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Defining moments

Haddock

Captain
Oct 16, 2017
2,025
6,357
People keep saying we need to win something to keep the players we have. How about saying if these players cannot win something soon we need to upgrade them.

We don't have the money or stature, yet, to improve most positions in our first eleven.
 

Phil-spur99

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
1,585
2,815
The players do need to look at themselves in these games. There is no devine right to win trophies and we haven’t turned up in the big games. That is on the players, they can’t blame how much they are paid a week or transfer budgets (we easily beat Utd in the league), it’s a mentality / stage fright issue.
 
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rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,904
78,638
The players do not to look at themselves in these games. There is no devine right to win trophies and we haven’t truned up in the big games. That is on the players, they can’t blame how much they are paid a week or transfer budgets (we easily beat Utd in the league), it’s a mentality / stage fright issue.
They do but part of the problem with footballers is that they will mostly look at others and have the opinion that others are 'holding them back', and in this day and age they'll just leave if they keep ending up on the losing side. We need to avoid that.

For example yesterday, Alli gets the goal and gives the team a lift and something to build on. Ten minutes later Dembele is caught out in a totally unavoidable situation. It's only naturally for players like Alli to think that Dembele has let him down.

Look at Sanchez at Arsenal, was sick of others letting him down constantly so started to become petulant and leave. That's a worry for us unless we fix these weak areas. Because we all know if Alli was to leave he'd go on to win things.

It's worrying because Alli looked fed up and extremely pissed off yesterday. That will only happen so many times before he asks to leave and we can sit here and say "well, he's on the pitch too, he's part of the problem" and "we don't want that mentality at the club" etc but we all know he'll leave and go on to win things, whilst we'll struggle to replace him and win nothing. We need to seriously fix the weak aspects at this club. Time to be a bit ruthless.
 

bk75

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2008
349
914
Walking home yesterday surrounded by Man Utd fans. I actually approached one to be gracious
saying well done. You know what I got? a sneer do we want to be like that, support a club that when
they win it just feels false. I don’t I’m prepared to wait because I know when we do win a trophy it wont
be false, it won’t feel worthless it will feel bloody good!.

Also they see us as a major scalp now judging by the songs they were singing. We are not insignificant
to them anymore. Onwards and upward, secure top 4 which will be amazing imo. Then new stadium
I will be there in the South Stand cheering them on. COYS!
 

ljinko888

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2016
2,080
5,376
  • We could have gone top of the league beating West Ham at Upton Park at the start of March 2016. Had we won, we then could have built a six point gap before Leicester played their next game by winning the NLD in the early Saturday kick off. We took 1/6 points.

  • We should have gone through in the Europa League last season. It took a lot of banging on the door to score two goals. Off memory we hit the post twice and had a shot cleared off the line at 1-1 before Wanyama scored a belter. Still needed one more goal but we cocked up in a rare attack from Gent and it's tie over.

  • We could have beaten Chelsea in the SF last season and won a cup, perhaps changing the tide of the title race too. At 2-2 the momentum was with us, but we get done from a corner and a wonder strike kills the hope.

  • We outplayed Juventus for most of the 180 minutes yet were knocked out on aggregate.

  • And then there was yesterday. 1-0 up deservedly, gift an equaliser, go 2-1 down and never recover. There was plenty of time left but we looked deflated.

I'm not saying we should have won them all, but the fact is we didn't win any. Utd despite their systematic flaws are in a fourth cup final in three years. Chelsea will likely play them and try salvage a poor season with an FA Cup. Arsenal have a European SF and so have Liverpool in a more prestigious competition. We were in the Europa for years and made just one SF.

Then there's City who took our right back and strolled to the title.

