Didier Zokora tonight

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Apart from the scoring bit that's almost exactly how I'd describe Zokora. I'm sorry but if it's a contest over who has the better touch then JJ would win by a country mile.

When JJ doesn't play we miss him massively. He doesn't just run around alot. He frequently runs around more than anyone on the pitch which is invaluable. Alot of the time he has to do extra running to make up for Zokora and Thudd's ineptitude.

If we actually got someone decent to play behind him then he could concentrate a bit more on getting forwards where he's at his best.
Extra running to make up for Zok? Zoks main attribute is his running. DZ and JJ's problems are simple: Headless chickens. Which points at bad coaching. They do not have defined roles. Our midfielders are capable, but the chaotic way in which they play is causing us points.
 

walworthyid

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Apart from the scoring bit that's almost exactly how I'd describe Zokora. I'm sorry but if it's a contest over who has the better touch then JJ would win by a country mile.

When JJ doesn't play we miss him massively. He doesn't just run around alot. He frequently runs around more than anyone on the pitch which is invaluable. Alot of the time he has to do extra running to make up for Zokora and Thudd's ineptitude.

If we actually got someone decent to play behind him then he could concentrate a bit more on getting forwards where he's at his best.
At his best doing what exactly? Listen, I agree with you to a certain extent but you could have it either way. Neither of them are good enough imo. JJ is not able to pass the ball when he is running with any accuracy, he has very little skill and doesn't have Zokora's ability to make space for himself and so playing further forward would only beneft us in the sense that he would have more scoring chances. It wouldn't make us play any better, we wouldn't retain the ball any better, we wouldn't create any more chances.

As long as Huddlecrap doesn't play I will be happy.
 

talkshowhost86

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How is he not among the world's best professional footabllers?

I have played with some very good players, ex-pros, ex-Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea yts and youth players. Players who have played with Ledley, John Terry etc and they mostly work for a living because they were not good enough. So how good must you be to have played in a world cup and in a prem team that finished 5th? Very bloody good is the answer.

Hve you played football at any decent level?

The players in the championship and below are not as good as the players in the prem, it may seem like you can just get any player and he could play in central midfield and pass the ball to somebody wearing the same colour shirt as him and make tackles etc but it is just not that easy.

The manager picks him, the national team coach picks him as did the managers at his previous clubs, how bad can he be?
I havn't played football at any decent level but that doesn't change my opinion of Zokora and it certainly doesn't make him anywhere near one of the world's best professional footballers. Maybe he isn't as bad as I've suggested in the past but to say he's one of the best is laughable.

My main issue with Zokora is his lack of control. I don't need to have played football at any level to know that a top professional shouldn't have to have 4 touches to control the ball. He may be quick physically but it takes him far too long to decide what he's going to do (a failing of all our midfielders really). His positional sense is always quite poor. Yes he makes good charges back to tackle every now and again but a good defensive midfielder (like Carrick) would have been in the right place in the first place. It's no surprise to me that we've conceded more long range goals since Carrick left because without his brilliant sense of positioning opposition teams have far more time to get their shots in.
 

walworthyid

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Extra running to make up for Zok? Zoks main attribute is his running. DZ and JJ's problems are simple: Headless chickens. Which points at bad coaching. They do not have defined roles. Our midfielders are capable, but the chaotic way in which they play is causing us points.
How does it point to bad coaching? You can't coach players to completely alter the attributes of their games. Jenas and dd are never, EVER, going to be creative, just like Huddlestone is never going to run the most in our team.
 

walworthyid

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I havn't played football at any decent level but that doesn't change my opinion of Zokora and it certainly doesn't make him anywhere near one of the world's best professional footballers. Maybe he isn't as bad as I've suggested in the past but to say he's one of the best is laughable.

