Endless questions about Spurs authenticity are joyless

Discussion in 'Spurs Chat' started by Gaz_Gammon, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. Lighty64

    Lighty64 Glory Glory

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    the thing is winning an FA Cup or the Carabao Cup will not keep the players we need to keep, or interest top players to us. The only player I honestly see us keeping providing we keep in the top 4 is Kane, unless we can up the wages of the whole squad.

    yes others from this amazing squad will leave before him, but it won't be because we don't win 1 of those cups, it will be because they will be offered more money to go somewhere like Barca or RM, where they will get the best of all worlds "double their wages, win trophies and regularly play in the CL".

    out of our squad today I can only see Rose, and possibly Toby joining another PL team, the rest if they go will end up in Spain. though to be honest, if Poch was to move on I believe our squad could be depleted, because I honestly believe everyone of them feel the same as we do about him.
     
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  2. ClonedFromSandrosBeard

    ClonedFromSandrosBeard Member

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    The things you own end up owning you.

    I found that football is much more enjoyable once the constant checking of whose on how many points around tottenham stops. Just watching my team play good football and having great moments to enjoy is enough. A trophy being lifted is a great moment but the next day it is just a memory to enjoy.

    Imagine being one of those sad sack money bag club fans who need to have a trophy to truly enjoy their club. How awful!
     
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  3. Gb160

    Gb160 Aggressivity

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    Winnered.
    I was mocked on here a while back for holding the view that football wasn't about trophies for me, someone even quoted me in their signature as the view was deemed that ridiculous.

    Since Poch took over, barring very few games, I have thoroughly enjoyed watching us play, virtually every single week, win, draw and very occasionally lose...im 39, supported Spurs all my life, and its never really been like that before.
    Dont get me wrong, I wanna win trophies because this manager and our players deserve it, and it might shut the media up for five minutes...ultimately for fans its a good day out and bragging rights for a few days, but little else.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
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  4. tiger666

    tiger666 Large member

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    All of those combined are still 20,000 short of Bluemoon and there are other City forums but, whatever.
     
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  5. Graysonti

    Graysonti Well-Known Member

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    Count did we ?

    Does their membership number include deactivated accounts and so a double count in hand ?

    They don’t sell all their tickets which are priced fairly reasonably from what I’ve read and That’s the key metric in all this.

    No one is going to convince me they have more “game attending”fans.
     
  6. tiger666

    tiger666 Large member

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    I never said they did. This is about media following, not game attending fans.
     
  7. Graysonti

    Graysonti Well-Known Member

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    Then we agree and the facts in front of us speak for themselves and City win
     
  8. Chris Flynn

    Chris Flynn Active Member

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    Thing is the narrative just shifts with us exceeding expectations. If we won the Premier or Champions League this season, it will just switch to/continue as 'Can they keep the team together, the vultures are circling, the squad all want £200k a week or will walk', it wont be 'amazing achievement, could this be the start of a dynasty'
     
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  9. Insomnia

    Insomnia Twisted Firestarter

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    I don't give a flying fuck, I'm just loving our Club, Manager, playing style, Team, even our fans & fucking Wembley these days. Couldn't give a donkeys bollock what the meedja & pundits have to say, no fucks given. COYFS
     
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  10. npearl4spurs

    npearl4spurs Believing Member

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    Leicester winning the title hurt us I think in regards to the media. They don't think it is possible again I guess for someone other than United, City, Chelsea to win it again
     
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  11. Ionman34

    Ionman34 SC Supporter

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    That’s not exactly true though. Honours bring great memories. I can still remember the ‘81 cup final like it was yesterday, wonderful memory. The Cup Winners Cup win on penalties stands out because of the joy and pride that came with it.

    Honours validate and benchmark a great team, Bill Nic’s Glory Glory years are called this because of the honours won. Whilst many would remember the great Football, it stands out because of the honours.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love the way we play, it’s a joy to watch mostly, but honours would underline the play and secure this teams place in history. What I don’t want is this team remembered like Holland, the greatest side to ever win nothing.
     
