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Der Spiegel Football Leaks revelations

McArchibald

Well-Known Member
Jun 6, 2010
1,280
5,579
Normally, English clubs would be mad to leave the best league on the planet. But the EPL's biggest asset - its extreme competitiveness - may be one of the main forces bringing this Super League into being.

I can't see the selected clubs NOT going ahead with this scheme. It would eliminate the biggest risk facing them: the risk of losing out on the CL millions in case of a poor domestic season.
In the days of the Sky-Top 4 it was all Hunky Dory. Arsena, Chelsea, Man U and Liverpool fought for the trophy's amongst themselves and in the end they all qualified for the CL. But since then, with the arrival of Man City and ourselves, they've all spent several seasons outside the CL, and have seen the havoc that creates in their budgets and plans. The top 4 is now a top 6 with Everton pushing hard to make it a top 7.

Especially to American owners like Kroenke and the Glazers this is anathema to the way to run a sports franchise. This Super League would be much more their thing. An all-powerful body to govern the league, huge, steady income flows, a closed shop, no risks.
Each club has its own section of the market all to itself. No more worries about competitors getting too close for comfort.

In this scheme, Chelsea and Arsenal get to divide London and the South of England between themselves. And there's no doubt who the biggest losers will be: good old Tottenham Hotspur. Just when we have invested massively in a new stadium and are becoming a part of the English elite, they are literally pulling the rug out from under our feet in a blatant effort to shake us off their tail and get rid of a competitor who's become too much of a nuisance.
This cannot happen. Since there is seemingly no way for us to become involved, all stops must be pulled out to stifle this unholy scheme at birth. The consequences of failure would be catastrophic...
 

Seafordian Spurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
2,157
4,141
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...ue-are-selling-the-soul-of-the-game-b0s9sd6pq

great piece by David Walsh, with a big THFC/Poch slant to it

In their search for quick riches, Premier League clubs are betraying their friends

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There is a story from Mauricio Pochettino’s 2017 book, Brave New World, that is hard to forget. Young Poch is 13 years of age, one of 3,540 people living in Murphy, a town in Argentina. His potential has been noted and once or twice a week he takes a bus to Rosario, 100 miles distant, to train with Central, a team in Argentina’s Primera Division.

He hates the three-hour journey but dreams are dreams and it’s a trade-off. One Monday evening there is a trial for young players at Villa Canas, a town 31 miles from Murphy. Not any old trial but one arranged by a local coach for the benefit of Marcelo Bielsa and Jorge Griffa, well-known coaches at mighty Newell’s Old Boys, Central’s big rivals in Rosario. Pochettino was invited to Villa Canas but even at 13, the boy had a mind of his own. He had had a long day at school that Monday and the tiredness from two weekend matches was still in his legs. He told his dad he did not have much enthusiasm for the drive to Villa Canas. His dad said that was fine.

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On the outside looking in: Mauricio Pochettino’s Tottenham are not included in the new Super League planFACUNDO ARRIZABALAGA
The trial ended shortly before 10pm. Bielsa and Griffa sat down to eat with the local coach. Having assimilated the evidence of the evening’s trial, the visitors from Rosario asked the local man if there was any boy who had not played that evening but who might be one for the future. “There is one lad from Murphy, a kid called Pochettino, who is good.”

“Murphy,” they thought. “That’s not that far away.” It was after 11pm when they left Villa Canas, well past midnight when they got to a service station on the edge of Murphy and almost 1am when they knocked on the door of the Pochettino home. Mothers sleep lightly, so it was Amalia Pochettino who answered. They explained who they were. She refused to allow them in, returning instead to the bedroom, where she told her husband about the strangers.

“What, Bielsa and Griffa? I know who they are.” A minute later the Pochettinos sat with the coaches and heard what they had been told about young Mauricio. It made them proud. Fifteen minutes into the conversation, the coaches asked if they could see the boy. They would not wake him, just observe him while he slept. Inside his bedroom, the four adults gazed at the sleeping beauty.
“Would it be possible to pull back the covers,” asked Griffa, “so I can see his legs.” Amalia rolled back the covers. “He looks like a footballer,” one of them said. “Look at those legs.”

