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Diving bans: FA approves retrospective action

mawspurs

Staff
Jun 29, 2003
35,066
17,740
Players who dive in English football will face bans from next season under new Football Association regulations.

Read the full article at BBC
 

eViL

Oliver Skipp's Dad
May 15, 2004
5,840
7,960
Why don't they just let the refereeing team watch replays at the game instead ffs???

Why are these dinosaurs so adverse to anything that helps the referees and players play a fair and consistent game?
 

TottenhamMattSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
10,925
16,007
Why don't they just let the refereeing team watch replays at the game instead ffs???

Why are these dinosaurs so adverse to anything that helps the referees and players play a fair and consistent game?

Because it has to be able to be implemented all the way down through the leagues. And they don't want the game being stopped every 90 seconds.
 

Rocksuperstar

Isn't this fun? Isn't fun the best thing to have?
Jun 6, 2005
53,290
66,758
Because it has to be able to be implemented all the way down through the leagues. And they don't want the game being stopped every 90 seconds.

This is the myth that is being used to argue against live video replays for the 4th official - how many decisions per game would warrant this, genuinely? Think about it - blatant dives, possible fouls - even if you count the odd offside that lead to a goal, you're talking five or six incidents in the most eventful game.

The 4th official will be already rewinding the footage as the whistle blows, the players protesting, the referee explaining what he blew for and talking to the players involved - by this point, the 4th official would've rewatched the incident three or four times and will already have come to a conclusion.

Granted, punishment for divers who weren't spotted, or for those committing fouls off of the ball - retrospective is practically the only way, unless we're going to have judgements at half time, booking players for a tenth minute dive to be applied for the whole second half or whatever, but that won't change the fact that in between the offense and the punishment, a whole lot of football has been played which could've played out differently had the offender been pulled up in the moment. You can't replay fifteen minutes of football here and there.
 

eViL

Oliver Skipp's Dad
May 15, 2004
5,840
7,960
Because it has to be able to be implemented all the way down through the leagues. And they don't want the game being stopped every 90 seconds.

It doesn't really ruin the flow of Rugby and Tennis though + lower level Rugby and Tennis doesn't have it and there's no complaints.

For me, it's a no-brainer.
 

Dillspur

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2004
3,747
9,926
What about when a player "leaves" his leg in? Dele has done this a few times and vardy is the king of it.
 

Ironskullll

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2010
1,378
1,894
Perhaps it's time to think through the whole of football's disciplinary code. For example, first, the idea of red cards for certain offences. Think about it - a player handles on the line after five minutes - he gets a red and misses 85 minutes of the game, Exactly the same offence in injury time might see him miss just a few seconds. Doesn't seem right to me.

Second, a player picks up a string of yellows in various games, through professional fouls and the like but he stays on; his fouls have their desired effect on the opposition and then he picks up a ban. Some other team is actually rewarded with the chance to play a weaker team, where the teams who were offended against - perhaps even cheated out of a result, get nothing.

Third; teams with strong squads just rotate their dirty players - players could sometimes do with a rest at certain times, and sometimes they even seem to pick up cards on purpose so as to get the ban in early and be available when really needed.

I think that a new guiding principle should be adopted whereby punishments should be devised that happen in-game. Penalty goals for certain offences. Sin bins where we presently dish out yellows. The only time reds should be given is for utterly dangerous play or totally bringing the game into disrepute. The number of bans would be greatly reduced because teams are punished during the games in which their players offend.

It would really need to be thought through properly but perhaps now, with the video revolution, this is the time to thoroughly overhaul what is a pretty anachronistic disciplinary code.
 

Rocksuperstar

Isn't this fun? Isn't fun the best thing to have?
Jun 6, 2005
53,290
66,758
Perhaps it's time to think through the whole of football's disciplinary code. For example, first, the idea of red cards for certain offences. Think about it - a player handles on the line after five minutes - he gets a red and misses 85 minutes of the game, Exactly the same offence in injury time might see him miss just a few seconds. Doesn't seem right to me.

Second, a player picks up a string of yellows in various games, through professional fouls and the like but he stays on; his fouls have their desired effect on the opposition and then he picks up a ban. Some other team is actually rewarded with the chance to play a weaker team, where the teams who were offended against - perhaps even cheated out of a result, get nothing.

Third; teams with strong squads just rotate their dirty players - players could sometimes do with a rest at certain times, and sometimes they even seem to pick up cards on purpose so as to get the ban in early and be available when really needed.

I think that a new guiding principle should be adopted whereby punishments should be devised that happen in-game. Penalty goals for certain offences. Sin bins where we presently dish out yellows. The only time reds should be given is for utterly dangerous play or totally bringing the game into disrepute. The number of bans would be greatly reduced because teams are punished during the games in which their players offend.

It would really need to be thought through properly but perhaps now, with the video revolution, this is the time to thoroughly overhaul what is a pretty anachronistic disciplinary code.

Not sure about penalty goals, i think a penalty being awarded is fairer, but sin-bins = yes, definitely. Like you say, a careless, over excited hand ball early in the game, ten minute sin bin* makes far more sense and keeps the game competitive for the paying fans.

*more likely, sin-area to allow the player to keep moving; imagine the slew of complaints to the FA blaming injuries on players being stranded on a bench cooling off or some shit
 

slartibartfast

Grunge baby forever
Oct 21, 2012
18,320
33,955
Not sure about penalty goals, i think a penalty being awarded is fairer, but sin-bins = yes, definitely. Like you say, a careless, over excited hand ball early in the game, ten minute sin bin* makes far more sense and keeps the game competitive for the paying fans.