My main issue with Zokora is his lack of control. I don't need to have played football at any level to know that a top professional shouldn't have to have 4 touches to control the ball. He may be quick physically but it takes him far too long to decide what he's going to do (a failing of all our midfielders really). His positional sense is always quite poor. Yes he makes good charges back to tackle every now and again but a good defensive midfielder (like Carrick) would have been in the right place in the first place. It's no surprise to me that we've conceded more long range goals since Carrick left because without his brilliant sense of positioning opposition teams have far more time to get their shots in.
He is not Carrick! Carrick is gone.

If didi plays for a top team in england and england is one the top 4 leagues in the world and there are thousands and thousands of PROFESSIONAL players playing in lesser teams and leagues does that not make zokora one of the best PROFESIONAL players in the world?
 

talkshowhost86

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He is not Carrick! Carrick is gone.

If didi plays for a top team in england and england is one the top 4 leagues in the world and there are thousands and thousands of PROFESSIONAL players playing in lesser teams and leagues does that not make zokora one of the best PROFESIONAL players in the world?
Depends by what you mean as one of the best. Top 5000? Yeah I'll give him that.

But by your reckoning that makes Paul Stalteri one of the best professional players in the world. If just being in a top team qualifies you for that then so is Tainio, Malbranque etc.
 

walworthyid

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Depends by what you mean as one of the best. Top 5000? Yeah I'll give him that.

But by your reckoning that makes Paul Stalteri one of the best professional players in the world. If just being in a top team qualifies you for that then so is Tainio, Malbranque etc.
Well clearly he isn't Kaka or Ronaldinho but I don't think you quite understand how good these players really are.
 

talkshowhost86

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Well clearly he isn't Kaka or Ronaldinho but I don't think you quite understand how good these players really are.
Of course I do. I'm not saying that anyone can step in and do a better job. In comparison to all the midfielders at the top four clubs however Zokora doesn't even come close. Therein lies the problem.
 

walworthyid

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Of course I do. I'm not saying that anyone can step in and do a better job. In comparison to all the midfielders at the top four clubs however Zokora doesn't even come close. Therein lies the problem.
I wouldn't go that far but yes, we have inferior players in the middle compared to the top 4. In fact, the only players that we have that the top 4 would want would be The King, Keano, Defoe, Bale, Berbo, Chimbo(well Chelsea wanted him),Kaboul and Lennon. You could probably add Dawson(who is better than some of the players at those clubs like Senderos, Bhoularouz?) and Bent( who would be better if he played and was given the right service).
 
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I havn't played football at any decent level but that doesn't change my opinion of Zokora and it certainly doesn't make him anywhere near one of the world's best professional footballers. Maybe he isn't as bad as I've suggested in the past but to say he's one of the best is laughable.

My main issue with Zokora is his lack of control. I don't need to have played football at any level to know that a top professional shouldn't have to have 4 touches to control the ball. He may be quick physically but it takes him far too long to decide what he's going to do (a failing of all our midfielders really). His positional sense is always quite poor. Yes he makes good charges back to tackle every now and again but a good defensive midfielder (like Carrick) would have been in the right place in the first place. It's no surprise to me that we've conceded more long range goals since Carrick left because without his brilliant sense of positioning opposition teams have far more time to get their shots in.

You mean his poor close control like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XACY0YRebo

It is this kind of rubbish that irks some of us who understand the game a little better.

When you say lack of control it is just utter fucking piffle. He has amongst the best close control in our side. he is actually better under pressure than any of midfielders. And probably better at escaping a man up him than Carrick was. I don't remember often seeing Carrick drop a shoulder and leave his marker. The easiest way to stop carrick playing was get up him and many teams did. The same for Huddlestone. Thankfully zokora is not so ruffled and it is one area of his game that he clearly excells.

It's really hard to spray it out wide when your wide players keep drifting in because they are actually CM's out of position. And our strikers movement off the ball often consists of making a run behind the defence and expecting a miracle ball. if the actually dropped and moved into space it would give the midfielders an outlet more often. You watch in a game how many times Keane and Berbatov are standing on the edge of the penalty area with spitting distance of each other static.

