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Do we need Dier now?

allpaths

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2014
3,174
8,381
we got a shit ton of important games and play a lot with 3 cbs, yeah i think we need a player as versatile as Dier.
 

eViL

Oliver Skipp's Dad
May 15, 2004
5,840
7,960
Dier needed a challenge to his starting place to keep improving.

Now he's got it.
 

Ionman34

SC Supporter
Jun 1, 2011
7,182
16,793
If you stop and think about it, the question is actually a pretty good one that really should have you weighing up the pro's and con's of Dier.
His first season as a DM was a revelation alongside Dembele. He patrolled his area well, broke up play superbly and slotted in between Vertonghen and Alderweireld naturally when required. However, the acquisition of Wanyama saw us get a player even better at the role than Dier, as evidenced by the number of MOTM votes Wanyama got from us last season.
As a CB, he's obviously 3rd choice, currently, behind Vertonghen and Alderweireld, I'm not even going to consider Sanchez just yet as he's done nothing to prove he's ahead of Dier, despite the price tag. This means that he's a shoe in if we play a back 3.
With the advent of Aurier, he's going to be behind him and Trippier, even KWP, for consideration there, so our nett result is that he's a starter if we play a back 3, 2nd choice for DM and 3rd/4th choice for RB.

Now I have the same issues with Dier playing alongside Wanyama in midfield as BC does. Dier can pick a pass, but even the most rabid Dier fan would struggle to consider him a playmaker in the truest sense. He's not particularly dynamic going forward, doesn't have the 360 degree vision that a player like Eriksen has, and doesn't surge forward like Dembele. Dier does often find himself in decent shooting positions outside the box, but that is more reactive than proactive movement, he'll mop up rather than create, so partnering him with Wanyama can hamstring us in a way as it stifles our dynamism through the middle. Effectively, he's most effective when alongside that dynamic midfielder. Unfortunately, Wanyama is better.
So, I recognise that Dier has played a big part in our progression over the last 2-3 seasons, but I don't think it is a stupid question to ask whether a more visionary playmaker could have contributed maybe more in that role. We'll never know, but it is certainly one to ponder.

Let's not forget though that Dier is still young. At 23 he is still learning and is a good 2-4 years away from his prime. The problem we have is that he's established, so he'll not be content to play second fiddle to anyone. I also feel that he sees himself as a bit of a playmaker. Unfortunately he's not, when you compare him to the likes of Fabregas who, despite being a detestable human being, is a top drawer playmaker. With a player like him in the Dier role I honestly think we'd be even better. The trouble is that those type of players are in huge demand and get paid accordingly. I have hopes that Onomah can develop into one of those types and feel that Winks will but, again, they're years away from the finished article.

It's a difficult one and Dier is always going to be a player that polarises opinion. In conclusion though, my opinion is that, until Sanchez proves he's better, and we either find, or develop, a better CM, Dier should be kept. He's still developing himself as a player and may just take a step up as a playmaker, though I doubt it and feel he'd be better off improving his defensive skills so that Poch has 4 CB's that are interchangeable. Whether he's prepared to accept that is another matter.

What I do feel though is that his game has stagnated somewhat since Wanyama came in. If Winks, and even Onomah, develop further, I can see Dier rethinking his position at Spurs, particularly if Sanchez turns out to be as good as his potential suggests.
 

SandroClegane

Well-Known Member
Jun 27, 2012
3,717
13,842
Apparently in @Maske2g 's world, players don't suffer injuries, therefore we all just dreamed that Wanyama missed like 4 weeks of preseason with an injury and Dier was his only cover.
 

Maske2g

SC Supporter
Feb 1, 2005
4,257
1,726
Apparently in @Maske2g 's world, players don't suffer injuries, therefore we all just dreamed that Wanyama missed like 4 weeks of preseason with an injury and Dier was his only cover.
On the contrary, I realise that we can't afford the luxury of a 60 million pound player sitting on the bench as cover when we have a lack of depth in 2-3 other positions as well. He isn't that good. If someone wants to pay that sort of money, it would go nicely towards having depth up front and
Why do you, and a lot of others Ive seen, just assume that Sanchez will be ahead of Dier for that RCB role. Sanchez is just 21 and has only done the business for 1 season in Europe and that was in a poor Eredivisie. Dier has performed at a high standard in the PL for 3 season now. Until Sanchez actually proves otherwise at Spurs, for me it's still Dier >>> Sanchez.
Because Dier isn't a great player and someone wanted to pay 60 million. As with Walker, I'm fine with that.

I also find it funny that some fans are outraged when a player hints that he might want to leave (i.e. Rose), but are quite happy to sell players who have shown loyalty and want to be at the club like Dier.

I wasn't outraged. he was 100% right. And neither Dier or Walker, can lick Roses boots.
 

