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Dier calls on England to adopt some of the dark arts at Euro 2016

Gilzeanking

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2005
6,093
5,019
Yeh , so Dier continues to big up the Spurs madness of the Chelski-Spurs match .

We lost a very important player in that match and proceeded to lose our remaining games after it .

Further it baffles everyone that Dier himself wasn't sent off along with Lamela...and poss Walker . The Spurs players' behaviour that day was suicidal for our club . Nothing to be proud of...something to forget and see doesn't re-occur.

The 'Fighting Spirit' everyone is so proud of saw us lay down and take it up the arse in the next two matches .

This macho man posturing about that match from so many inside the Spurs bubble.....Yuk .
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,232
57,389
Yeh , so Dier continues to big up the Spurs madness of the Chelski-Spurs match .

We lost a very important player in that match and proceeded to lose our remaining games after it .

Further it baffles everyone that Dier himself wasn't sent off along with Lamela...and poss Walker . The Spurs players' behaviour that day was suicidal for our club . Nothing to be proud of...something to forget and see doesn't re-occur.

The 'Fighting Spirit' everyone is so proud of saw us lay down and take it up the arse in the next two matches .

This macho man posturing about that match from so many inside the Spurs bubble.....Yuk .


If we'd shown an ounce of the passion we saw in the Chelsea game we wouldn't have 'taken it up the arse' as you so eloquently put it. Dier actually talks about being intelligent and streetwise anyway and doesn't advocate kicking lumps out of people. If you don't like it you can hide behind the sofa. The Chelsea game showed us up for being naïve which isn't a huge surprise with such a young team.
 
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bigspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2005
3,193
2,419
I thought that the whole Chelski debacle showed our side up massively. This immaturity then went on to ensure that our club and fans were humiliated on the last day. It ruined an otherwise fantastic season. So no Erik, maybe it's not worth doing it for England. You certainly don't want to be alerting any referees to it anyway! Grow up mate.

Saying all that, I really hope our guys can show some maturity and have a good tournament. I've got a feeling that we'll do OK.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
The sad thing is we had nothing to prove in that respect.
England might need some streetwise attitude with an intelligent edge
whatever that means
but Spurs certainly didn't and don't.
Though with Deli and Wayne around I wouldn't have thought so.
22 and learning the game needs to listen more and keep quiet.
 

absolute bobbins

Am Yisrael Chai
Feb 12, 2013
11,649
25,962
Yeh , so Dier continues to big up the Spurs madness of the Chelski-Spurs match .

We lost a very important player in that match and proceeded to lose our remaining games after it .

Further it baffles everyone that Dier himself wasn't sent off along with Lamela...and poss Walker . The Spurs players' behaviour that day was suicidal for our club . Nothing to be proud of...something to forget and see doesn't re-occur.

The 'Fighting Spirit' everyone is so proud of saw us lay down and take it up the arse in the next two matches .

This macho man posturing about that match from so many inside the Spurs bubble.....Yuk .
By all means leave the Spurs bubble then
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,232
57,389
The sad thing is we had nothing to prove in that respect.
England might need some streetwise attitude with an intelligent edge
whatever that means
but Spurs certainly didn't and don't.

Though with Deli and Wayne around I wouldn't have thought so.
22 and learning the game needs to listen more and keep quiet.


I think it's precisely what we need as opposed to losing the plot like we did at Stamford Bridge. Chelsea and Utd in particular have honed the art of pre match wind ups, surrounding Refs and intimidating opponents, officials, the media and anybody else who they fancy a pop at. We've been too meek and mild for decades but at least now our opponents will know that we have attitude in our locker. The challenge will be using it to our advantage.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
I think it's precisely what we need as opposed to losing the plot like we did at Stamford Bridge. Chelsea and Utd in particular have honed the art of pre match wind ups, surrounding Refs and intimidating opponents, officials, the media and anybody else who they fancy a pop at. We've been too meek and mild for decades but at least now our opponents will know that we have attitude in our locker. The challenge will be using it to our advantage.

You really want all that non,anti football stuff?.
We hate Chelsea precisely because of all that.
It gets in the way of the football.
We were out playing Chelsea at half time
and chucked it all away for nothing.

Spare me all that pathetic posturing please
and continue to concentrate on playing football.
What on earth does it all mean.
Committing clever fouls, behind the ref's back perhaps
It's all a nonsense and sounds more like
13 career reds Mauricio winding them up at half time at Chelsea

‘Tottenham are trying to get rid of a certain image at the moment and I think that (game against Chelsea) helped.