The boy became a man. Played for Newell’s Old Boys and Jorge Griffa became his football father. He spent most of his time playing at Espanyol in Barcelona and played 20 times for Argentina. It is, however, as a manager that he has built his reputation. Over the past four years his work with
Tottenham Hotspur has positioned him in the front line of the world’s best football coaches.
Bielsa and Griffa’s late-night visit to his home in 1985 struck a chord with Pochettino. For in them he saw reflections of his young self. Their passion was his passion; their obsession his obsession. He cried when his hero Diego Maradona spoke after his testimonial game at Boca’s stadium in 2001. “I’ve made mistakes,” said Diego. “I’ve paid for them. But my love for the ball is still pure.” So, too, it has always been for Pochettino.

With the cost of their new stadium, Tottenham do not have the hundreds of millions their rivals spend so freely. His job is to convince some of the best young players in Europe that there is more to football than the monthly transfer that swells their bank account. Convincing them of this is not as straightforward as getting them to press the opposition but, so far, Pochettino is winning. In the Premier League narrative, Tottenham have been one of the inspiring storylines.

So, put yourself inside the head of Tottenham’s manager travelling to the Black Country for yesterday’s match against Wolverhampton Wanderers. Sitting on the coach he searches for Der Spiegel’s English website and begins to read their long article about Europe’s biggest clubs forming an exclusive Super League. It would begin with seven clubs, the founding fathers: Manchester United and Arsenal, Real Madrid and Barcelona, Juventus and AC Milan, Bayern Munich. An American, Charlie Stillitano, is the entrepreneur driving the talks. His numbers had turned people’s heads, drawn them to clandestine meetings and got them asking big questions of their legal advisers. What can we do here? Would it be possible to just walk away from the Champions League? And domestic leagues? Could we exit La Liga, Serie A, the Premier League?

It was more than a year ago that he had seen a story in The Sun about one of those secret “European Super League” meetings in London. He wasn’t sure whether to believe it. But here in Der Spiegel’s well-sourced story, they reproduce a line from an email written by an adviser to Manchester City’s Abu Dhabi owners to the club’s chief executive, Ferran Soriano, concerning that story in The Sun. “We need to be very careful moving forward and avoid at all costs the perception of a cartel,” said the adviser. Soriano replied by saying that the clubs would have to find a more private venue for future meetings.

So it was true. These guys have been meeting, planning, deciding the best way forward. The original seven became 11. The two English conspirators were joined by Liverpool, Manchester City and Chelsea. Stillitano was telling them to forget the old Champions League model, with its paltry tens of millions of payments. He was talking of annual revenues of £440m-plus to clubs in the Super League and guaranteed inclusion for the first 20 years.

Of course 11 clubs would not be enough, so Stillitano and his cohorts were going to include Borussia Dortmund, Inter Milan, Roma, Marseilles and Atletico Madrid. These would be “guests,” not part of the cartel. There was talk of Schalke 04 and getting an 18th club from Holland, Russia, Portugal or Turkey.

And as Pochettino reads through to the last sentence of this story, your heart sinks as your anger rises. So much planning for this league, so many “secret meetings” and in this detailed report about what has been going on, there are two words never uttered. Tottenham Hotspur. The big six has been reduced to the big five, with the complicity of the big five. You think of the evening at the Etihad, January 2017. Son Heung-min’s 73rd-minute goal got you a 2-2 draw, probably more than you deserved but satisfying all the same. Afterwards Pep Guardiola came smilingly towards you and said: “Now, tell me all about Monaco.” You had played Monaco in pool matches and now Manchester City had them in the next round. Naturally you wanted to help because even though you are Premier League rivals, there is an affinity with the clubs in your league.