Maske2g

SC Supporter
Feb 1, 2005
4,257
1,726
I find it comical that the two arguments so far are his versatility, he is a jack of all trade
Our best squad in my lifetime, probably most of our lifetimes, and people are still trying to break it up and play Football Manager. Don't sell any of the key players, leave the thing alone and add some more quality for depth. Competition for places is healthy, especially if we want to compete on multiple levels and progress as a football club.
One of Fergie's best known quote's centered around the fact that when Utd had a successful season, that was the time he most wanted to address weaknesses, to avoid complacency.

Well we haven't won anything, and complacency is abundant! Our squad is still missing depth.


Calling Dier a key player is a joke.

Toby, Jan, Wanyama, Dembele, Kane.

These are the ky players, who we have/would miss greatly if they are injured, or not match fit. Some of them have been proven time and time again.

We have 4 other centre halves at this moment.

There have been some valid points that Sanchez is unproven, and we don't have a 2nd DM. However, I would fancy a midfield of Dembele and Winks holding up for a run of games. I couldn't say the same for Janssen being back up top.

You have seen where else we lack. Moussa Sissoko already has 2 appearances this year!!!

God forbid another Kane Injury at the moment. Need I remind anyone that it coincided with 7 games without a win last October.
 

jonathanhotspur

Loose Cannon
Jun 28, 2009
10,292
8,250
With him on we were losing 1-0, we took him off and equalised. Wanyama had a stinker, but was clearly not up to match speed, what we needed was to move the ball with a bit of tempo and wit, and Dier just does not do this. He was part of the problem against Chelsea, not the solution.
That's crap, @Bus-Conductor. He was pulling the strings with his pointing.
 

tiger666

Large Member
Jan 4, 2005
27,978
82,214
He isn't that good.

Because Dier isn't a great player

neither Dier or Walker, can lick Roses boots.

We challenged for the title last season and finished runners up with the best defence in the league. Dier played more minutes than any other player in the squad.
 

Stevespurs71

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2010
356
756
I also find it funny that some fans are outraged when a player hints that he might want to leave (i.e. Rose), but are quite happy to sell players who have shown loyalty and want to be at the club like Dier.
Great post.
 

TottenhamMattSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
10,925
16,007
We don't need to sell his type.
If we're selling it needs to be Sissoko, Janssen, GKN, Players who have had little positive affect on the team.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
Good point. It's hypothetical only now. And very likely impossible.

Yeah hypotetically the question should be how much would it take to sell Eric Dier and to whom...personally I wouldn't sell at this very moment as he's obviously a key member of the squad, you only have to see how Poch utilises him and how Levy fought to keep him to see that and there's rumours of him being offered a new contact so they clearly value him.
 

ralvy

AVB my love
Jun 26, 2012
2,505
4,603
We need him purely for rotation porpuses, but I think he may be close to lose his place as a regular starter.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
I also find it funny that some fans are outraged when a player hints that he might want to leave (i.e. Rose), but are quite happy to sell players who have shown loyalty and want to be at the club like Dier.


I got the impression that Dier would have quite fancied the move to ManU, or certainly wouldn't have complained. Or am I imagining that one of the ITK's said that ?
 

Navin R Johnson

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2011
6,376
15,070
I've been viewing, reading and commenting on different Spurs forums since the turn of the century, one of the terms I hated was dead wood when it was used to describe a player who had once been invaluable but was no longer considered so as the squad evolved and improved with transfer windows, I thought it disrespectful and dehumanising. Thankfully the term doesn't seem to get used as often as it once did. Taking everything I've said into account I arrived at the opinion last season that given a decent window then Dier would move closer to being a squad player rather than a shoe-in, if the recent and assumed new signings perform to their hype then I think Dier is on his way towards that place.

I chat to mates who aren't Spurs fans but aren't out to score points, they just wan't to chat about football over a few pints, all fans think their club and players are better than they actually are, it's the nature of supporting a club and investing out time in them when we go to see them but what my mates can't see is how Dier is considered as anything special, it's definitely a Spurs thing and fair play to us for that.

I'll get to my point after my meanderings, in short I'm with Maske2g, Dier's not dead wood but if the right offer came along we'd be fools not to consider it.
 

muppetman

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
8,901
24,816
Everyone agrees that we don't want to see the return of the Spurs "soft centre" but then people talk about letting Danny Rose and Eric Dier go. I just don't understand it - this isn't a management sim, it's not just about the quality on the pitch it's also about the team dynamic.

Why have Spurs punched above their weight over the last couple of seasons? It's because we are more than the sum of our parts and some of that is the mental change brought about by Poch and exemplified by Dier and Rose.

In short, no I wouldn't sell Dier as I think he is someone who can play multiple positions to a very high standard but also is part of the "new mentality" at Spurs that doesn't give two fucks who we are playing against and does not back down - he is very much Poch on the pitch in that regard.
 

Spurger King

can't smile without glue
Jul 22, 2008
43,881
95,147
I love Dier, but Wanyama coming in last season has made him more of a utility player. If everyone's fit, he doesn't start. I wouldn't want to lose him, but I could understand us selling if a big offer came in.
 
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