Endless questions about Spurs authenticity are joyless

Matty miller

Active Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2016
Messages
189
#81
I take everything as a complement. They are scared they know we’re on the brink. It might take another 3-4 years. We might lose 1-2 players along the way but it’s coming and they all know it. The Liverpool/Man U biased pundits all know it.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Joined
Dec 7, 2006
Messages
7,570
#82
We've had some great players,
make you own list
but few great sides.
Sum less than its parts syndrome.
Now we have a young team
that is greater than the sum of its parts.

It's a Magical Mystery Tour.
Enjoy the ride.
 

Phomesy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2013
Messages
4,260
#83
We've had some great players,
make you own list
but few great sides.
Sum less than its parts syndrome.
Now we have a young team
that is greater than the sum of its parts.

It's a Magical Mystery Tour.
Enjoy the ride.
Longest Haiku ever?
 

Lighty64

Glory Glory
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
5,925
#85
Fair enough. What I will ask though is how old are you? I ask this to gauge how far back you can remember of Spurs performances and what the standouts were for you.

I go back to the 70’s, but only really started going in earnest in 1980 when I turned 12, got a paper round and spent it all at WHL. I witnessed the rise of the great Burkinshaw side that played some wonderful Football.

What do I remember of that side? The standout matches? Always at the forefront are the final wins because they’re landmark events that stick in the memory. I remember very little of the rest of the seasons around the trophy wins as they’re not landmark.
The teams greatness is validated by the honours it attains, else Bill Nic would be a footnote rather than the level to aspire towards. Like it or not, this is an unmitigated truth. Burkinshaw’s Spurs is remembered because of the FA Cup and European trophies moreso than the style of Football. The trophies validated the quality of the team and entrenched the memories of it.

I don’t belittle your viewpoint and share your enjoyment of the way we play, but personal experience tells me that the honours entrench the memories over the long term.

Now I’m no Glory hunter. I’m on record here as stating that I’m prepared to wait another 10 years for a trophy if it means that we establish ourselves amongst the elite. But this is the truth as I see it, a good brand of Football is lovely to witness in the short term, but this team will be a footnote without the validation of honours, and the only memories we’ll have in the long run will be after watching reruns on tv, rather than golden memories of Glory Glory years, and the trophies being lifted.

I truly hope you have the opportunity to experience that and, in retrospect, can look back and say, “ you know what, he was right.”
I started going in the 70's too, though my 1st ever was in 74, the trouble now is compared to the 70's 80's our most consistent era since I followed Spurs in being in the running for cups and even the league, but now days it's not the same at all. bar Leicester's freak season the teams that have won anything either bought it, or just been a big club that did it the right way (grrrrr Arse after Wenger 1st joined, consistant for 10 yrs).

football is so different now and it's more a business, all about money and hoping the rich boys trip up. Football changed at the exact wrong time for us, just as we were facing bankruptcy the Premier league, and sky money came into it, UEFA change the structure of their cup comps at a time we as a nation was banned from Europe. even silly things like changing and allowing 3 subs with 7 players sitting on the bench has strengthen the rich boys powers (7 players sitting on the bench and still being paid stupid wages) and allowing you to have a bench that covers every position (in the 80's if your keeper got injured or sent off, you had players like Hoddle between the post).

like today in the 80's I used to look forwards to our next match the minute one game finished in every comp (though due to mobility issues it's via the TV and crap streaming), only difference now is every comp is a lot harder to win, making trophies a lot harder to win now days, and unfortunately because of the money involved in getting a top 4 finish it has devalued the domestic cups so bad that when a team is in a position of getting there, teams don't play their strongest team.

yes I'd be very happy if we could win any trophy, but not at the expense of hopefully winning the League, and because we have had a small chance the last few seasons we have suffered competing for the domestic cups bar losing last season, last seasons FA Cup semi's I believe would of been so different if Rose had been fit, and Walker hadn't fell out with Poch.