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  12. Spurger King

    Spurger King can't smile without glue

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    Holland won the 1988 European Championship, but I agree with the rest of your post.
     
  13. Gb160

    Gb160 Aggressivity

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    It's true for me mate, it might not be true for you.
    You might need the validation of a cup, my memories are enough for me.
    My main worry is that we have players and a manager that are good enough to be winning the biggest prizes, and if they can't achieve that with us they will, eventually, seek to do so elsewhere. So really any urge I have to win trophies is tied to the hope that it will let us keep our best players and manager together at Tottenham, not for validation from the media/rivals/history books etc...I honestly couldn't give a hoot about those.
     
  14. Ionman34

    Ionman34 SC Supporter

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    That was the team with Gullitt, Van Basten eat al. I’m talking about the Cruyff team that could and should have won everything but won nothing.
     
  15. Ionman34

    Ionman34 SC Supporter

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    Fair enough. What I will ask though is how old are you? I ask this to gauge how far back you can remember of Spurs performances and what the standouts were for you.

    I go back to the 70’s, but only really started going in earnest in 1980 when I turned 12, got a paper round and spent it all at WHL. I witnessed the rise of the great Burkinshaw side that played some wonderful Football.

    What do I remember of that side? The standout matches? Always at the forefront are the final wins because they’re landmark events that stick in the memory. I remember very little of the rest of the seasons around the trophy wins as they’re not landmark.
    The teams greatness is validated by the honours it attains, else Bill Nic would be a footnote rather than the level to aspire towards. Like it or not, this is an unmitigated truth. Burkinshaw’s Spurs is remembered because of the FA Cup and European trophies moreso than the style of Football. The trophies validated the quality of the team and entrenched the memories of it.

    I don’t belittle your viewpoint and share your enjoyment of the way we play, but personal experience tells me that the honours entrench the memories over the long term.

    Now I’m no Glory hunter. I’m on record here as stating that I’m prepared to wait another 10 years for a trophy if it means that we establish ourselves amongst the elite. But this is the truth as I see it, a good brand of Football is lovely to witness in the short term, but this team will be a footnote without the validation of honours, and the only memories we’ll have in the long run will be after watching reruns on tv, rather than golden memories of Glory Glory years, and the trophies being lifted.

    I truly hope you have the opportunity to experience that and, in retrospect, can look back and say, “ you know what, he was right.”
     
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  16. Gb160

    Gb160 Aggressivity

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    I'm 39 mate, born in 78 so I missed all that good stuff, or more I was too young to remember !
    Im slghtly jealous of fans like yourself who've experienced real quality sides and trophies together, but it just seems a growing number of fans have this quite blinkered view that trophies equals success while everything else equals complete and utter failure...to me success isn't as binary as that.
    Maybe you're right and trophies will change the way I feel, as it's probably the only way we'll be able to keep this manager and players together at Tottenham.
     
  17. Ionman34

    Ionman34 SC Supporter

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    TBH, I think the type of fan you refer to are those that are in it for the bragging rights though, to a point, I can understand their viewpoint. For decades we’ve had to suffer the smug self aggrandisement of opposition “fans” who only started following their team because they were successful at the time, lording it over “little Spurs” because of our years in the wilderness. We’re within touching distance of the Glory they crave so that they can dish it out after taking so much flack for so many years. They want Glory for all the wrong reasons.

    For me, the Glory is about the memories it will leave me with. I want to remember this team the way my Dad remembers Bill Nic’s sides. Whenever he talks about them he becomes animated, his face lights up whenever he talks about them. My bed time stories never involved fairy tales or those other stories, I got the stories of Blanchflower and Mackay, how we nicked a draw against Crewe then smashed them 13-2 in the replay, how we whacked Rangers for 5 in the European Cup when they were regarded as one of the biggest names in Europe, how Mackay broke his leg twice in a row then tore into a tackle on his second return like the previous 2 breaks never happened. And the joy of seeing us take the greatest honours playing the best Football England had ever seen up to that point. Joy of the honours because of how it made him feel, not for the bragging rights.

