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Deloitte Football Money League: The top eight Prem clubs...

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
A mixture of a half remembered something I read somewhere, and the logic of their population being circa 80m to England's 50m, their GDP per capita being higher, and their over all GDP being far higher thus meaning the market being worth more than our's (i.e. potential to sell more stuff). And as I say them being the only truly super club in their league.

It maybe labours the point, but to point out what I'm sure you know, that football is supported through the turnstiles in Germany more than it is in England meaning, I'd have thought, at least as great an appetite for football in Germany.


But turnstiles are covered by "matchday" income. Commercial covers merchandising, sponsorship etc. for the purpose of this survey.

I would love to know how Bayern are squeezing €100m more through merchandise and sponsorship (and other) out of the world than Barca. I appreciate the German economy is much stronger than the Spanish, which is on it's knees, but Barca would seem to have the rest of the globe sown up, probably the biggest brand in football globally, and have for example two of the three most marketable players in the world right now in Neymar and Messi.

A look at their social media following is indicative of this with Barca trouncing Bayern 81m-26m FB and 13.8 to 1.8 TW.

When even Real Madrid are outperforming Barca by 40m I think Barca are seriously under performing commercially.
 

jambreck

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2013
3,200
5,879
That load of old bollocks is definitely not a key metric, plenty of people don't have Twatter or Pussbook.

It's a key metric as far as sponsors are concerned. It matters. And since the discussion is specifically about our greater commercial income than the likes of Everton and Newcastle, it's very relevant.
 

sloth

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2005
9,018
6,900
It's a key metric as far as sponsors are concerned. It matters. And since the discussion is specifically about our greater commercial income than the likes of Everton and Newcastle, it's very relevant.

I don't know what the ratio of Twitter followers to selling stuff to people is, but if you're saying that sponsors give us money mainly due to our direct support as evinced by Twitter followers and Facebook likes, rather than global exposure via the PL, then think about it, what you are saying is that our 500,000 followers converts to £40m of sponsorship, or £80 per follower (which you'll also have to apply a multiplier to because they're not in the business of spending the same on marketing as they make in sales (£1 of marketing has to equal more than £1 of sales otherwise it doesn't make sense)). If that is your claim then I'm sorry imo it's insane!

It also doesn't make sense in terms of the massive deals competitions like the World Cup get, which is clearly due to massive global exposure rather than people supporting FIFA directly.

In other words it's far more important that they can get global brand awareness because 10s of millions watch our matches around the world because it's the PL, than because people watch our matches because they directly support Spurs. All of which tallies with my experience here in India and other's will confirm if they live elsewhere in the world, where almost no one supports Spurs, but many millions watch the PL. Basically I'd be amazed if as much as one in ten who watch our matches support us.
 

jambreck

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2013
3,200
5,879
I don't know what the ratio of Twitter followers to selling stuff to people is, but if you're saying that sponsors give us money mainly due to our direct support as evinced by Twitter followers and Facebook likes, rather than global exposure via the PL, then what you are saying is that our 500,000 followers converts to £40m of sponsorship, or £80 per follower, which is clearly insane!

It also doesn't make sense in terms of the massive deals competitions like the World Cup get, which is clearly due to massive global exposure rather than people supporting FIFA directly.

In other words it's far more important that they can get global brand awareness because 10s of millions watch our matches around the world because it's the PL, than because people directly support Spurs. All of which tallies with my experience here in India and other's will confirm if they live elsewhere in the world, where almost no one supports Spurs, but many millions watch the PL.

Of course the global exposure of the PL is by far the biggest driver of sponsorship income. But numbers of fans per club and social media presence - whether rightly or wrongly - clearly influence the commercial worth of a club to sponsors. It's not just down to superior negotiating skills on the part of Levy. It's not an accident that the biggest clubs attract the biggest sponsorship deals.
 

Mullers

Unknown member
Jan 4, 2006
25,914
16,413
It's a key metric as far as sponsors are concerned. It matters. And since the discussion is specifically about our greater commercial income than the likes of Everton and Newcastle, it's very relevant.
I would be surprised if that's the case, from an online perspective social networking is important for a site/business because it means less reliance on google in the search results, I'd be surprised if social networking influences the commercial worth of a club to sponsors, especially with Facebook changing their reach metric system.
 

sloth

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2005
9,018
6,900
Of course the global exposure of the PL is by far the biggest driver of sponsorship income. But numbers of fans per club and social media presence - whether rightly or wrongly - clearly influence the commercial worth of a club to sponsors. It's not just down to superior negotiating skills on the part of Levy. It's not an accident that the biggest clubs attract the biggest sponsorship deals.

Nothing is simply this or that, but neither AIG or UA sponsor us, for example, because of the one in 20 (or whatever it is) people who watch Spurs globally actually support us and are therefore going to buy their insurance product or sportswear they do it for the prestige of being associated with the PL and for the global reach that money buys them, for the fact that millions and millions around the world will see their logos.