the trouble with the media is 99% of them either played for or follow the top 5 clubs in the money list, and they do not like us doing it the way we are, and say what they say because deep down they are jealous.

what will need to change is we will have to start paying our players nearer to what they can earn at other teams, and on the field hopefully get lucky in the fixture in cups that allows us to be able to rotate. not being funny but if we are as good as cemented for top 4, but no chance of catching the team at the top (unless that's us) and we are in the quarters of the FA Cup we will be able to field a team capable, but CL is important to take into the new stadium, and will be till it's paid off.
 

pook

Active Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
330
#86
I really don't get folks having issues with the media. we are in a position that runs counter to the accepted narrative of modern football. Us being in that position brings with it quite rational questions that simply cannot be answered until ... er ... until they are answered.

When Leicester City were pissing the League a couple seasons back, the press - after rightly praising them to the heavens - kept asking, 'but can they keep it up? can they sustain it?' And I remember loads of LCFC fans moaning and moaning about it, as though folks should just dwell on the praising bit and ignore the (frankly obvious) question. Well, in the end, Ranieri's squad answered them, so fair enough. But in the meantime, Leicester fans saying 'we're for real! stop questioning if we're for real!' - right though they may have been - was never going to be the definitive answer. The team had to prove it.

So it is with us. Levy, Pochettino, and his team get no less praise than they deserve - we are broadly admired, and rightly so. But for all our improvement, the question as to whether we'll win anything is still out there - and it will remain out there until we do. Wishing that others would stop asking it won't make it any different. Are we going to win something? I want to know, myself. Even if we don't, I will have loved what we've done under Poch. But the question is still there - and it won't be answered until it's answered.
 

shelfmonkey

It's all codswallop
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
5,098
#87
I really don't get folks having issues with the media. we are in a position that runs counter to the accepted narrative of modern football. Us being in that position brings with it quite rational questions that simply cannot be answered until ... er ... until they are answered.

When Leicester City were pissing the League a couple seasons back, the press - after rightly praising them to the heavens - kept asking, 'but can they keep it up? can they sustain it?' And I remember loads of LCFC fans moaning and moaning about it, as though folks should just dwell on the praising bit and ignore the (frankly obvious) question. Well, in the end, Ranieri's squad answered them, so fair enough. But in the meantime, Leicester fans saying 'we're for real! stop questioning if we're for real!' - right though they may have been - was never going to be the definitive answer. The team had to prove it.

So it is with us. Levy, Pochettino, and his team get no less praise than they deserve - we are broadly admired, and rightly so. But for all our improvement, the question as to whether we'll win anything is still out there - and it will remain out there until we do. Wishing that others would stop asking it won't make it any different. Are we going to win something? I want to know, myself. Even if we don't, I will have loved what we've done under Poch. But the question is still there - and it won't be answered until it's answered.
Fair enough, but, Leicester, nor any other club has had the media constantly and consistently touting their best players and manager to all the top clubs in Europe, Klopp has done sweet fa at Liverpool compared to what Poch has done at Spurs, but all he gets are accolades, you never here the media saying 'Liverpool must win something or else all their best players will leave and so will Klopp!'
 

Lighty64

Glory Glory
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
5,925
#88
Fair enough, but, Leicester, nor any other club has had the media constantly and consistently touting their best players and manager to all the top clubs in Europe, Klopp has done sweet fa at Liverpool compared to what Poch has done at Spurs, but all he gets are accolades, you never here the media saying 'Liverpool must win something or else all their best players will leave and so will Klopp!'
that's because the majority of the media now days are ex Liverpool, or they follow Liverpool, plus some of their lower earners are still on more money than our top 1's
 

pook

Active Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
330
#89
Fair enough, but, Leicester, nor any other club has had the media constantly and consistently touting their best players and manager to all the top clubs in Europe, Klopp has done sweet fa at Liverpool compared to what Poch has done at Spurs, but all he gets are accolades, you never here the media saying 'Liverpool must win something or else all their best players will leave and so will Klopp!'
I dunno. I remember loads of pundits saying Leicester would struggle to hold onto the likes of Mahrez and Vardy in the summer following their title. I also remember LC fans bemoaning the fact.

