The hard truth is that even if things go well it is going to be at least another season (and probably another one after that) before this team is on the same planet as the "big four." Makes it even more frustrating that we have taken our eye off the ball in the Prem (e.g. resting Lennon last weekend). Just look at the record books and see which teams win the FA and Carling Cups. A top 6 Prem finish (and European football next season) should have been the priority this season and I don't think it has been and I think MJ must take some of the blame.
And I really worry that we don't appear to have one youngster who can freshen up the team. Villa, Blackburn and Newcastle have all done so recently. With mixed result I know but they are likely to be better players as a result. Spurs Acadamey results - zilch.
look its becoming a frustrating season but lets evaluate at the end of the season, im less than happy with the current form and im worried we wont end up with anything at the end of the season but lets not go over the top, i cant believe people are saying jols a phoney and they want him gone, fuckin hell hes only been in charge less than 2 full season i suppose, theyd be happy if we still had players like sinton, wilson and scott, fuckin get real fools!
I thought that to be a FAN of a team you were supposed to think that your team was the greatest team in the world?
I have obviously got it all wrong!
There is not a manager who is perfect, bmj was brought in as a number 2 and since he has taken over we have had the best sequence of consistent results in almost 20 years. We are missing our most influential players and have been plagued by injury all season.
Regarding away games. The tone for the season was set at bolton. We conceded a goal from a corner when it was clear that davenport was held back, we then conceded another goal from a 35 yard strike that was unstoppable. This was followed by games at pool and man u as well as scumville and reading. While I agree that his tactics have been negative do you not think that this has something to do with injuries? The players lacking confidence? The players not being able to put his plans into action as they did at pompey? Or man city? Man u? Reading (for the first half)? The players must also take responsibility and there is no reason to believe that any other manager in the same circumstances could have made a significant difference.
Still in 3 cup competitions, in a decent position to challenge in the league, the best young squad we have had in years, I'll take that!
I was also listening to 606 on the way back from the match last night and agree with you. Unbelievable nonsense some of them came out with! It's always the same on phone ins though. Clearly, Berbatov going off was disastrous. Once he had, we couldn't keep the ball up front. It's all very well saying Mido should have come on instead of Keane but he's not fit and has been generally ineffectual when he's played this season. When Jol played Keane on the left against Chelsea people were saying he was a tactical genius, now he's a fool. It wasn't the right move last night and arguably it hasn't worked in other games it's been used in, bar chelsea, but this kind of extreme switching of views is crazy. Like the article says, people need to find some balance in their opinions. It seems too often that people look at everything as black or white and ignore the shades of grey in between.
Yeah last season was great. But we might have been 3rd or higher if it wasn't for...
West Ham draw on 90th minute goal at home
Sunderland draw on 89th minute goal on the road
Fulham loss on 90th minute goal on the road
Arsenal draw on 84th minute goal (albeit sketchy) on the road
10 Points lost in the last 5 minutes of games
and lets not forget the FA shame of being up 2-0 to lost to Leicester.
And yesterday with a 2-0 lead we get drawn by the reserves of our most hated rival.
Shit ain't roses. And this is a disgraceful trend. I'm not saying fire Jol, he has his strengths and the team has done well, but I sure as hell ain't in the mood to give him the benefit of the doubt any longer. He has things to prove, that he didn't before, such as brass and tactics. So maybe it's time you Jol lovers get your head out of the clouds and start rightfully questioning what he's doing. He deserves the respect of a coach who has done the team proud, but he doesn't deserve the reverence of a legend.
To me it now is evident thsat it was a fluke we got 5th last season. Quite simply, lets get back to basics, we really lack a true leader on the field, as someone mentioned we have great players, but they lack the menatality of 'winning'. This will come through time and expereince. But yesterday, I have to compliment Wenger for his belief and tactics for the Game. Jol, great guy, excellent mana manager BUT do question his tactics and reading the game. Yesterday, illustrated the gap between a 'class side' and Spurs. We still have a long way to go ...
All this jol bashing is over the top. We all want to make the step up to becoming at CL team, but, can any of you honestly say that, player for player, we are better than manu, arsenal, chelsea or liverpool? It will take time to bridge this gap and I really can't see how changing coaches is going to make any difference. As Jol repeatedly says, we dont have the clout to buy the 26 y/o gerrards of this world, so we have to try and pick them up earlier in their careers. This need to develop youngsters inevitably means that we are not yet the finished product, and wont be for some time. But we will never get there if we get frustrated after a few years and decide to change horse mid-stream.