We get £20m each season more than Everton or Toon because Levy has struck better deals on the back of virtually the same number of people watching us around the globe as watch them. This is different, btw, than with the truly big clubs who will have many many more people watching them than us, because their support base is not largely local and mainly dependent on being in the PL.
 

crokey

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2012
2,433
7,467
Nothing is simply this or that, but neither AIG or UA sponsor us, for example, because of the one in 20 (or whatever it is) people who watch Spurs globally actually support us and are therefore going to buy their insurance product or sportswear they do it for the prestige of being associated with the PL and for the global reach that money buys them, for the fact that millions and millions around the world will see their logos.

We get £20m each season more than Everton or Toon because Levy has struck better deals on the back of virtually the same number of people watching us around the globe as watch them. This is different, btw, than with the truly big clubs who will have many many more people watching them than us, because their support base is not largely local and mainly dependent on being in the PL.

I get your point and I do agree that your Bayerns and Madrids are light years ahead of us in actual supporter numbers, but I think you're underestimating the gulf in support a team like Tottenham has in comparison to your Newcastles and your Evertons
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,006
29,551
Nothing is simply this or that, but neither AIG or UA sponsor us, for example, because of the one in 20 (or whatever it is) people who watch Spurs globally actually support us and are therefore going to buy their insurance product or sportswear they do it for the prestige of being associated with the PL and for the global reach that money buys them, for the fact that millions and millions around the world will see their logos.

We get £20m each season more than Everton or Toon because Levy has struck better deals on the back of virtually the same number of people watching us around the globe as watch them. This is different, btw, than with the truly big clubs who will have many many more people watching them than us, because their support base is not largely local and mainly dependent on being in the PL.
Same number of people watching us?

You wrong on that count, Newcastle were a championship club 3 years ago and had nobody watching them bar the UK. Everton have never been a top club.

Whereas we have consistently been in Europe for 5 years and bar one season we have been in Europe since 2006 which is 9 years. We get a bigger audience share because of that.

As for viewing figures for the UK here is the most watched teams, we are 6th whilst Newcastle and Everton are much lower
PL-TV-13-14-full-breakdown.jpg


If you want to compare Commercial revenue then you should compare us to Man City before they won the title or the season they won the title as they didn't have an established fan base.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
Not at all. Whilst Levy has done well comerically, it's 90% done to the London economy compared to Liverpool or Newcastle. There just isn't the money up there.

Liverpool, as a club, is a bit different, as they have a much bigger country and world wide following, and people go there from all over.

The only thing we might get more from than those clubs for being in London is matchday revenue (even though we have a smaller stadium). Kit sponsors etc... don't care where we are playing it is about reach (tv viewing figures) and winning.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
One thing I found astounding, reading the full report is how much more commercial revenue Bayern Munich generate (€290m) than others including Barcelona (over €100m more than Barca).

The highest commercial revenue team, PSG (€327m) can be ignored as this is largely made up from bullshit Qatari "sponsorship".

If I were the president of Barca I'd be head hunting the commercial director of Bayern Munich asap, because there is no way that Bayern should be commercially more successful than Barca, just check out their respective social media popularity of example, Barca pisses Bayern for global appeal.

Probably because Germans have got jobs and can afford to buy stuff.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
Same number of people watching us?

You wrong on that count, Newcastle were a championship club 3 years ago and had nobody watching them bar the UK. Everton have never been a top club.

They've won the league a lot more times than us and a lot more recently.
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,006
29,551
They've won the league a lot more times than us and a lot more recently.
You're talking about a big club in this country, since the PL a big club has mainly been about your subscription to the top 4 and they have not been consistent enough ever since the PL became one of the best leagues in the world

I dont despite they are a big club but globally they are smaller than us because of the rise of the PL
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
You're talking about a big club in this country, since the PL a big club has mainly been about your subscription to the top 4 and they have not been consistent enough ever since the PL became one of the best leagues in the world

I dont despite they are a big club but globally they are smaller than us because of the rise of the PL

We're not a big club either on that rationale and are a lot closer to Everton in terms of size than Arsenal.
 

stemark44

Well-Known Member
Mar 17, 2005
6,598
1,829
But turnstiles are covered by "matchday" income. Commercial covers merchandising, sponsorship etc. for the purpose of this survey.

I would love to know how Bayern are squeezing €100m more through merchandise and sponsorship (and other) out of the world than Barca. I appreciate the German economy is much stronger than the Spanish, which is on it's knees, but Barca would seem to have the rest of the globe sown up, probably the biggest brand in football globally, and have for example two of the three most marketable players in the world right now in Neymar and Messi.

A look at their social media following is indicative of this with Barca trouncing Bayern 81m-26m FB and 13.8 to 1.8 TW.

When even Real Madrid are outperforming Barca by 40m I think Barca are seriously under performing commercially.

Allianz,Adidas and Audi are all pretty big companies who all sponsor Bayern and who also own a percentage of the club.
 