I suppose you may be right about Liverpool/Klopp, but then, I don't know that they've got as many players as likely to turn heads at the behemoths as we do. I do recall there being a lot of stuff about Coutinho to Barca during the window. But then again, Liverpool fans tend to be so delusional about their 'pull' that they probably don't sweat that folks might prefer the likes of li'l ol' 13-times champions of Europe, Madrid. I don't pretend to know.

Anyway, all I can say is that I'm not terribly bothered about folks asking the questions. All of these players are going to hear the voices of agents, family members, etc. - people of influence (and who stand to profit by a player's bigger contract) - all the time. I really can't see any of them saying, 'that's it! ... Ian Wright says it's time to go. I'm off.'

At any rate, Walker's decision and Rose's comments make it perfectly clear that the questions are there, whether they are articulated or not. I suppose it would be nicer if folks just didn't bring it up, so fair enough. But they seem like rational enough queries, to my thinking.
 

shelfmonkey

It's all codswallop
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
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5,098
#90
that's because the majority of the media now days are ex Liverpool, or they follow Liverpool, plus some of their lower earners are still on more money than our top 1's
So what is the narrative? Spurs need to win trophies or Spurs need to pay the players more?
 

shelfmonkey

It's all codswallop
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
5,098
#91
I dunno. I remember loads of pundits saying Leicester would struggle to hold onto the likes of Mahrez and Vardy in the summer following their title. I also remember LC fans bemoaning the fact.

I suppose you may be right about Liverpool/Klopp, but then, I don't know that they've got as many players as likely to turn heads at the behemoths as we do. I do recall there being a lot of stuff about Coutinho to Barca during the window. But then again, Liverpool fans tend to be so delusional about their 'pull' that they probably don't sweat that folks might prefer the likes of li'l ol' 13-times champions of Europe, Madrid. I don't pretend to know.

Anyway, all I can say is that I'm not terribly bothered about folks asking the questions. All of these players are going to hear the voices of agents, family members, etc. - people of influence (and who stand to profit by a player's bigger contract) - all the time. I really can't see any of them saying, 'that's it! ... Ian Wright says it's time to go. I'm off.'

At any rate, Walker's decision and Rose's comments make it perfectly clear that the questions are there, whether they are articulated or not. I suppose it would be nicer if folks just didn't bring it up, so fair enough. But they seem like rational enough queries, to my thinking.
Walker and Rose's actions and comments say more about them than anything else.
 

Lighty64

Glory Glory
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
5,925
#92
So what is the narrative? Spurs need to win trophies or Spurs need to pay the players more?
to be honest I don't know. if we started winning trophies tomorrow the media will bang on that our players should be on more money, once the they are on money it will still be they need trophies, until we are doing both no one knows, but most probably will then go onto reporting that we still can't match what RM, Barca, Chelsea, Manch clubs and PSG pay.
 

shelfmonkey

It's all codswallop
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
5,098
#93
to be honest I don't know. if we started winning trophies tomorrow the media will bang on that our players should be on more money, once the they are on money it will still be they need trophies, until we are doing both no one knows, but most probably will then go onto reporting that we still can't match what RM, Barca, Chelsea, Manch clubs and PSG pay.
Because we're not one of the 'establishment', shall we say, we'll always be in a no win situation regarding the media, imo.
 

pook

Active Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
330
#94
So what is the narrative? Spurs need to win trophies or Spurs need to pay the players more?
I think it's that we need to do one or the other. And I get (and agree) that should we accomplish one, we'll still end up getting questions about the other. But the fundamental question that I seem to be hearing is 'how long can Spurs keep their best players without providing either silverware or top money?'; the presumption being that players of ambition are going to be motivated by, if not both, at least one of these.

