Thats a Grim 11.
Why no Gareth Barry for Phil Neville???

Also, What must Defoe be thinking... the poor guys confidence must be shot... :bang:

Dont hold much hope for that side v Spain although Dyers back in form and could cause em problems.

Robo wont be too disapointed because its a friendly but if Foster has a blinder it might start looking over his shoulder and make him buck up a bit.

Agree about Defoe but McClaren has seen our form of late.

Whats with the bugs at Spurs, Teemu throat and Lennon stomach.

I have neither the time or the inclination to address my disdain at the team selection and formation McClaren has chosen against Spain. What I will say though, is how terrible it is we've ended up with this Eriksson clone-FA puppet-Blair Esque spin doctor employing=Muppet in charge of our national side.

We're not going to win fuck all whilst under the 'guidance' of this man. We should've given the job to Martin O'Neill when he wanted it.

It's been proven Lampard and Gerrard can't play in the same team, so why persist in this pointless system.

To quote Joey Barton (who I would love at Spurs):

"It's not up to me to start shouting my mouth off but I'd love to be involved with England," he says.

"I'm not the best player in the world but I wouldn't be going along for the ride like some players seem to do. You know, train a couple of days, wear the tracksuit but just shrug your shoulders when you're told you're not playing.

"I wouldn't be like Lampard or Gerrard, who are superstars at their clubs and want the limelight when they play for England. If there were two balls on the pitch, then I think England would be successful but, the fact is, it's been proven they don't work together.

"If they want somebody to do the crap jobs for them, then I'd like to think I was capable of doing that. Win the ball back, give it to either one of them and let them pull the strings - that's fine by me."

Love him or loathe him, he speaks his mind - and he would've battled to the end in WC2006 unlike Lampard who did absolutely FUCK all.

McClaren should've started with Barton and Gerrard in midfield with Lampard on the bench. What better way to get a magnificent performance from Lampard in an England shirt the next time he walks onto the pitch for our country....and I'm SURE he would respond.

IT IS, too much of a private gentleman's club. They KNOW they're going to be selected no matter how poorly they play.
It's become a farce. Scolari has a reputation for dropping ANYONE if they fail to perform, god how we need someone like that. We WILL NOT win anything until we have a manager who really gets tough with the troops and isn't afraid to drop the big names. (Dropping Beckham was to give, McClaren himself. a name.)

Wright Phillips to start???? Phil Neville a guys he's worked with for years, a guy thats played with Ferdinand and his brother for years and must know possibly everything there is to know about, over the chance to put a hungry Barry alongside some of the best defenders in England and he see how he fares....anyway I said I wasn't going to go into team selection so I won't! Just my two cents...

The amount of people I know that have had some sort of bug recently is phenomenal. Whether you're Joe Public, a professional footballer or a Bernard Matthew's turkey! It's everywhere. I've never known a winter like it. I think it's just par for the course like the rest of us.

Nothing of the kind has been "proven" and you haven't looked closely enough at the team selection.

What's been demonstrated many times over is that Lampard and Gerrard do not work well as a central midfield pair, because both like to attack and having to make constant decisions over which one should defend and which should attack slows them down to the detriment of the team

But they haven't been picked for this game as a central midfield pair. Carrick will be playing the defensive midfielder role, so either Lampard and Gerrard will be playing centrally and in front of him, with licence to attack when they feel like it, or (more likely) Gerrard will be deployed on one flank, probably the left, with Dyer and Lampard as attacking central midfielders.

Neither of these formations would cause the problems that we have had before with Lampard and Gerrard getting their roles confused.

That said, I also think that neither of these formations is likely to be particularly effective against Spain, unless Crouch has one of his unplayable days - and I've never seen him do that playing as a lone striker, a role to which he is curiously unsuited.

The other possibility is that we will use Crouch to knock the ball down and hold it up, with Lampard, Dyer and Gerrard hurtling into the box. That might work...

Anyway, there is no reason why Lampard and Gerrard cannot work together, provided they are not given the kind of conflicting roles that Eriksson inflicted upon them.

