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David Bentley v Aaron Lennon: Dilemmas and contradictions

parj

NDombelly ate all the pies
Jul 27, 2003
3,586
5,861
i've said many times that with bale, modric and dos santos, no longer can teams set their tactics to stop just lennon. it has been clear or the past 2years that lennon was our only creativity from midfield and all teams worked out just double up on him. with a left winger and some real creativity in midfield we could well see lennon back to his best cos he knows it will be one on one.
 

peter123

Member
Jun 16, 2005
906
22
i've said many times that with bale, modric and dos santos, no longer can teams set their tactics to stop just lennon. it has been clear or the past 2years that lennon was our only creativity from midfield and all teams worked out just double up on him. with a left winger and some real creativity in midfield we could well see lennon back to his best cos he knows it will be one on one.


I agree with th above and the chaps talking about coming in and throwing money at the problem. Thing is, this transfer businesses isnt rocket science. How many of us groaned when we saw the 16.5 million price tag on bent. Bentley? Well he's a good player but he's not amazing. Yeah he delivers a good ball but there are still many things Lennon can do that he cant(likes those amazing runs to the by-line).


We are paying top dollar for a good player. Overall is he better than what we've got? Does he give us what we need? Like Bent I dont think so.
 

Jock59

Member
May 11, 2008
23
50
Lennon has no end product - no point in beating a man or 2 if the cross or pass at end of it is poor. And he possesses zilch goal threat (one goal I think last season). He can beat a man and has great pace but without end product that counts for nothing. What concerns me most is that I can see no sign of him developing as a player - if anything he has gone backwards in the last year or so.
Bentley on the other hand is creative, great crosser, takes good dead ball and carries goal threat.
So for me it is no contest - if Bentley replaces Lennon it will greatly improve our team.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
Can I also remind people that Lennon can also play on the left. OK not his favored position but if there are injuries we can always play with Lennon and Bentley. Get both +DM+CB=f**king great squad for next season.
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
Lennon has no end product - no point in beating a man or 2 if the cross or pass at end of it is poor. And he possesses zilch goal threat (one goal I think last season). He can beat a man and has great pace but without end product that counts for nothing. What concerns me most is that I can see no sign of him developing as a player - if anything he has gone backwards in the last year or so.
Bentley on the other hand is creative, great crosser, takes good dead ball and carries goal threat.
So for me it is no contest - if Bentley replaces Lennon it will greatly improve our team.

bentley has a great cross and dead ball but i do not remember him ever slicing open a defence with a pass or picking someone out from distance, which kind of defines being creative.

lennon had a season where his end product was poor, and in the season before he was in the leagues top five assisters, i think that kind of defeats the argument that he has no end product. and as for being creative, i take it you didn't see his 25 yard through ball with the outside of his right foot to put keane through to score against arsenal in the 5-1? Or even the chip over the defence to keane to score against slavia prague in the previous season? Or how about the threaded through ball for Berbatov to score against Chelsea in the 3-3 at stamford bridge int he FA cup in the season before last?

He had a poor season. Sheringham also had a bad season or two for us, and at much older ages than 20. He came back better. Lennon is lightning quick, has amazing control of the ball, is imaginative and unpredictable and on top of that, wins us so many set pieces, both corners and free kicks, in dangerous area's. Hopefully a fit Bale, Modric, and some improvement from Huddlestone or Jenas (or both) see's us score from a few more of these.
 

Coyboy

The Double of 1961 is still The Double
Dec 3, 2004
15,506
5,032
Bentley is a funny case, at least on this forum. Until this indefatigable link surfaced a couple of months ago, I believe the majority of us thought him to be a very good, potentially international class player. As soon as we were linked with him, I was skeptical not only about the likelihood of it happening (he seems desperate for Champions League football and the international recognition that brings) but also about how he would fit into the team. He is an excellent crosser of the ball, he is a lot better than Lennon at delivering curled, accurate and fast paced balls into the box. He is unrivalled in this respect. He is also a lot better than Lennon, and maybe always will be, at long distance shooting. He seems to have the Beckham gift of power and accuracy. He is also a very good finisher, as Beckham was in his day. His assists and goal tally speak for themselves.