    My kids are grown up now but, whilst they’re not into Football, they’re Spurs because I told them the stories of our FA Cup wins, THAT goal by Ricky Villa (I was behind the goal when he buried it), Garth Crooks’ joy when he scored his goal, the UEFA Cup win (not cup winners cup as I wrote earlier) with Tony Parkes running away in ecstasy as we won on penalties. They loved seeing my face light up recalling those wonderful memories.

    I want to do this with my Grandkids when they come, regaling them with stories of the Glory years under Poch where we swept away all comers and built a dynasty. Letting them share in the joy of my memories.

    Other fans don’t even feature, bragging rights are not even considered.

    Plus I’d love for my old man to experience that joy again before he pops his clogs.

    Golden memories are really what makes this game so special IMO, and it’s about time we started experiencing them again.
     
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  18. Ironskullll

    Ironskullll Well-Known Member

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    For me, the big nights were the Wolves, Feyenoord and Anderlecht European finals. I was too young for the Atletico Madrid final, but it's still part of our folklore, so I have a lot of empathy with where you're coming from. The really stand out games in my memories are the great European nights, even when we lost, such as the 72 UEFA semi against a rising Liverpool. However, the League Cup wins against Aston Villa and Norwich in the 70s were, for me even then, not much more than footnotes and only seemed to underline the fact that we weren't good enough to win the big ones. As for the LCFs since then, well they're even more insignificant. Sadly, the FA Cup has gone the same way. Whereas in the 60s, 70s and 80s we did seem to be a cup team, there was always the feeling that that was because we weren't good enough for the league, and when we did have good teams capable of challenging for the league we did so often seem to fall between stools in seasons where we played 70 or so games.

    Much of this is linked of course, to finances. The question always asked is whether we can sustain our model of paying players so much less than our competitors do. That's the wrong question. The questions should be 1) For how long can our competitors continue to pay exorbitant wages, particularly those such as WHU with one or two marquee players earning way more than the rest of their squads; 2) For how long can our competitors continue to place their faith in hugely expensive, even by their standards, signing such as Pogba, Morata and others, when even the successful ones seem to require at least a season to bed in; 3) For how long can the same teams afford to carry players earning huge salaries but who have fallen down the pecking order on long contracts, eg Rooney last year; 4) How long will it take for Spurs using our current model, to bridge that financial gap to the point where we can afford the higher wages our competitors pay; and 5) If and when we ever do bridge that gap, what will be the additional impact of allying that to the financial model the club is already run on, ie long term squad stability, signing replacements years in advance, relying heavily on youth and employing highly performance related contracts.

    Lots of questions, I know, and lots of ifs and buts, but I think the signs are good and that the trophies will follow, of all sorts, though the one I look forward to the most and would trade for, is the PL. And the CL too.
     
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  19. Ionman34

    Ionman34 SC Supporter

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    Back in the day, the FA Cup was virtually on a par with the league for prestige, with the league cup a little way behind, but still a trophy worthy of note. Likewise the UEFA Cup and Cup Winners Cup, whilst not of the same prestige as the European Cup, were still highly sought after as so much quality was involved, as only league champions could compete in the European Cup.

    Sadly this is no longer the case, in our country at least, with the devaluing of every honour except PL and CL. Those “minor cups” are now just as has been described, a nice day out but not really that prestigious. The Glory is now confined to Winning the PL or CL, so fewer get the chance to share in any Glory.

    But I agree with you 100%. I’d love to win the CL, but the PL would be the ultimate prize for me, it’s the Holy Grail.
     
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  20. ardiles

    ardiles Well-Known Member

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    Agree. The ‘74 (with Cruyff) and ‘78 (post Cruyff), sides, were arguably, better than the ‘88 side.
     

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