The stats are actually close to 1 in 2 000, which is still horrific, but nowhere near 1 in 3.

Secondly there is no such thing as rape culture. That would mean that rape is tolerated and supported on a systemic level. I would love to see any evidence in support of that in Britain, the US or any other civilised country for that matter. I don't know anyone, anyone who would applaude rape. If you do, time to change your surroundings.

Thirdly, there is this little thing called the presupposition of innocence - in other words innocent until proven guilty. If Ronaldo is guilty, send him to jail for life, but we don't know, so while I feel for the victim, we don't who did it. That's for the court to decide, not the press.

Fourthly the convition rate for rape is low for one of two reasons - A) Verbal abuse is not rape so if you count it you're only bumping stats up. B) Note point three - you can't just convict someone because someone else shouted rape. Sorry. They need to be proven guilty. The burden of proof is on the prosecutor. Or would you like to see it changed?

Fifthly, if it is so under reproted, how do we know they actually happen? Where do those stats come from? If they don't report the cases, who can you say they even took place? It's like saying every soldier died in an engagement yet we know what they said just before dying... You just know it would be a bollocks story. If you know the "unreprted cases" it's because they are reported in one way or another.

Sorry, but in a world where men are actually more likely to get raped than women (inc. prison) I have to react when nonsense is being spewed. When men get raped (by your definition), so jokes are made about their physique, about how cute they are, and so on, do you get as worked up? Just asking.

BTW, just to support what I've been saying: FBI Investigation Exonerates Brett Kavanaugh, Nothing Corroborates Christine Ford’s Claims

The 2 day FBI investigation that had limited scope from the WH and didn't speak to Ford or Kavanaugh or any of his class mates?
 

jezz

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
5,650
8,650
The 2 day FBI investigation that had limited scope from the WH and didn't speak to Ford or Kavanaugh or any of his class mates?
I think it should be postponed till a full investigation has taken place.
 

Saoirse

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
6,143
15,550
I think it should be postponed till a full investigation has taken place.
Problem is there's somewhere around a 30% chance the Democrats will win the Senate in the midterms, and take it over at the start of January. So the Republicans have to get someone voted in before then or risk not being able to at all. Under a more conventional president they'd have probably dumped Kavanaugh ages back and just voted in an alternative (still very very conservative) nominee, but Trump wanted to stick by his man. So they don't have time for a full investigation and just wanted the week-long sham so they have an excuse to get a vote done (and if it fails maybe still have time to push a backup candidate) as soon as they can.
 

sebo_sek

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2005
6,023
5,168
The 2 day FBI investigation that had limited scope from the WH and didn't speak to Ford or Kavanaugh or any of his class mates?
He actually went through a long and thorough investigaton when he received the highest security clearance in the USA, including launch codes. This time around it was pointless to go through the same process again. The first time round they had to speak with everyone he's ever met. That's how thorough it was. It would have come up then.
 

sebo_sek

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2005
6,023
5,168
You can't have a go at her for not quoting a source for the 1 in 3 claim, and then say men are more likely to be raped than women and then not quote your source.

For what it's worth I can well believe that one in three women have been sexually assaulted (not necessarily raped). I bet the figures on men are surprisingly high as well.

Why are you going on about verbal rape? That hasn't even been mentioned in her post.

Presumption of innocence works both ways. Just because you can't prove something it doesn't mean that the allegations are made up.
In that case you need define assault. Is it different than harassment and if so how, and what is harassment? These are vague at best and so it is easy to shout "rape culture". Again I would be grateful for some stats.
 

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Dillspur

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2004
3,747
9,926
He actually went through a long and thorough investigaton when he received the highest security clearance in the USA, including launch codes. This time around it was pointless to go through the same process again. The first time round they had to speak with everyone he's ever met. That's how thorough it was. It would have come up then.

Would it? You think they spoke to the accuser the first time round? Why are class mates coming out saying he's lied under oath, I know that's a different matter but maybe they weren't asking the right questions.

If he has a history of sexual assault (3 women have made allegations right?), he's not going to admit it and he's certainly not going to give up names of those women for the FBI to interview.
 
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