Well it didn't help our challenge for the league it completely threw us.
Certainly helped advertise that if opponents need to they can wind us up
and stop us doing what we really have a reputation for, and history of
playing attractive entertaining football with classy players.

we were challenging for the title and lost our heads.
This stuff is difficult to control once the genie is out of the bottle.
See Moussa Dembele.
Lets hope it doesn't affect our start to the season.
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,232
57,389
You really want all that non,anti football stuff?.
We hate Chelsea precisely because of all that.
It gets in the way of the football.
We were out playing Chelsea at half time
and chucked it all away for nothing.

Spare me all that pathetic posturing please
and continue to concentrate on playing football.
What on earth does it all mean.
Committing clever fouls, behind the ref's back perhaps
It's all a nonsense and sounds more like
13 career reds Mauricio winding them up at half time at Chelsea

‘Tottenham are trying to get rid of a certain image at the moment and I think that (game against Chelsea) helped.

Well it didn't help our challenge for the league it completely threw us.
Certainly helped advertise that if opponents need to they can wind us up
and stop us doing what we really have a reputation for, and history of
playing attractive entertaining football with classy players.

we were challenging for the title and lost our heads.
This stuff is difficult to control once the genie is out of the bottle.
See Moussa Dembele.
Lets hope it doesn't affect our start to the season.


I know what Dave Mackay would say.
 

dagraham

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2005
19,115
46,080
Didn't see much intelligence in the way we went about the Chelsea game.

In fact I'd say it was catastrophically dumb.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
I know what Dave Mackay would say.

You probably don't. From his obituary in the Guardian last year.
Eric Dier could well take Dave Mackay as his mentor. He's got a little of the jigsaw in place but lots left to work on.


Julie Welch writes: Stocky, barrel-chested and gimlet-eyed, Dave Mackay combined delicacy of touch and sublime attacking play with an air of barely restrained violence. Danny Blanchflower might have been the inspirational captain of Spurs in their greatest era but Mackay was the one whose approval was sought by the players. He was the leader who had to win at everything, a man of huge energy and almost terrifying commitment. “You’d have to go into the gym with body armour,” his team-mate Bobby Smith once commented. “He’d smash you against the wall.” Even so, nothing he did on the pitch was ever mean or unbecoming. “I was a hard player,” Mackay maintained, “but I was never dirty.

I know what he might have said about holding the Premiership record for yellow cards in a single match. 'Bloody idiots' especially when he realised the significance of throwing two crucial points away.

A man that walked the walk as well Eric
 

Matthew Wyatt

Call me Boris
Aug 3, 2007
2,224
1,988
With respect, @Gilzeanking and @JimmyG2, you appear to have skimmed the article/interview and reacted only to what we already know has annoyed you. Under 20% of the content which directly quotes Dier concerns the Chelsea game, and even then he doesn't advocate we repeat it. It's mostly about his experience of football outside England, which, despite his youth, is considerably more than any other Englishman. You discredit him.
 

Gilzeanking

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2005
6,093
5,019
Where I'm differing from some posters is that , for instance , if we see another club's player stand on a players hand we both think it bad .

If we see a Spurs player do it. For me , that's twice as bad and embarrassing , while for some others the tribalism kicks in and the Spurs player doing it is fine .

...and in the most psychopathic posters its actually a source of pride .

All this on top of taking a massive risk of damaging the team by being sent off or banned .

Good how the team fought for each other that night , but the excesses were insanely stupid .
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
With respect, @Gilzeanking and @JimmyG2, you appear to have skimmed the article/interview and reacted only to what we already know has annoyed you. Under 20% of the content which directly quotes Dier concerns the Chelsea game, and even then he doesn't advocate we repeat it. It's mostly about his experience of football outside England, which, despite his youth, is considerably more than any other Englishman. You discredit him.

No at all, I think he is a good player with great prospects
but needs to concentrate on other aspects of his limited game
other than playing the hard man.
He discredits a fine club by claiming to have uncovered
the secret of our past failures
and thereby tarnishes the memories of great players of the past.
Ironic in the context of the Chelsea game
where he was fortunate to be still on the pitch
and his collection of yellow cards last season
is no credit to him.

Unlike Mackay who had a fine disciplinary record
one red and never sufficient yellows to attract a suspension
as he proudly boasted.
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,232
57,389
No at all, I think he is a good player with great prospects
but needs to concentrate on other aspects of his limited game
other than playing the hard man.
He discredits a fine club by claiming to have uncovered
the secret of our past failures
and thereby tarnishes the memories of great players of the past.
Ironic in the context of the Chelsea game
where he was fortunate to be still on the pitch
and his collection of yellow cards last season
is no credit to him.

