Dembele is better as a holding midfielder

[DaSpurs]

Thing is though at the time of purchase Dembele was taking the league by storm. It's now clear that was because at Fulham no teams sat back and he had the freedom to play in the same way as he did against Pool, and has done numerous times against other top sides. It's again easy to say in hindsight, but the fact is he was never tested at a club who would have to break down deep defensive sides which is where he struggles.

But why couldn't we see that though? Why were we lured in for that? Why did we not note his lack of passing creativity and production in the final third (even as a No 10 for Fulham he wasn't particularly prolific)? How were we suckered for this, when some of these clues were so clear even on paper?

While it's convenient that he's turned into a decent defensive mid, he was never the No 8 replacement we needed. We burned the entirety of the Modric proceeds on Dembele and Paulinho, and I think anyone would struggle to build a case suggesting that we spent those funds wisely. Were it not for a bit of luck in a youth academy product pushing through last term, I think we'd still be struggling for supply for the forward line from deep midfield and consequently feeling the effects of these weird midfield replacement choices.

 

[Trix]

But why couldn't we see that though? Why were we lured in for that? Why did we not note his lack of passing creativity and production in the final third (even as a No 10 for Fulham he wasn't particularly prolific)? How were we suckered for this, when some of these clues were so clear even on paper?

While it's convenient that he's turned into a decent defensive mid, he was never the No 8 replacement we needed. We burned the entirety of the Modric proceeds on Dembele and Paulinho, and I think anyone would struggle to build a case suggesting that we spent those funds wisely. Were it not for a bit of luck in a youth academy product pushing through last term, I think we'd still be struggling for supply for the forward line from deep midfield and consequently feeling the effects of these weird midfield replacement choices.

Probably the same reason Fergie couldn't see it, because he tried to get him for United but was too late, because strange asvit sounds we moved so quickly.

 

[Trix]

Probably the same reason Fergie couldn't see it, because he tried to get him for United but was too late, because strange asvit sounds we moved so quickly.

Oh and at the time we bought him he had been playing for ages as a deep CM.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

But why couldn't we see that though? Why were we lured in for that? Why did we not note his lack of passing creativity and production in the final third (even as a No 10 for Fulham he wasn't particularly prolific)? How were we suckered for this, when some of these clues were so clear even on paper?

While it's convenient that he's turned into a decent defensive mid, he was never the No 8 replacement we needed. We burned the entirety of the Modric proceeds on Dembele and Paulinho, and I think anyone would struggle to build a case suggesting that we spent those funds wisely. Were it not for a bit of luck in a youth academy product pushing through last term, I think we'd still be struggling for supply for the forward line from deep midfield and consequently feeling the effects of these weird midfield replacement choices.

I guess the answer is we thought he had potential to develop those facets to his game more than he ultimately has done.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

Pfft if you had played any of the last 5 football managers you would know this already! He always had ridiculously high strength/tackling/marking stats and awful creativity.

 

[heelspurs]

Oh and at the time we bought him he had been playing for ages as a deep CM.

Actually it was a 442 (4411) at fulham was it not? dempsey and zamora up top, duff, mousa, murphy, and the costa rican bloke on the left of midfield. Murphy did handle a significant amount of the deep playmaking responsibility.

 

[Trix]

Th

Actually it was a 442 (4411) at fulham was it not? dempsey and zamora up top, duff, mousa, murphy, and the costa rican bloke on the left of midfield. Murphy did handle a significant amount of the deep playmaking responsibility.

The formation is IMO not the point, its where he operated positionally. I think players nowadays are pidgeon holed far too much and although as you say Murphy was the player "doing the play making" Dembele still operated primarily from a deeper position than a regular CM. His job was to break up the attacking play and drive forward which he did extremely effectively.

 

[ClintEastwould]

Actually it was a 442 (4411) at fulham was it not? dempsey and zamora up top, duff, mousa, murphy, and the costa rican bloke on the left of midfield. Murphy did handle a significant amount of the deep playmaking responsibility.

Decent team that. Shame they went down TBH

 

[Dharmabum]

Actually it was a 442 (4411) at fulham was it not? dempsey and zamora up top, ff, moduusa, murphy, and the costa rican bloke on the left of midfield. Murphy did handle a significant amount of the deep playmaking responsibility.