You think about Soriano wanting “a more private venue” for meetings to which your club will not be invited, you think about the people planning for this Super League and you feel betrayed. And you know that every manager and every chief executive of every Premier League club outside the conspirators will feel betrayed. The same for the excluded in Serie A, La Liga and the Bundesliga. In their thirst for ever more riches, the big money men sell the soul of the game. And you think of the little boy you were in Murphy, on the bus journey to Rosario that had so many stops you often likened it to a postman doing his rounds. It was hard back then but at least you could love the game.

How ‘Super League’ might look

Real Madrid are the key players in plans for a 16-team European Super League in 2021, according to a report from the German magazine Der Spiegel based on leaked documents. It claims:
■ Seven of the 11 ‘founders’ of the proposed league went behind Uefa’s back to discuss it: Real, Barcelona, Man United, Arsenal, Juventus, AC Milan and Bayern Munich
■ The other founders would be Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Paris Saint-Germain. The 11 founders could not be relegated
■ Another five teams would have ‘guest’ status for the opening season of the competition: Atletico Madrid, Inter Milan, Roma, Borussia Dortmund and Marseilles
■ Two more teams could join later: possibly Schalke from the Bundesliga plus a side from Portugal, Holland, Russia or Turkey. Bayern Munich said it was ‘unaware of recent plans for a so-called Super League’ and had not ‘taken part in negotiations relating to such plans’. The other clubs named above have not responded

An emotive piece of sports journalism. I'll give it that.
 

Seafordian Spurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
2,157
4,141
Normally, English clubs would be mad to leave the best league on the planet. But the EPL's biggest asset - its extreme competitiveness - may be one of the main forces bringing this Super League into being.

I can't see the selected clubs NOT going ahead with this scheme. It would eliminate the biggest risk facing them: the risk of losing out on the CL millions in case of a poor domestic season.
In the days of the Sky-Top 4 it was all Hunky Dory. Arsena, Chelsea, Man U and Liverpool fought for the trophy's amongst themselves and in the end they all qualified for the CL. But since then, with the arrival of Man City and ourselves, they've all spent several seasons outside the CL, and have seen the havoc that creates in their budgets and plans. The top 4 is now a top 6 with Everton pushing hard to make it a top 7.

Especially to American owners like Kroenke and the Glazers this is anathema to the way to run a sports franchise. This Super League would be much more their thing. An all-powerful body to govern the league, huge, steady income flows, a closed shop, no risks.
Each club has its own section of the market all to itself. No more worries about competitors getting too close for comfort.

In this scheme, Chelsea and Arsenal get to divide London and the South of England between themselves. And there's no doubt who the biggest losers will be: good old Tottenham Hotspur. Just when we have invested massively in a new stadium and are becoming a part of the English elite, they are literally pulling the rug out from under our feet in a blatant effort to shake us off their tail and get rid of a competitor who's become too much of a nuisance.
This cannot happen. Since there is seemingly no way for us to become involved, all stops must be pulled out to stifle this unholy scheme at birth. The consequences of failure would be catastrophic...

I agree it would be foolish to think it won't happen and to dismiss it. The leaks are about testing the water. Anyone who thinks it won't happen 'because: the fans' is deluded. The way we access football and the stupid, continent levelling money involved theses days has changed things irrevocably.....of course the bubble could pop..
 

buckley

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2012
2,595
6,073
We as supporters could make this thing fail if all fans from the countries involved did not sign up to give T.V. companies any subscriptions I myself swear on my oath even if we are involved these back stabbing traitors would get none of my cash.Without T.v.cash where would there billions of £££££££££ come from the greedy snakes deserve to fail dismally also I would insist they could not compete in rival league and must leave the premiership if they want the new competition and then I would add there can be no returning if you go you are out kaput gone in fact a dead parrot
 

DCSPUR

Well-Known Member
Apr 15, 2005
3,918
5,415
The best players would all want to play in this league... our best players would want to play in this league, and our manager.
Amazing to think some people want this to happen.