Despite our club being the most stable of them all in recent years, we have nothing to show for it. We're the only "top six" club not to make a cup final in the last three seasons. The weakest team of Poch's reign made one in 2014/15. And in that game we started well too, Eriksen hit the bar but then Terry seized on poor defending and from there it was a lost cause. At 1-0 yesterday we worked the ball into good areas but we didn't make the most of it. It's almost taunting that the second goal for Utd came off a mis-control from Lukaku. It takes us so much effort to score yet our opponents seemed to only need a couple of forays forward.
 

topper

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2008
3,806
16,254
  • We could have gone top of the league beating West Ham at Upton Park at the start of March 2016. Had we won, we then could have built a six point gap before Leicester played their next game by winning the NLD in the early Saturday kick off. We took 1/6 points.

  • We should have gone through in the Europa League last season. It took a lot of banging on the door to score two goals. Off memory we hit the post twice and had a shot cleared off the line at 1-1 before Wanyama scored a belter. Still needed one more goal but we cocked up in a rare attack from Gent and it's tie over.

  • We could have beaten Chelsea in the SF last season and won a cup, perhaps changing the tide of the title race too. At 2-2 the momentum was with us, but we get done from a corner and a wonder strike kills the hope.

  • We outplayed Juventus for most of the 180 minutes yet were knocked out on aggregate.

  • And then there was yesterday. 1-0 up deservedly, gift an equaliser, go 2-1 down and never recover. There was plenty of time left but we looked deflated.

I'm not saying we should have won them all, but the fact is we didn't win any. Utd despite their systematic flaws are in a fourth cup final in three years. Chelsea will likely play them and try salvage a poor season with an FA Cup. Arsenal have a European SF and so have Liverpool in a more prestigious competition. We were in the Europa for years and made just one SF.
K
Then there's City who took our right back and strolled to the title.

Despite our club being the most stable of them all in recent years, we have nothing to show for it. We're the only "top six" club not to make a cup final in the last three seasons. The weakest team of Poch's reign made one in 2014/15. And in that game we started well too, Eriksen hit the bar but then Terry seized on poor defending and from there it was a lost cause. At 1-0 yesterday we worked the ball into good areas but we didn't make the most of it. It's almost taunting that the second goal for Utd came off a mis-control from Lukaku. It takes us so much effort to score yet our opponents seemed to only need a couple of forays forward.

Must have missed that!
 

topper

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2008
3,806
16,254
Ah yes I keep thinking the Sevilla 4-3 game was a Semi final.

Kind of makes the whole thing even worse now
To be honest it wouldn't have mattered much if we had've beaten Seville - as we all know what we're like at semi-finals!
 

Houdini

No better cure for the blues than some good pussy.
Jul 10, 2006
56,722
78,449
We need to stop and realise that these past few years are the best we have had for a long long time... League wise.
Poch is doing the best he can with what he has got in my opinion, unlike City who have only to throw money at players and therefore buy success..as did Chelsea.
Enjoy what we have, it could finish all too soon, imagine being in the position Arsenal are in....

Oh, hold on..
 

Gaz_Gammon

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2005
16,047
18,013
We need to stop and realise that these past few years are the best we have had for a long long time... League wise.
Poch is doing the best he can with what he has got in my opinion, unlike City who have only to throw money at players and therefore buy success..as did Chelsea.
Enjoy what we have, it could finish all too soon, imagine being in the position Arsenal are in....

Oh, hold on..


I note that many in here are whining about us coming up short in a semi final, and failing to win the PL when in a good position to do so.

Poch has gotten the club to the point in time where we are disappointed not to get across the winning line into a final, or indeed in winning a Trophy in a final.

I can remember many, many times (over the past forty odd years) when we fell at the first or second hurdle, were always elusive in qualifying for Europe even for the Europa League, which at one time was our Holy Grail. Now it's likely to be our third straight CL qualification (ask Chel$ea and Woolwich if they'd swap places with us right now?)

I dispel what punters and other fans say to be honest as they don't follow the Club week in and week out, have little knowledge of our history (unless it's only a week old) and still do not understand or have lost the plot in the fact that we have not played a "home" game this season.