... or maybe it's just what I keep asking myself. For the record, I absolutely love the degree of success that Levy's/Poch's model for retention has provided thus far - Walker's move and Rose's comments notwithstanding.

I also think that to some extent, the question is a direct consequence of Harry's initial answer to why he's not shown interest in any of the offers he could surely provoke, if so inclined. He's said that he loves to be here and that as long as the club's aspirations match his own, this is where he wants to be ( :love::love::love: ). But he's also said that his aspirations revolve around trophies - lots and lots of them. So what does that mean? That Harry needs to be somewhere that he can win lots and lots of trophies? Or that Harry needs to be somewhere that aspires (as he does) to win lots and lots of trophies? And on which counts does Spurs qualify?

Anyone saying that Harry Kane needs to move on can f*ck right off, to my mind. But wondering doesn't seem that irrational to me. And however distasteful one may find it, expecting the speculation to go away (if, in fact, anyone is) rather does.
 

kitchen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Messages
1,997
#95
I just find it all depressing. I grew up in an era when the national team was the biggest deal in football. Winning the world cup was the pinnacle of any career.

Currently as spurs fans we all support the team that has an abundance of home grown talent, a manager that develops players and we're the club that comfortably contributes the most to the national cause. Had we been like this in the 80s or 90s our fan base and media support would be huge.

And yet instead of the media lauding us for this, all they can do is obsess over money and whether or not we'll hang on to our players. I love football as a sport but there's no honour, no expectation of loyalty, and it's overrun by greed. That's what it's sadly become. It's about buying success and instant gratification - which is why the millennials with their sense of entitlement will all flock to support chelsea, city and the super rich, and the pundits will continue to encourage buying success.
 

spursfan77

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Joined
Aug 13, 2005
Messages
15,772
#96
To take a quote from this: "Spurs shouldn’t live in a consequence-free world and certainly receive enough praise to soften periodic criticism, but rarely before has a team existed in such a perpetual state of assessment."

Are we missing something here. Maybe we as fans need to realise this is how its always been for Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea. A loss puts them under massive scrutiny. Now was are a top class team, we are now under this high level of scrutiny too?

The media expect us to win every game now. So when we don't, we will get hammered for it.
 

bk75

Active Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
260
#97
An excellent article. The author is absolutely spot on. It's a shame a few of you have missed his point. All this 'they've got to win something or else it's meaningless' is complete and utter bollocks. Craig Bellamy explained it perfectly. He said WE ARE WINNING. Wigan won the FA Cup recently. Does that make them more successful than Spurs? It must do as they've won more FA cups than us in the last 25 years. And I wouldn't swap clubs with any Leicester fan either despite their trophy cabinet being bigger than ours recently.

We used to be happy getting in the top 6, then celebrated getting into the top 4 the odd season. We've now finished 3rd, and 2nd. We're going to be close again. We've qualified for the CL 2 seasons running. We've qualified from the so called group of death in the CL with 2 games to spare. Remember all the other fans and pundits when we got drawn in that group. Oh how they laughed. Now apparently it's meaningless if we don't win it!

Every time we succeed at doing something all the pundits, media and other fans said we couldn't do, their only response is 'but have they won anything yet'. Oh fuck off already!

Our points total last season would've won the PL 8 times in seasons gone by. 8 fucking times!!! When Arsenal were winning PL titles it was a 2 horse race between them and Utd each season. Then the Russian mafia took over at Chelsea and now we have an oil rich nation funding Man City. How many titles have Arsenal won since these teams emerged? And don't forget every time we started to build a team back then Fergie would come and buy our best players and put us back years again. They can't do that now.

But now we're trying to finish above 3 financially doped teams. Teams that think nothing of spending half a billion on players a season. We also have Arsenal and Liverpool with far more financial resources than us. We finished above them all 2 seasons ago and above them all last season bar Chelsea who had no European football.

If we win a trophy great. It's not how I measure this team. For me it's a miracle we can compete at this level at all and each time we do we are winning.

If I could winner this, I would a million times over. Spot on.
 
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