Do we need Dier now?

Discussion in 'Spurs Chat' started by Maske2g, Aug 26, 2017.

  1. allpaths

    allpaths Well-Known Member

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    we got a shit ton of important games and play a lot with 3 cbs, yeah i think we need a player as versatile as Dier.
     
  2. eViL

    eViL SC's Naughty Boy

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    Dier needed a challenge to his starting place to keep improving.

    Now he's got it.
     
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  3. Ionman34

    Ionman34 SC Supporter

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    If you stop and think about it, the question is actually a pretty good one that really should have you weighing up the pro's and con's of Dier.
    His first season as a DM was a revelation alongside Dembele. He patrolled his area well, broke up play superbly and slotted in between Vertonghen and Alderweireld naturally when required. However, the acquisition of Wanyama saw us get a player even better at the role than Dier, as evidenced by the number of MOTM votes Wanyama got from us last season.
    As a CB, he's obviously 3rd choice, currently, behind Vertonghen and Alderweireld, I'm not even going to consider Sanchez just yet as he's done nothing to prove he's ahead of Dier, despite the price tag. This means that he's a shoe in if we play a back 3.
    With the advent of Aurier, he's going to be behind him and Trippier, even KWP, for consideration there, so our nett result is that he's a starter if we play a back 3, 2nd choice for DM and 3rd/4th choice for RB.

    Now I have the same issues with Dier playing alongside Wanyama in midfield as BC does. Dier can pick a pass, but even the most rabid Dier fan would struggle to consider him a playmaker in the truest sense. He's not particularly dynamic going forward, doesn't have the 360 degree vision that a player like Eriksen has, and doesn't surge forward like Dembele. Dier does often find himself in decent shooting positions outside the box, but that is more reactive than proactive movement, he'll mop up rather than create, so partnering him with Wanyama can hamstring us in a way as it stifles our dynamism through the middle. Effectively, he's most effective when alongside that dynamic midfielder. Unfortunately, Wanyama is better.
    So, I recognise that Dier has played a big part in our progression over the last 2-3 seasons, but I don't think it is a stupid question to ask whether a more visionary playmaker could have contributed maybe more in that role. We'll never know, but it is certainly one to ponder.

    Let's not forget though that Dier is still young. At 23 he is still learning and is a good 2-4 years away from his prime. The problem we have is that he's established, so he'll not be content to play second fiddle to anyone. I also feel that he sees himself as a bit of a playmaker. Unfortunately he's not, when you compare him to the likes of Fabregas who, despite being a detestable human being, is a top drawer playmaker. With a player like him in the Dier role I honestly think we'd be even better. The trouble is that those type of players are in huge demand and get paid accordingly. I have hopes that Onomah can develop into one of those types and feel that Winks will but, again, they're years away from the finished article.

    It's a difficult one and Dier is always going to be a player that polarises opinion. In conclusion though, my opinion is that, until Sanchez proves he's better, and we either find, or develop, a better CM, Dier should be kept. He's still developing himself as a player and may just take a step up as a playmaker, though I doubt it and feel he'd be better off improving his defensive skills so that Poch has 4 CB's that are interchangeable. Whether he's prepared to accept that is another matter.

    What I do feel though is that his game has stagnated somewhat since Wanyama came in. If Winks, and even Onomah, develop further, I can see Dier rethinking his position at Spurs, particularly if Sanchez turns out to be as good as his potential suggests.
     
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  4. SandroClegane

    SandroClegane BSoDL

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    Apparently in @Maske2g 's world, players don't suffer injuries, therefore we all just dreamed that Wanyama missed like 4 weeks of preseason with an injury and Dier was his only cover.
     
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  5. Maske2g

    Maske2g SC Supporter

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    On the contrary, I realise that we can't afford the luxury of a 60 million pound player sitting on the bench as cover when we have a lack of depth in 2-3 other positions as well. He isn't that good. If someone wants to pay that sort of money, it would go nicely towards having depth up front and
    Because Dier isn't a great player and someone wanted to pay 60 million. As with Walker, I'm fine with that.

    I wasn't outraged. he was 100% right. And neither Dier or Walker, can lick Roses boots.
     
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  6. Shadydan

    Shadydan Well-Known Member

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    @Maske2g Who is going to pay £60m for Dier? Utd were after him because they didn't have Matic?
     
  7. Maske2g

    Maske2g SC Supporter

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    I find it comical that the two arguments so far are his versatility, he is a jack of all trade
    One of Fergie's best known quote's centered around the fact that when Utd had a successful season, that was the time he most wanted to address weaknesses, to avoid complacency.