From "struggling to win at Wembley" yesterday those very same pundits were saying we had "home advantage" such is their attention span on what they say, that in general lasts around the same time as that of a Goldfish. That is why none of us should take them seriously.

I always think back to the days of Sherwood, Ramos (though we did win something), Gross, Francis, Graham (likewise with silverware) and shudder to think that we could be watching a club managed by Moyes, Allardyce, or God forbid Pardew.

You simply have to believe me when i say that we have (since Burkinshaw) never had it so good, and i do sometimes relish punters and press naming us as "nearly men" and "legends" or "they need to win something soon" because that means that we are indeed there or thereabouts which is a damn sight better than seeing our season end in January which was pretty much the case before Pochettino darkened the Managers office door.
 

riggi

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2008
48,486
104,718
Spurs are a project at the moment. To abandon the project halfway through would be stupid.

Half way? I hope you mean poch because If you mean we are halfway through enics project then I fear I'll be a grandad by the time we win something!
 
D

Deleted member 27995

I note that many in here are whining about us coming up short in a semi final, and failing to win the PL when in a good position to do so.

Poch has gotten the club to the point in time where we are disappointed not to get across the winning line into a final, or indeed in winning a Trophy in a final.

I can remember many, many times (over the past forty odd years) when we fell at the first or second hurdle, were always elusive in qualifying for Europe even for the Europa League, which at one time was our Holy Grail. Now it's likely to be our third straight CL qualification (ask Chel$ea and Woolwich if they'd swap places with us right now?)

I dispel what punters and other fans say to be honest as they don't follow the Club week in and week out, have little knowledge of our history (unless it's only a week old) and still do not understand or have lost the plot in the fact that we have not played a "home" game this season.

From "struggling to win at Wembley" yesterday those very same pundits were saying we had "home advantage" such is their attention span on what they say, that in general lasts around the same time as that of a Goldfish. That is why none of us should take them seriously.

I always think back to the days of Sherwood, Ramos (though we did win something), Gross, Francis, Graham (likewise with silverware) and shudder to think that we could be watching a club managed by Moyes, Allardyce, or God forbid Pardew.

You simply have to believe me when i say that we have (since Burkinshaw) never had it so good, and i do sometimes relish punters and press naming us as "nearly men" and "legends" or "they need to win something soon" because that means that we are indeed there or thereabouts which is a damn sight better than seeing our season end in January which was pretty much the case before Pochettino darkened the Managers office door.
What a fucking post! (my time line isn't as long but fuck it)
 

rocklink

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2013
1,613
2,558
They do but part of the problem with footballers is that they will mostly look at others and have the opinion that others are 'holding them back', and in this day and age they'll just leave if they keep ending up on the losing side. We need to avoid that.

For example yesterday, Alli gets the goal and gives the team a lift and something to build on. Ten minutes later Dembele is caught out in a totally unavoidable situation. It's only naturally for players like Alli to think that Dembele has let him down.

Look at Sanchez at Arsenal, was sick of others letting him down constantly so started to become petulant and leave. That's a worry for us unless we fix these weak areas. Because we all know if Alli was to leave he'd go on to win things.

It's worrying because Alli looked fed up and extremely pissed off yesterday. That will only happen so many times before he asks to leave and we can sit here and say "well, he's on the pitch too, he's part of the problem" and "we don't want that mentality at the club" etc but we all know he'll leave and go on to win things, whilst we'll struggle to replace him and win nothing. We need to seriously fix the weak aspects at this club. Time to be a bit ruthless.