Nice post, Jol IS the man to take us onwards and upwards, christ with the rubbish we've had to put up with over the years you'd think we'd have a bit more patience. Some would have us sack him and get back on the new manager every 2 years merry go round. Stability is very important, just look at the shakey start Fergie had at UTD what would have happened to them if he'd been sacked ?
I get pissed off with my football team from time to time when result don't go my way, but what frustrates me even more than the odd poor performance is the attitude of some fans.. Some people are just so negitive and i get the impression there the sort of people if we were winning prem and champ lge titles, they would be the ones saying that its not good enough we are not playing the spurs way !!
people moan about the fact that the team backed off last night and looked shaky... I'm not surprised, can you imagine being in a ground with 30 thousand spurs fans going mad singing dancing for 35 mins then when it looks like we are under pressure they go quite and obviously worried about conceding before half time. Then they come out a half time and the fans are going mad again making loads of noise then all of a sudden there is a little bit of pressure and they score the fans go quite and all of a sudden people are think please do throw this away, i know whats going to happen, etc etc. That must feed down to the players and make then jumpy and nervious..... The point i'm trying to make is if you want perfect performance from every player every game we need perfect performance from the fans every game. That means signing your hearts out and making as much noise as possible for 90 mins come what may.
Last season was a strange one! Ok, so we achieved our highest finish in the league for ages BUT our bread & butter, the cup competitions, we were an embarrassment!
In the league we started to faulter towards the end of the season and no one capitalised on that, well, until the final game of the season. If arsenal had put a run together they would have probably finished 8 points clear of us.
Last season we only had to play 40 games, even Charlton & Watfor will surpass that this season! This season we've already played 36, are still in all the cup comps, and althought not in the European places in the League at the moment we are only 3 points off them, having been rather indifferent with our form.
Our most important player, Ledley King, has been missing on and off for nearly half the games we have played this season, and therein lies our problem....
Taking all the above into consideration we are currently experiencing a better season than last year, although it doesn't seem like it!
Every manager makes a balls up from time to time, they are only human after all, what makes a manager is how he reacts to it and LEARNS from it!
Going back to last night I am sick & tired about hearing how good the arsenal "kids" are so I decided to do some math......last night we had an average age throughout our 16 man squad of 24.87 with a total average of appearances of 56.75. The goons had an average age of 22.43 with a total average of appearances of 38.34. Not much higher are we?
I then decided to do the same thing with the Liverpool squad that got thumped by them a couple of weeks ago and they had an average age of 25.81 with total average appearances at 144.62.
The future is bright for the club, make no bones about it but what us supporters want is a bit of consistency, this will only come with experience and as the above stats show that is something we are lacking in!!!
Look at the following list....
Zokora, Hudd, Davids, Murphy, Jenas, Tainio, Ghaly.
I think we all agree that Hudd and Jenas have potential, but after that, I'm not sure that the rest are good enough to get us into the Champions League. Steed looked good first half last night, and if Ledders is fit, we should be better at the back. We need a leader in the middle of the park stop us getting overrun, particularlt away from home.
Name one game where this has been the starting line up..... bare in mind Malbranque only started playing this year, Ekotto was dropped after the Arsenal shambles, Jenas has been injured for months and Hudd only started playing when Jenas was injured.....
Good post?? Yes we had a good season last year, but you can hardly say that he doesnt diserve criticism because of that.
Sir Alex Ferguson's position was in question a couple of years ago despite his great success. Arsene Wenger has been questioned on occasions by ARSEnal fans.
Jol got us 5th. Doesnt mean he's immune. Personally, i think the weaknesses in our team, ie our vulnrebility away from home, traditional crap 2nd half performances, are infact down to the manager. If this was the first time that we said we fel apart in the 2nd half, or our toothless away performances happened once in a blue moon, then i'd be the first to tell any people criticising to fuck off, i love Jol and i wouldnt want anyone else at the helm. I desperately want us to succeed with him in charge. He's made to be a Spurs legend.
But i do think that he needs to wake up a bit. I mean, bringing on KEane for Berbatov and changing the system to the one we lost 3-0 with at the Immigrants is plain ignorance. A quarter of the gfam in and Jol and his players had setteld. And if the players sat back with their own initiative, then as a manager, he ought to have brought the likes of Ghaly on to show he's not to be fucked with. But the fact that he didnt do so, proves that yes, Mr Jol was happy for his team to try and keep the game at 2-0 and try and sit back against a deadly side (who werent youngsters ffs) with our dodgy back 4 and questionable keeper.