    Well we haven't won anything, and complacency is abundant! Our squad is still missing depth.


    Calling Dier a key player is a joke.

    Toby, Jan, Wanyama, Dembele, Kane.

    These are the ky players, who we have/would miss greatly if they are injured, or not match fit. Some of them have been proven time and time again.

    We have 4 other centre halves at this moment.

    There have been some valid points that Sanchez is unproven, and we don't have a 2nd DM. However, I would fancy a midfield of Dembele and Winks holding up for a run of games. I couldn't say the same for Janssen being back up top.

    You have seen where else we lack. Moussa Sissoko already has 2 appearances this year!!!

    God forbid another Kane Injury at the moment. Need I remind anyone that it coincided with 7 games without a win last October.
     
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  8. Maske2g

    Maske2g SC Supporter

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    Good point. It's hypothetical only now. And very likely impossible.
     
  9. jonathanhotspur

    jonathanhotspur Loose Cannon

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    That's crap, @Bus-Conductor. He was pulling the strings with his pointing.
     
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  10. nightgoat

    nightgoat Well-Known Member

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    This is actually a serious thread? Jesus fucking Christ...
     
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  11. tiger666

    tiger666 Large member

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    We challenged for the title last season and finished runners up with the best defence in the league. Dier played more minutes than any other player in the squad.
     
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  12. Stevespurs71

    Stevespurs71 Active Member

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    Great post.
     
  13. TottenhamMattSpur

    TottenhamMattSpur Well-Known Member

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    We don't need to sell his type.
    If we're selling it needs to be Sissoko, Janssen, GKN, Players who have had little positive affect on the team.
     
  14. Shadydan

    Shadydan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah hypotetically the question should be how much would it take to sell Eric Dier and to whom...personally I wouldn't sell at this very moment as he's obviously a key member of the squad, you only have to see how Poch utilises him and how Levy fought to keep him to see that and there's rumours of him being offered a new contact so they clearly value him.
     
  15. ralvy

    ralvy Active Member

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    We need him purely for rotation porpuses, but I think he may be close to lose his place as a regular starter.
     
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  16. Tottenham_God

    Tottenham_God Well-Known Member

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    Need him in the squad, don't need him for every game. Think John O'shea
     
  17. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    I got the impression that Dier would have quite fancied the move to ManU, or certainly wouldn't have complained. Or am I imagining that one of the ITK's said that ?
     
  18. Navin R Johnson

    Navin R Johnson Well-Known Member

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    I've been viewing, reading and commenting on different Spurs forums since the turn of the century, one of the terms I hated was dead wood when it was used to describe a player who had once been invaluable but was no longer considered so as the squad evolved and improved with transfer windows, I thought it disrespectful and dehumanising. Thankfully the term doesn't seem to get used as often as it once did. Taking everything I've said into account I arrived at the opinion last season that given a decent window then Dier would move closer to being a squad player rather than a shoe-in, if the recent and assumed new signings perform to their hype then I think Dier is on his way towards that place.

    I chat to mates who aren't Spurs fans but aren't out to score points, they just wan't to chat about football over a few pints, all fans think their club and players are better than they actually are, it's the nature of supporting a club and investing out time in them when we go to see them but what my mates can't see is how Dier is considered as anything special, it's definitely a Spurs thing and fair play to us for that.

    I'll get to my point after my meanderings, in short I'm with Maske2g, Dier's not dead wood but if the right offer came along we'd be fools not to consider it.
     
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  19. muppetman

    muppetman Well-Known Member

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    Everyone agrees that we don't want to see the return of the Spurs "soft centre" but then people talk about letting Danny Rose and Eric Dier go. I just don't understand it - this isn't a management sim, it's not just about the quality on the pitch it's also about the team dynamic.

    Why have Spurs punched above their weight over the last couple of seasons? It's because we are more than the sum of our parts and some of that is the mental change brought about by Poch and exemplified by Dier and Rose.

    In short, no I wouldn't sell Dier as I think he is someone who can play multiple positions to a very high standard but also is part of the "new mentality" at Spurs that doesn't give two fucks who we are playing against and does not back down - he is very much Poch on the pitch in that regard.
     
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  20. Spurger King

    Spurger King can't smile without glue

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    I love Dier, but Wanyama coming in last season has made him more of a utility player. If everyone's fit, he doesn't start. I wouldn't want to lose him, but I could understand us selling if a big offer came in.
     

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