You say carrick would have always been in the right place but carrick played in a more defensive spurs side and Jol said so himself when describing our tactics last season.
 

Stoof

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Rasiak wasn't as bad as people made out either. He was a better footballer than Mido.

TSH
Nearly as ridiculous as you claiming his control is poor.
 
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Rasiak wasn't as bad as people made out either. He was a better footballer than Mido.

TSH
Nearly as ridiculous as you claiming his control is poor.
Raisak was the top scorer in the championship for a while after leaving Spurs. He was quoted to thanking his NEW coach for helping him get back to scoring.

Poke in the eye for Hughton eh?
 

alamo

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Raisak was the top scorer in the championship for a while after leaving Spurs. He was quoted to thanking his NEW coach for helping him get back to scoring.

Poke in the eye for Hughton eh?
Jesus H Christ that just had to be coming didn't it. Maybe Rasiak can attribute his form to stepping back down to a division where he is comfortable? I'm sure it was _all_ Chrissies fault that Rasiak behaved like a complete donkey for the bare few chances he was given. Must have been. I mean I bet they spent at least an hour on the training ground together.

Not to mention "Rasiak in management arse kissing shock sensation!!!" Couldn't have been pay rise and contract renegotiation time could it?
 

alamo

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Anyway, sorry, on topic. Zoko is far from a world class footballer I'm afraid to say and never will be. I appreciate his finer attributes and when he is playing well (which whilst not exactly consistent is fairly regular) and his athleticism can be very useful in disrupting the oppositions play. Unfortunaley I have to side with Stoof and TSH. His control is terrible, his vision is narrow and his play is very limited. What he actually does he can do extremely well but unfortunately this is all focussed around the defensive aspect of his play. I wish he could come up with many assists (and god forbid even a shot on target) during a season but he just doesn't have a complete all round game.

Ultimately..... a disappointment. In my opinion
 

AW?

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You mean his poor close control like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XACY0YRebo

It is this kind of rubbish that irks some of us who understand the game a little better.

When you say lack of control it is just utter fucking piffle. He has amongst the best close control in our side. he is actually better under pressure than any of midfielders. And probably better at escaping a man up him than Carrick was. I don't remember often seeing Carrick drop a shoulder and leave his marker. The easiest way to stop carrick playing was get up him and many teams did. The same for Huddlestone. Thankfully zokora is not so ruffled and it is one area of his game that he clearly excells.
First of all, big fucking deal, he did a roulette so what? I've done a few of those in my time myself and beaten some players in the process. I'm not a brilliant player by any means.

Secondly, to say he has such good close control because he can beat a man is nonsense. He has pace, end of.

Carrick hasn't got tremendous pace, but, if you remember in his last season for us it looked like Jol had given him more encouragement to go forward and he went on some lovely runs. He pretty much skinned the whole of Arsenal in one of those games before admittedly choking with the shot at the end. Every time i see Zokora go forward on one of his runs he either loses the ball, does a terrible shot, or dives.

All Zokora can do is fucking run mate.
 

AW?

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Raisak was the top scorer in the championship for a while after leaving Spurs. He was quoted to thanking his NEW coach for helping him get back to scoring.

Poke in the eye for Hughton eh?
Oh please is this some kind of twisted joke?

Or are you a gooner or something?
 
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Jesus H Christ that just had to be coming didn't it. Maybe Rasiak can attribute his form to stepping back down to a division where he is comfortable? I'm sure it was _all_ Chrissies fault that Rasiak behaved like a complete donkey for the bare few chances he was given. Must have been. I mean I bet they spent at least an hour on the training ground together.

Not to mention "Rasiak in management arse kissing shock sensation!!!" Couldn't have been pay rise and contract renegotiation time could it?
Okay, can you find a quote of a player thanking Chris Hughton for his training? I have seen some praise for Jol and Defoe thanked Moniz recently but I can't recall a player dedicating anything to Chirs Hughton. And he has been with us for over a decade.
 
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