Just consider a few things before posting a post criticising poeple who are questioning Jol's management. It's their right since Jol has made MANY tactical misjudgements that have cost us dear this season. . .
Wrong. No such thing as a 38 game fluke mate, we were by far and away the 5th best team in the league last year. The table doesn't lie after a full season, and the team in 5th deserves to be there.
Unfortunately though, these things are all reset for the next season and you are only as good as your last result/performance.
Sure I'm a little dissapointed by yesterdays result and the season so far in general, but I'm also not one of the morons proving once again how fickle a bunch of supporters we truly are.
Lets look at our position.
Uefa cup - Last 32 at an absolute canter. This has been the platform for some of our better performances this season, perhaps proving that the foreign lads in the team are not quite up to speed yet with the frenetic pace of the prem.
League 9th I believe, and after Man Utd next weekend we have a run of 5 games which include Reading, Sheff utd and Watford which are all winnable and could put us up in the mix again.
League cup and Fa Cup, still in there and fighting, very very fortunate draws so far, but we beat the teams in front of us didnt we?
Jol a legend? No, not yet. Jol make errors? Yep, just like they all do. Sack Jol and bring in someone else? First of all, who?? Second of all, why? Because we're not 1st/2nd/3rd/4th? Because we didnt smash Arsenal last night? Because we've had a few indifferent results/performances? Someone said that Jol was perceived as a genius when we switched to 4-5-1 and beat Chelsea and then perceived as the opposite when we switched to the same and had one against the Arsenal last night. Get real. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. He could have bought on Mido, but he has proven that he simply isnt upto it at the minute, and then if he had bought on Mido and we had lost, surprise, surprise, the moron brigade would be questioning why we didnt bring Keane on and switch to 4-5-1 like "that time when it worked vs chelsea".
Can I also point out one more thing. Yes, we played Arsenals "reserves", but Arsenals' "reserves" are a team that have bonded together in this tournament, smashed Liverpool last time out and are labelled as the future of Arsenal for a reason. Included in the team where these "deadweights"
Almunia - Blinder in the Champions League final
Hoyte - Decent right back
Traore - A very promising left-back, looks like he will be as good as Cole & Clichy. Not sure where Arsenal keep finding them.
Toure - One of Arsenals first choice CB's
Senderos - Mostly average IMO
Fabregas - One of the best footballers in the world
Denilson - No mug, 3.5M for a kid means he is something special, and last night he showed glimpses
Walcott - Another very promising young player. 6-10M wasnt it?
Diaby - Decent CM
Aliadiare - Average
Baptista - Cost Real Madrid upwards of 12M little over a year ago.
Lets make one thing perfectly clear. Arsenal are better than Tottenham. By an absolute mile. I don't like it. You don't like it. But its the truth. For twenty minutes, our near enough first team (missing King & Jenas) were 2-0 up playing some sexy stuff. They deservedly clawed it back, and hopefully it is something we will learn from.
All in all though, some of you guys need to get real, I don't know why I constantly come on this board cos some of the comments embarrass me.
(Oh and alfiespurs this post wasnt a pop at you mate, even though I quoted you at the beginning!)
-We are playing infinitely more attractive and skilful football than we have done for a decade.
-All management teams require time and perseverence to get things right - there are so many variables that are out of a managers control that performance can suffer, but over the long term a consistent coaching model from a manager who has a willing motivated squad will start to show results.
-Who, oh wise ones, is a available who would be better than Jol?
-A new manager means turmoil - inevitably he will want to bring in players he trusts (great - more new faces!) and disenchantment from currently committed players - so bye bye Lennon, King et al.
-We are still in a solid league position - AND WE ARE STILL IN THIS FECKING CUP TIE!!!!
-This team definitely needs a strong leadership personality to maintain momentum and instil belief on the pitch. Ledders ain't that man.
Of course I remember last season - I remember us winning the double, so last year's not much of a problem
I would say we are doing roughly as well as last season at the moment - if we win a trophy we'll have performed better than last season - if, as is likely, we win nowt - then probably this season will be a little worse, but I doubt by much
UEFA Cup has been great, but I don't care if we don't qualify for it by the League next season, it gives us more ability to deal with the domestic trophies.
Yes, I want us to finish as high in Lge as possible - but if it's 7th or 8th, UEFA/no Uefa - i'm not going to lose sleep over it
If I sincerely thought good players would turn us down because we're not in next season's UEFA, I would change my mind - but I doubt it's the case.