*more likely, sin-area to allow the player to keep moving; imagine the slew of complaints to the FA blaming injuries on players being stranded on a bench cooling off or some shit
You have to think like a player/manager when coming up with new ideas because they will use it to their advantage.
A 10 min sin bin for a handball would have to be outside the area only otherwise they'd take the piss and handle every shot pleading innocence which again is open to interpretation and creating another grey area.
 

Rocksuperstar

Isn't this fun? Isn't fun the best thing to have?
Jun 6, 2005
53,290
66,758
Yep, totally agree, there'd have to be a lot of thought go into it, more than my tiny, fragile mind could cope with, but i still think sin-bins are the way forward. In some form.
 

lol

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2008
6,651
6,082
Because it has to be able to be implemented all the way down through the leagues. And they don't want the game being stopped every 90 seconds.
It doesn't really ruin the flow of Rugby and Tennis though + lower level Rugby and Tennis doesn't have it and there's no complaints.

For me, it's a no-brainer.


simply because they are archaic. I watched the rugby 7s live, so i finally experienced first hand live action, how much the video replay delays the game, and i can safely say its negligible. Its the same amount of time taken as someone walking off the pitch when getting subbed, or being tended to for injury, or a goal celebration... And its not like ref needs to run to a special room either - he just watched the instant reply on the big screen like the rest of us, and every angle was clear as day.

We're talking about try conversions, that means making a call on whether the ball - amidst that mass of piled up bodies - touched the line first or whether the opponent managed to slot his hand under the ball before it hit the ground.

Such minutiae buried under a heap of men, and it can still be resolved with a negligible delay - theres no reason why u cant make a call on a foul.

Football is just stuck in the middle ages where they think that the injustice of decisions adds to the drama of the game, while failing to see that a higher level of tension and suspense can be created when the entire crowd is watching every frame of the replay, yet without the injustice of a botched call
 

eViL

Oliver Skipp's Dad
May 15, 2004
5,840
7,960
simply because they are archaic. I watched the rugby 7s live, so i finally experienced first hand live action, how much the video replay delays the game, and i can safely say its negligible. Its the same amount of time taken as someone walking off the pitch when getting subbed, or being tended to for injury, or a goal celebration... And its not like ref needs to run to a special room either - he just watched the instant reply on the big screen like the rest of us, and every angle was clear as day.

We're talking about try conversions, that means making a call on whether the ball - amidst that mass of piled up bodies - touched the line first or whether the opponent managed to slot his hand under the ball before it hit the ground.

Such minutiae buried under a heap of men, and it can still be resolved with a negligible delay - theres no reason why u cant make a call on a foul.

Football is just stuck in the middle ages where they think that the injustice of decisions adds to the drama of the game, while failing to see that a higher level of tension and suspense can be created when the entire crowd is watching every frame of the replay, yet without the injustice of a botched call

Some times I wonder whether it's the broadcasting companies influencing it too; they'd certainly have less to talk about during analysis/punditry.
 

Ironskullll

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2010
1,378
1,894
Perhaps it's time to think through the whole of football's disciplinary code. For example, first, the idea of red cards for certain offences. Think about it - a player handles on the line after five minutes - he gets a red and misses 85 minutes of the game, Exactly the same offence in injury time might see him miss just a few seconds. Doesn't seem right to me.

Second, a player picks up a string of yellows in various games, through professional fouls and the like but he stays on; his fouls have their desired effect on the opposition and then he picks up a ban. Some other team is actually rewarded with the chance to play a weaker team, where the teams who were offended against - perhaps even cheated out of a result, get nothing.

Third; teams with strong squads just rotate their dirty players - players could sometimes do with a rest at certain times, and sometimes they even seem to pick up cards on purpose so as to get the ban in early and be available when really needed.

I think that a new guiding principle should be adopted whereby punishments should be devised that happen in-game. Penalty goals for certain offences. Sin bins where we presently dish out yellows. The only time reds should be given is for utterly dangerous play or totally bringing the game into disrepute. The number of bans would be greatly reduced because teams are punished during the games in which their players offend.

It would really need to be thought through properly but perhaps now, with the video revolution, this is the time to thoroughly overhaul what is a pretty anachronistic disciplinary code.
By the way, expect Man Utd to be ultra-cynical in their ropey final against Ajax. Their game will be full of time-wasting, off the ball fouls, nudges, kicks; they will berate and cajole the officials; they will dive and con the ref. Bookings will mean nothing to them, even a red card or two in the context of a highly disciplined, brutal and defensive performance. Winning is vital to them, and they will look to win at all costs. Remember Porto-Celtic in 2003?
 

TottenhamMattSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
10,925
16,007
simply because they are archaic. I watched the rugby 7s live, so i finally experienced first hand live action, how much the video replay delays the game, and i can safely say its negligible. Its the same amount of time taken as someone walking off the pitch when getting subbed, or being tended to for injury, or a goal celebration... And its not like ref needs to run to a special room either - he just watched the instant reply on the big screen like the rest of us, and every angle was clear as day.

We're talking about try conversions, that means making a call on whether the ball - amidst that mass of piled up bodies - touched the line first or whether the opponent managed to slot his hand under the ball before it hit the ground.

Such minutiae buried under a heap of men, and it can still be resolved with a negligible delay - theres no reason why u cant make a call on a foul.

Football is just stuck in the middle ages where they think that the injustice of decisions adds to the drama of the game, while failing to see that a higher level of tension and suspense can be created when the entire crowd is watching every frame of the replay, yet without the injustice of a botched call

So they watch a replay, on a massive screen that the fans can also see?
Yeah, let's see how that goes Eh.
Not to mention only a few teams have screens.

Football isn't rugby, which in its very nature is a stoppy starty game, especially rugby league.
Football is football and there's already too many stoppages creeping into the game with all the play acting.

Just ban the diving ****s for 10 games retrospectively.
Or better, if it gains points for the team, take them away as well as ban the diver.
 
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