But I don’t think he would improve us to justify his asking price and the possible negative ramifications for writing off Lennon. Bentley has provided a number of assists because his strikers- this year Santa Cruz and Roberts- and last year McCarthy are players that attack the front post and time their runs better than Berbatov, Keane or even Bent. That is not to say, they makes his crosses look good. But Lennon has on countless occasions put excellent crosses into the box that Berbatov or Keane had neither the willingness nor ability to attack. That is not to excuse Lennon. He has delivered a poor ratio of assists this season and he often gets immaturely, though understandably, frustrated with himself and his team mates. But Lennon is far quicker than Bentley. That is inherent and undeniable. He is also a far more skillful player than Bentley. He is therefore better suited to a team that plays with more skillful and/or quick players (Modric, Dos Santos, Jenas, Berbatov, Keane and Huddlestone).

Although he is quick and skillful, he often struggles when he receives the ball thirty or forty yards up the pitch and immediately has three or four players around him, as everyone but Lionel Messi would. To counter that, we have Luka Modric. If we can get this player to use the ball quickly, effectively and with the guile that he has shown in Austria and Switzerland, we can offset Lennon being neutralized by two or three opposition players because he can run on to passes and deliver crosses or through balls before the defense has caught up. Everyone associates Lennon with pace and little more. He has so much more to offer. For one, he is an excellent finisher. He has shown that on many occasions, mainly in his second season but before and after too. He has the intelligence and pace to get into positions to score that Bentley simply hasn’t. He is also a very good at linking up play in small areas which is why I would like to see him more through the middle at times and thus allowing Hutton the space (which when congested with a neutralized Lennon and three defenders is not readily available) to attack down the right.

Lennon needs competition. But given his style, inevitable price and lack of pace and imagination, Bentley would not be the right addition to our team.
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
17,608
5
I deffo want us to get Bentley - he gives us options as people have said

the original piece is well written, but I must query this

'Often watching Bentley I feel he lacks the requisite pace for a modern winger'

Like Beckham and Downing?

Surely the fact that England's 3 best recent wingers - Beckham Downing and Bentley all lack pace goes directly against the original assertion

another example is Gamst Pedersen, a prolific winger in terms of goals and assists over the years, who is not known for his pace I believe

In fact you could say the key requirements for a modern winger are to cross well, score some goals and generally get in assists often from dead ball situations, and also do your bit in tracking back - winning the mid battle etc -

I suspect Bentley will give us a physical edge Lennon lacks, and size wise a mid of say Bentley Modric JJ and one from say GDS/Bale/Gilberto/Steed is liable to be better balanced than any mid containing Lennon and Modric

That's not to write off Lennon or to say he can't play with Modric, just that much then will depend on the rest of the formation - I'm sure that overall both Lennon and Bentley can contribute to the squad game that football is at the top level

However, I often see mids containing Lennon Modric and GDS posted on these boards - and to me that is not going to happen, except occasionally, Prem football is too physically powerful for such a trio - so again Bentley gives us options in combining with those other two

Going back to the original point re pace, the truth is probably somehere in the middle - it is still important in many cases but certainly not paramount in all

I'm not sure how fast Ashley Young is rated as - but I suspect (and I don't have the stats, so may be wrong) most of his assists don't come from pace, they come from crosses, often from dead ball situs

It's true the return of Bale will strengthen our dead ball options, but I don't want us relying on Bale - so Bentley will give us a vital option here.

From my own viewing I haven't seen enough of Bentley, to make a conclusive judgement. But if JR and the '4 amigos' in general want him, I can see why, and that in turn makes me definite in my judgement - yep get the lad in.

I became a Bentley convert with the superb piece of skill he showed to create the equalizer v us at Ewood - and indeed his general performance that day was top notch
 

batigol

Active Member
Dec 6, 2006
851
178
'Often watching Bentley I feel he lacks the requisite pace for a modern winger'

Like Beckham and Downing?