Dembele, lamela and son - these 3 players will be sold if we are ruthless in the next window.
 

worcestersauce

"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
Jan 23, 2006
26,891
45,039
I think Allyid has it right, it feels like a defining moment.
Coming out after the game yesterday it was a subdued sort of atmosphere, I know we lost and so it would be but I mean even any anger was subdued, it was more reflective and a realisation that we need another something that is missing.
Personally I think what is defining is that we have reached the end of the road for our recruitmant policy, we have got to the point where if we bring in players for the future or at the level we now have then we will continue as we are, our side will get better because our players are still young enough to get alot better but we are now at the point where we can go that extra level in fees and wages to bring in players to make a difference straight away.
I don't say we need to stop the old and start the new, we just need to add the new to the old, I also think after yesterday the argument that to bring in some big price tag player on higher wages than some of our existing players would destroy the cameraderie won't run any more, quite the opposite actually, if we spend the real big money on a high value player then our squad is far more likely to see it as a statement of intent, that we are not prepared to fall at the final hurdle any more and that's what they want.
Until now it hasn't been an option but with our big new shiny toy taking shape that changes and I believe it changes in a defining manner.
 

Gaz_Gammon

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2005
16,047
18,013
I think Allyid has it right, it feels like a defining moment.
Coming out after the game yesterday it was a subdued sort of atmosphere, I know we lost and so it would be but I mean even any anger was subdued, it was more reflective and a realisation that we need another something that is missing.
Personally I think what is defining is that we have reached the end of the road for our recruitmant policy, we have got to the point where if we bring in players for the future or at the level we now have then we will continue as we are, our side will get better because our players are still young enough to get alot better but we are now at the point where we can go that extra level in fees and wages to bring in players to make a difference straight away.
I don't say we need to stop the old and start the new, we just need to add the new to the old, I also think after yesterday the argument that to bring in some big price tag player on higher wages than some of our existing players would destroy the cameraderie won't run any more, quite the opposite actually, if we spend the real big money on a high value player then our squad is far more likely to see it as a statement of intent, that we are not prepared to fall at the final hurdle any more and that's what they want.
Until now it hasn't been an option but with our big new shiny toy taking shape that changes and I believe it changes in a defining manner.


If we don't invest in better players whatever their age how do you expect the team to progress? The list of our best players wanting to leave over the years is because of what you are suggesting we don't do.

Do you truly think that Kane, Dele, Toby, Dier, Lloris, Jan feel, that they will win silverware playing alongside the likes of Aurier, Sissoko, Llorente, Janssen, and GKN?

That quality of player gets us to where we are now, and evidently no further. Invest in quality and forget the quantity and that in a nutshell is what Poch was questioning last night post match.

"Camaraderie" only takes a player so far, just ask Walker.
 

worcestersauce

"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
Jan 23, 2006
26,891
45,039
If we don't invest in better players whatever their age how do you expect the team to progress? The list of our best players wanting to leave over the years is because of what you are suggesting we don't do.

Do you truly think that Kane, Dele, Toby, Dier, Lloris, Jan feel, that they will win silverware playing alongside the likes of Aurier, Sissoko, Llorente, Janssen, and GKN?

That quality of player gets us to where we are now, and evidently no further. Invest in quality and forget the quantity and that in a nutshell is what Poch was questioning last night post match.

"Camaraderie" only takes a player so far, just ask Walker.
No not really and that is what I said in my post, I respectfully put it to you that you misread my post.:)
 

cliff jones

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
4,057
6,511
I cant see anyone worth listening too suggesting we should even think for a second about changing Poch, we fell narrowly short again yesterday mainly because Kane and Davies and to a degree Dembele are struggling, without viable fit alternatives in the squad. When the prizes are handed out you need a bit of luck with injuries and no Rose, Winks or Kane as we know and love him took its toll.

We were the width of the post away from regaining the lead or Vorm or Davies reacting better to keeping it all square, fine margins and all that.

In terms of freshening up the squad I hope it'll be third time lucky with a CF, the rest depends on departures but I wouldn't shake it up too much.

I just hope we can find our way to 75 points, and this is where the coach has to show he can lift the squad to break down the handful of bus parkers that still stand in our way...
 
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