With all those 3 on the left of midfield that team looks a bit unbalanced

 

[thebenjamin]

Thing is though at the time of purchase Dembele was taking the league by storm. It's now clear that was because at Fulham no teams sat back and he had the freedom to play in the same way as he did against Pool, and has done numerous times against other top sides. It's again easy to say in hindsight, but the fact is he was never tested at a club who would have to break down deep defensive sides which is where he struggles.

He wasn't really taking it by storm. He was doing what he's done for us many times - win the ball, glide past a few players and then lay it off square. He's always been very good at doing that, it's just he doesn't really have a football brain as such so when he has time on the ball and the onus is on him to create something he doesn't really have much in his locker. When a game is very tight and it's about recovering / keeping the ball under pressure in tight spaces, he's great.

 

[heelspurs]

With all those 3 on the left of midfield that team looks a bit unbalanced

Very unbalanced. Good catch by you. Also, if you would like to nitpick grammar please do it in the proper arena sir. I believe that thread is called "what our opponents' fans are saying". Much appreciated.

Th

The formation is IMO not the point, its where he operated positionally. I think players nowadays are pidgeon holed far too much and although as you say Murphy was the player "doing the play making" Dembele still operated primarily from a deeper position than a regular CM. His job was to break up the attacking play and drive forward which he did extremely effectively.

For the most part I agree. Indeed formation matters little and I don't get caught up on it. Dynamic positioning is more accurate. But I stated it to show that old ass Murphy was definitely the base of their formation and Mousa advanced from him. But I am in total agreement with you that he played deeper than a typical CM as Demps played very deep further pushing Dembele back.

 

[DaSpurs]

Probably the same reason Fergie couldn't see it, because he tried to get him for United but was too late, because strange asvit sounds we moved so quickly.

Oh and at the time we bought him he had been playing for ages as a deep CM.

Oh I'm fully aware that he had been playing as a deep CM substantially by the point of our purchase, but that's exactly the point: we had all that evidence and still made the strange decision. The point about him playing as a No 10 is simply to point out that even in the higher positions he was never prolific and never creative. He was never a pass threader, and clearly preferred to dribble forward from deep rather than be a disperser, so why did AVB choose him for his possession-based style? He clearly never possessed a fraction of the passing ability we had just sold off, so why a battling dribbler?

It was weird, just a weird decision. And then we followed that up by going for the deepest lying striker in the world in Paulinho? Just head-shaking stuff, Trix ol' boy, and as such I'm still tossing myself over that we've overhauled the entire transfer decision makers.

I guess the answer is we thought he had potential to develop those facets to his game more than he ultimately has done.

Indeed, that may be the only remaining logical conclusion. Was a big hopeful though nonetheless, especially given the contrast between AVB's style and Dembele's playing style in his Fulham days.

 

[arunspurs]

Dembele has
i) 118 appearance for Spurs in 3 years
ii) 62 appearance for Belgium in total

We are still discussing whats his best position is !!!

IMO, He is jack of all trades with his great talent, but a master at none. This to me will always make him a squad player. He has neither improved nor dropped his levels at Spurs. He is not ambitious nor he is a trier. It is no surprise that Alli & Mason has already ahead of him in pecking order.

Having said that, if we were so shitty in possession in a game, he will be first player I would turn to in our squad to gain control. I have seen enough of Dembele to know that he will do that but nothing more - no eagerness to take a shot on target nor willingness to run beyond the defense and make space for others. Often, I see him brilliantly skip past 3 players only play a back pass to CB or full backs.

A brilliantly wasted player...