Surely the fact that England's 3 best recent wingers - Beckham Downing and Bentley all lack pace goes directly against the original assertion

another example is Gamst Pedersen, a prolific winger in terms of goals and assists over the years, who is not known for his pace I believe

I said it before and I will say it again. It is really difficult to compare Lennon against Bentley because they are actually quite different players. Lennon is a true winger who runs to the bye-line to make his crosses while Bentley is a right-sided midfield player who can shift the ball to one side quickly and make a deep cross. You will not see Lennon crossing from the deep often just as you won't see Bentley running right down to the bye-line make a cross as a norm.

So my main issue with your post is that you highlighted Beckham and Bentley as wingers which I do not think they are. They are right sided midfielders who lack the pace to go past defenders but have a great crossing ability and thus tend to cross from deep. I can accept Downing as a winger because he does play like one sometimes but he notably have greater pace than Bentley and Beckham. Not quick but fast enough.

Anyway, I agree that they offer something different to our team and if Bentley isn't too exorbitantly priced like the papers indicate then I am fine with recruiting him in. One thing for sure, we will be foolish to write off and sell Lennon now.
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
17,608
5
ISo my main issue with your post is that you highlighted Beckham and Bentley as wingers which I do not think they are. They are right sided midfielders who lack the pace to go past defenders but have a great crossing ability and thus tend to cross from deep. I can accept Downing as a winger because he does play like one sometimes but he notably have greater pace than Bentley and Beckham. Not quick but fast enough.

.

fair enough BG - take your point - we agree that Bentley gives us good options

As long as we get Bently in - I don't mind his job spec :)
 

batigol

Active Member
Dec 6, 2006
851
178
fair enough BG - take your point - we agree that Bentley gives us good options

As long as we get Bently in - I don't mind his job spec :)

Cheers to that DC :beer:(as long as it isn't the reported 15 million pounds)
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
17,608
5
Cheers to that DC :beer:(as long as it isn't the reported 15 million pounds)

:) BG - TBH I don't care if it is £15m (though remember that'll probably be more like £12m in instalments and £3m add-ons)

I trust the '4' to do a good deal - and as I've said a fair few times - if we really want to compete with the 'big boys' - we're gonna have to spend big - there's no guarantee it will work - but I can pretty much guarantee that unless we splash the cash we won't be breaking into the big 4 anytime soon
 

steve

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2003
3,503
1,767
For all the talk of Lennon being an out and out winger, I think he could go the way of Giggs and develop his game more centrally as it is the curse of all wingers to be cut off from decent supply and then get accused of drifting in and out of games.

It is the very nature of the beast in that when playing in an extreme position as does a traditional winger you are at the mercy of the rest of the team. I mean, you get torn between going inside or deeper to look for the ball and thereby lose shape for the team and an outlet for them or you maintain your wide position and don't see the ball for long periods of the game. All wingers suffer it from time to time especially those in teams with poor midfields as our was for much of last season. It looks worse when the opposition double up on you as they regard you as a threat and so when you get the ball you are very limited in your attacking options.

The game that showed just how effective Lennon can be playing inside was when he played behind the strikers against chavcki in the 3-3 draw away a few years ago. Chelsea had no answer to his fast breaks and simple short passing and movement. I seem to remember Jol saying just as much that lennon had the potential to play there.

So crossing aside (which has improved) he has plenty of potential that I am sure with better supply and understanding of his role in the team will come through.

As a footnote, the author of the piece is, apart from being somewhat insulting, showing his ignorance 'with the 10 minutes extra training' comment. Infact, this, (albeit usually longer than 10 minutes) is exactly what players do on a regular basis to improve aspects of their game outside of the normal training sessions. It is always on going work. I know from first hand experience.

Agree with pretty much all of that. Out of interest the stats for the last 3 seasons are as follows......

Lennon 2007/8 2006/7 2005/6

Goals 2 3 2
Goal assist 3 7 3


Bentley 2007/8 2006/7 2005/6

Goals 6 4 3
Goal assist 9 8 1

I would take Bentley no question, and don't see why it has to be either/or. If we want to challenge the best then we need a stronger squad and greater competition and he will provide that.
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
17,608
5
Good stat research Steve :) As you say Bentley and Lennon would be good to have both
 
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