Flashspur

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2012
6,882
9,068
A mixture of a half remembered something I read somewhere, and the logic of their population being circa 80m to England's 50m, their GDP per capita being higher, and their over all GDP being far higher thus meaning the market being worth more than our's (i.e. potential to sell more stuff). And as I say them being the only truly super club in their league.

It maybe labours the point, but to point out what I'm sure you know, that football is supported through the turnstiles in Germany more than it is in England meaning, I'd have thought, at least as great an appetite for football in Germany.

Actually Bayern's success is down to the fact that they are defacto representative team for the State of Bavaria. Its very similar to Barca representing Catalonia for example. That's almost 7 million Catalonian's supporting a single team with the likes of Espanyol etc rarely getting an eye in.

Both teams belong to regions which have their own idiosyncratic cultures and language (yes Bavarian German is quite distinct from German spoken in the North) plus Bavaria is Catholic and has always felt unloved by the North of the country. Its the largest state and the second largest by population in Germany. Bavarians have often emphasized a separate national identity and considered themselves as "Bavarians" first, "Germans" second. There is still an opposition party that runs on that platform. Bavaria shares a border with Catholic Austria and has had political and cultural affinity with the Austrians as well. Relegious discrimination has always been an issue in the past from the Protestant north which has further enhanced the Bavarian sense of 'separateness'.

Its created a kind of a country within a country much like Barca in Catalonia and gets fanatical support from Bavarians as a result. That's 12 and a half million by the way. Yes there are other football teams in Bavaria as well but everyone supports Bayern or has them as their second team because of the Bavarian identity. Thats a lot of commercial opportunities right there!
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
Actually Bayern's success is down to the fact that they are defacto representative team for the State of Bavaria. Its very similar to Barca representing Catalonia for example. That's almost 7 million Catalonian's supporting a single team with the likes of Espanyol etc rarely getting an eye in.

Both teams belong to regions which have their own idiosyncratic cultures and language (yes Bavarian German is quite distinct from German spoken in the North) plus Bavaria is Catholic and has always felt unloved by the North of the country. Its the largest state and the second largest by population in Germany. Bavarians have often emphasized a separate national identity and considered themselves as "Bavarians" first, "Germans" second. There is still an opposition party that runs on that platform. Bavaria shares a border with Catholic Austria and has had political and cultural affinity with the Austrians as well. Relegious discrimination has always been an issue in the past from the Protestant north which has further enhanced the Bavarian sense of 'separateness'.

Its created a kind of a country within a country much like Barca in Catalonia and gets fanatical support from Bavarians as a result. That's 12 and a half million by the way. Yes there are other football teams in Bavaria as well but everyone supports Bayern or has them as their second team because of the Bavarian identity. Thats a lot of commercial opportunities right there!

It was only a few generations ago they were defeated by the Prussians. They soon after joined the German Federation but the rivalry still remains.
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,006
29,551
We're not a big club either on that rationale and are a lot closer to Everton in terms of size than Arsenal.
I disagree and agreeo_O

I don't think we are part of the cartel but I don't agree that we closer to Everton than Arsenal.

We are in limbo between the two but we are much well known around the world than Everton, thanks to our good performances in the league and the one season in the CL really helped. Not to mention players like Bale, Modric and etc.

Interestingly here is the amount of money that would be given out if was in relation to clubs watched
PL-TV-13-14-cash-theoretical-on-viewers.jpg

Whilst we aren't close to Arsenal we are closer to them in terms of audience than Everton
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
I disagree and agreeo_O

I don't think we are part of the cartel but I don't agree that we closer to Everton than Arsenal.

We are in limbo between the two but we are much well known around the world than Everton, thanks to our good performances in the league and the one season in the CL really helped. Not to mention players like Bale, Modric and etc.

Interestingly here is the amount of money that would be given out if was in relation to clubs watched
PL-TV-13-14-cash-theoretical-on-viewers.jpg

Whilst we aren't close to Arsenal we are closer to them in terms of audience than Everton

We had more game shown that year than Everton live. We had 24 games shown Everton had 16.

Stoke%2BCity%2BTV%2B2014.jpg


This was probably because we had just spent over £100m on new players and were expected to do well. We both averaged 1m people watching each game.
 
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michaelden

Knight of the Fat Fanny
Aug 13, 2004
26,386
21,685
Disagree.

We're clearly better supported than those two (look at key metrics like Twitter/Facebook followers for example) plus we are in London. Agree on stadium

I hardly think fb/twitter are useful metrics
 

Jimbo78

Active Member
Jul 28, 2014
474
712
Sad that this is what us fans are talking about. Unfortunately as we all know in the premier league era Money = Success.

The only chance we have to be real contenders over a sustained period of time is to some how generate more money into the club commerically. We are the 6th richest club and that is probably where we will finish. Feels a bit hollow to me. Thats why the cups are so important to our club and any one who dismisses them are so wrong. The game is all about glory!
 
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