 

[DiamondLites]

Trouble is, in a CM 2 he needs someone alongside him who can effectively cover him to allow him to drive forward, which is the strongest aspect of his game. And chances are a player that would do this is not going be particularly good at moving the ball quickly or positively enough to make that pairing work. Him and Dier for example as pairing would just completely slow our game down, but someone like Mason or Alli isn't defensively astute enough to give Moose the licence to make drives forward. He's a real conundrum of a player, especially in our set up, but one who on his day utterly dominates midfields

When everyone is fit, it'll be interesting to see who is Poch's go to CM pairing

 

[npearl4spurs]

Trouble is, in a CM 2 he needs someone alongside him who can effectively cover him to allow him to drive forward, which is the strongest aspect of his game. And chances are a player that would do this is not going be particularly good at moving the ball quickly or positively enough to make that pairing work. Him and Dier for example as pairing would just completely slow our game down, but someone like Mason or Alli isn't defensively astute enough to give Moose the licence to make drives forward. He's a real conundrum of a player, especially in our set up, but one who on his day utterly dominates midfields

When everyone is fit, it'll be interesting to see who is Poch's go to CM pairing

Ryan Mason and Eric Dier will be the CM pairing when everyone is fit. It is our best pairing.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Well that theory lasted all of one game.

 

[Lufti]

Agreed he is shit at tackling...........should be barred from WHL as a minimum punishment.............strung up by his balls and tarred and feathered........



Brought in alongside Alli, Dembele was superb against Liverpool. No player made more tackles in the match and no player won possession more often. More impressive still was his ball retention. Look at the total number of times the game’s midfielders lost possession of the ball (using Opta data):

• 
  
  
  • James Milner – 25
  • Philippe Coutinho – 23
  • Adam Lallana – 23
  • Clinton N’Jie – 23
  • Christian Eriksen – 21
  • Dele Alli – 20
  • Erik Lamela – 17
  • Emre Can – 17
  • Lucas Leiva – 15
  • Moussa Dembele – 8

As I said, same old Dembele. He's not a consistent performer, it's actually laughable how he does this every year; puts in a good game or a handful of them and then suddenly he's the best thing since sliced bread, only to go back to mediocrity soon after. But you lot fall for it every time, hook, line and sinker. I wouldn't be surprised if he was suddenly MOTM again in a few games time, but that's not good enough, I'd rather have Mason putting in consistent 7/10 performances than lots of 5/10s with a couple of 9/10s from Dembele.

 

[Krafty]

The last two games provide a perfect case study for Dembele, and I don't mean that in a hyper critical way...

Against Liverpool he is given the main defensive central midfield role, with an energetic, forward thinking and determined player alongside him (Alli). Moussa raises his game to that of those around him, is tenancious, wins the ball back on numerous occasions, and quickly hands possession to those with better passing and creativity. Dembele's positioning is also better as he naturally moves up the pitch to stay in touch with others, who are looking to get forward.

Against Anderlecht he is given the secondary role in central midfield - not the main man responsible for defensive duties, nor the main man responsible for creativity and driving forward. He was too deep but didn't offer defensive solidity, was slow on the ball, slow with his passing (as was a lot of the team), didn't really do much of note going back or forward, and often his positioning off the ball was about three yards from the man in possession.


Ultimate fair weather player - good, potentially great when we play well, poor, potentially rotten when we aren't. For a young player coming up the ranks or squad/utility player that's fine, not for a £15million player approaching 30.

 

[thinktank]

I just don't like the way Moussa plays the game.

The guy has loads of talent, is super strong and can have MoM performances at times and be imperious.

But I still find his game grates with how I want to see us play and he still doesn't fit in for me.

Good squad player for certain situations but he wouldn't be happy with that.

Extremely frustrating as he could be consistently amazing if he wanted to be.

He's a bit baffling tbh.

 

[Mullers]

But why couldn't we see that though? Why were we lured in for that? Why did we not note his lack of passing creativity and production in the final third (even as a No 10 for Fulham he wasn't particularly prolific)? How were we suckered for this, when some of these clues were so clear even on paper?

While it's convenient that he's turned into a decent defensive mid, he was never the No 8 replacement we needed. We burned the entirety of the Modric proceeds on Dembele and Paulinho, and I think anyone would struggle to build a case suggesting that we spent those funds wisely. Were it not for a bit of luck in a youth academy product pushing through last term, I think we'd still be struggling for supply for the forward line from deep midfield and consequently feeling the effects of these weird midfield replacement choices.

We made a bid for him in January 2011.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-million-move-for-striker-Moussa-Dembele.html

At that time there wasn't a proper scouting network compared to what we have now, I think AVB just went along with what the other members of the committee wanted because he felt that he was going to get Moutinho.