A few interesting bits in this piece...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...pose-premier-league-breakaway-could-threaten/

honestly think people are too shit scared about this:
Germany: 100% guarantee the rest of the clubs would kick Bayern out and happily move on without them
France: Same with PSG
England - I'd love a league without money doped city and chelsea

How many players could this "super" league employ?
Plenty left for a real footballing competition.
bollocks to them all
 

DCSPUR

Well-Known Member
Apr 15, 2005
3,918
5,415
be honest.....are you more annoyed about the whole concept of closed cartel breakaway, or the fact that we will not be one of the "founding members"?

I'd say i'm about 50/50 at the moment.

BTW - i think this is almost certainly a replacement for the CL rather than the PL
in no shape or form would i want us to leave the PL structure for this pathetic tournament.
IF we did, I think Keith Burkinshaw's famous line would finally be true.
 

Colonel_Klinck

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2004
12,637
23,217
If you look on Red Cafe. RAWK, BlueMoon, Arsenal Mania 90% of fans think its a shit idea and lots giving it the "I'm finished with footy if this happens" line. I really think those Prem teams would struggle to convince their fans. The Prem is the best league in the world and a money maker. I'm not worried about this atm.
 

RichieS

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2004
11,916
16,436
I don't see the doomsday potential here and they can all fuck off as far as I'm concerned.

ENIC have seen this coming a mile off and have actually put us in a position where we're the PL club most able to withstand a drastic fall in TV revenue, i.e. the new stadium allows us to maximise match day income, we've developed a world class academy which regularly produces PL level players and we don't rely on the TV money to pay our players wages like some (*cough* West Ham *cough*).
 
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Seafordian Spurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
2,157
4,141
I don't see the doomsday potential here and they can all fuck off as far as I'm concerned.

ENIC have seen this coming a mile off and have actually put us in a position where we're the PL club most able to withstand a drastic fall in TV revenue, i.e. the new stadium allows us to maximise match day revenue, we've developed a world class academy which regularly produces PL level players and we don't rely on the TV money to pay our players wages like some (*cough* West Ham *cough*).

Yes, you'd like to think Enic were aware of things. NFL stuff etc.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
After the UK yes, but considering the PL gets 6 Billion US dollars domestically for the rights you find that the whole international market is worth much less than the domestic one.

There's not much difference now between domestic and international.
 

SugarRay

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2011
7,984
11,110
The tabloids are working overtime it seems to make out this is some kind of likely story.

Even if this does take place, so what? These clubs don’t own football. They’ll just take the shitty section of their support and go and play a glorified friendly tournament for a certain type of ‘sportsfan’ for tv in other countries.
I’d expect sanctions from national FA’s and these clubs to actually come crawling back and potentially lose players.

It’ll never get off the ground. The worst thing to come from it imo will be UEFA changing the champions league even further in order to appease these clubs.

If I’m massively wrong and we do see any European super league become a reality I will refuse to acknowledge it, even if we are involved. I’ll give up my season ticket and go watch more non-league stuff.
 

Gareth88

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2017
4,592
6,727
That'll be the final push for me to knock following football on the head, i can stop reading crap opinions on the internet and i can finally start to do things that i actually enjoy, whatever that is, puppetry or woodwork or something. In a way i hope it happens.

You mean pulling your hair out over matches and other supporters opinions is not your ideal weekend??
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
41,363
74,893
Aren't cartels illegal? If this were to come about wouldn't it come under unfair competition as the rules for one business (madrid) would be different to those invited that could be relegated.
 

Sevens

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2014
4,583
6,947
If you look on Red Cafe. RAWK, BlueMoon, Arsenal Mania 90% of fans think its a shit idea and lots giving it the "I'm finished with footy if this happens" line. I really think those Prem teams would struggle to convince their fans. The Prem is the best league in the world and a money maker. I'm not worried about this atm.

Unfortunately the powers that be don't give a toss about local fans.
 

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
41,883
71,188
the product (PL) doesn't work without the fans in the stadium....no atmosphere translates poorly to TV
Yes but that doesnt matter if the tv deal is big enough. Its all about the money. Owners want more money. They couldnt give a fuck about the supporters, the club or the game. In their eyes, the quick buck >>>>> the good of the game.
 
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