Unlike Mackay who had a fine disciplinary record
one red and never sufficient yellows to attract a suspension
as he proudly boasted
.


Times were very different then. I don't suppose he even got booked for the iconic picture incident where he is picking BillY Bremner up by his collar and threatening to lamp him. He'd sure as hell pick up his share of yellows and reds in today's game. In his day a player getting sent off was very, very rare.
 

Matthew Wyatt

Call me Boris
Aug 3, 2007
2,224
1,988
No at all, I think he is a good player with great prospects
but needs to concentrate on other aspects of his limited game
other than playing the hard man.
He discredits a fine club by claiming to have uncovered
the secret of our past failures
and thereby tarnishes the memories of great players of the past.
Ironic in the context of the Chelsea game
where he was fortunate to be still on the pitch
and his collection of yellow cards last season
is no credit to him.

Unlike Mackay who had a fine disciplinary record
one red and never sufficient yellows to attract a suspension
as he proudly boasted.
Sorry, Jimmy, but this still reads as though you're reacting to a selective reading of the leader piece. As an experiment, but try reading the article without the headline and the last couple of paragraphs, and remember that Dier didn't know how he'd be presented.

Not sure about using Mackay's disciplinary record as a basis of comparison either -- surely officials were a lot more lenient back then.
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
18,106
45,030
There is an interesting debate going on here, but it isn't based on the article, it's based on the misleading headline. Read the whole thing. He's advocating the opposite of what some people are getting annoyed about:

‘I think international football is a bit different,’ he said. 'I grew up in Portugal where it’s quite similar and I don’t think it’s as aggressive, it’s got more of an intelligent edge.

‘I think it’s important that we have that. There’s a lot of European and international teams have that intelligent edge as much as an aggressive edge in the things they do.

‘We’ve got to be like that, too. By intelligent I mean they don’t think they go round kicking people. They win fouls in clever places on the pitch, they keep possession, they know how to wind people up, they know how agitate people. We can’t fall for that.

‘We can learn from that. Streetwise is the perfect way to put it. European teams and nations are like that. I think the English are a bit too honest, hard working at times. We need to be clever but we don’t want to lose that English attitude either.’
 

Bulletspur

The Reasonable Advocate
Match Thread Admin
Oct 17, 2006
10,690
25,246
There is an interesting debate going on here, but it isn't based on the article, it's based on the misleading headline. Read the whole thing. He's advocating the opposite of what some people are getting annoyed about:
Well said that man! My sentiments exactly
 

JoeT

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2005
3,813
935
In response to the Dier article, and the differences between 'JimmyG2' and 'Japhet' I would add:
Firstly 'Jimmy..' you mentioned a couple of times "what on earth does it all mean?"....I believe Dier does spell out what other teams have: 'They win fouls in clever places on the pitch; they keep possession; they know how to wind people up; they know how to agitate people.Then he says: WE CAN'T FALL FOR THAT! I think that was his message to his fellow England players.

He then goes on to try to Illustrate how his club team, Spurs, did this against Chelsea, maybe incorrectly, maybe not. I did see Danny Rose - and some of Spurs' mid-fielders - put in some very solid tackles on the Chelsea players, which to me meant they were giving out a clear message of 'Don't mess with us' or something like that. I was O.K. with that part....
The 'handbags' after the game were unnecessary though, and - in a way - showed that Spurs players (as well as Chelsea's) had completely lost their composure.
I.m.h.o. the Dave Mackay 'Comparison' was uneccessary; different era, different player. (Sorry 'Japhet'.)
 

whitesocks

The past means nothing. This is a message for life
Jan 16, 2014
4,652
5,738
Where I'm differing from some posters is that , for instance , if we see another club's player stand on a players hand we both think it bad .

If we see a Spurs player do it. For me , that's twice as bad and embarrassing , while for some others the tribalism kicks in and the Spurs player doing it is fine .

...and in the most psychopathic posters its actually a source of pride .

All this on top of taking a massive risk of damaging the team by being sent off or banned .

Good how the team fought for each other that night , but the excesses were insanely stupid .
It was mostly theatre to be fair - no-one got hurt. Great viewing, but it did not reflect well on us.
Oh well - at least we have finally seen what plan B is. I hope we save this tactic for special occasions only..
 
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