I think we really needed to totally cut the cord when it came to Eriksson but with McClaren still there I just sense the same old England......brilliant in parts, awful in others.......bit like Spurs really.

As for starting Neville over Barry.......what a shocker. Neville isn't a bad prem player but if Barry was ever worth a shout in the problem position then it must be now.

I can't argue about him dropping Robinson. Fosters had a great season and if I was Jol I'd seriously consider doing the same. Great keeper but poor season so far. Lets hope it's a blip of form on his part........long blip though. This might be the 'shock' he needs.

Fair enough points Davidmatzdorf. I'm pretty sure we played Gerrard and Lampard together with a defensive midfielder against Croatia. Though Gerrard may have played on the right, I'm not sure. Maybe a Chelsea formation would suit them best, afterall - Gerrard was close to signing with Chelsea and you can bet your bottom dollar if that had gone through in 2005 they'd have been ripping up defenses for the last year and a half. So yeah maybe they can play together.

Of course I'd love to see Dawson start for England, and he does deserve a shot but being unbias I guess Woodgate deserves a start - he's been out of the frame for years - and he's worked hard for this comeback, so I wouldn't begrudge him that.

At least Cole and Campbell won't be on the pitch tommorow, two players I hate to cheer on - even in an England shirt.

Come on England!!!! How I long to have my faith restored in the national side!!

I have to I'm not really bothered about the England team at all, it's an unwanted distraction as far as I'm concerned...I'm sure I wasn't the only one to notice that since the squad has been announced Defoe and to an extent Lennon haven't been at their best, not really trying - perhaps trying to avoid injuries???

Defoe against Utd was embarrassing - he really does play for 'Team Defoe', if only he could see that one of the main reasons Rooney is light years ahead of him is his desire to give his all in every game....

I'm happy that all of our players are getting a rest, and perhaps will be a wake up call to Robinson et al that shit form for your club means that Man Utd's third choice keeper will take your place....and who can honestly say he doesn't deserve it?

Glad Lennon pulled out TBH!!!

The England setup just makes me laugh - its fucking crap. I really couldnt care less about them when the people in charge make wank decisions over and over again.

foster deserves his chance, robbo needs to have a look at himself otherwise foster will have his shirt as he's having a blinding season.

Glad to see woodgate fit again and in the team because on his day he is as good as terry, ferdinand, king.

IMO it was too soon to reintroduce dyer back into the XI. he should be weaned back into internationa football gradually.

Joey Barton deserves a cap, i hope he comes on.

poor old gareth barry what MORE does he need to do to get a game!!!!

foster

neville, ferdinand, woodgate, carragher

gerrard, carrick, lampard, barry

crouch, defoe

View from the other side!

Speaking from the other side of the fence here the Spanish squad is perhaps one of the on-going mysteries of world football. On paper it has for many years been amongst the best in Europe and dare i say the world. However, as we know our plucky lads have shown a great desire to get on the first plane home probably as they are missing mama's Paella. But shooting oneself in the foot is a custom so typically Spanish that here little is now expected from La Selección in major tournaments these days.

The squad under Aragones is a strange one and one that in the words of Joaquín ´is a team in crisis who have a manager unable to resolve the problems´. Joaquín is one of the best right-wingers around who made Cashley Cole look a mug the last time the two team played but for reasons best known to El Mister (Aragones) has been deemed surplus to requirements.

Raúl seems to have suffered from the same thing as beckham for his country even though he is about as loyal and influential a leader as any national side could have. This in itself has caused great debate and tension here. Here, some players are effectively the country and Raúl is one.

Following the most recent games Aragones has attempted to resign from his post as he believes he can offer no more but each time La Federación has not accepted it. As a result, the squad is effectively in limbo.

The threats to England are definitely Morientes, Torres and David Villa. Torres is a player who´s reputation in England far exceeds his talent but nevertheless is a useful player to have. Villa on the otherhand is not well known but is an outstanding finisher and as valencia have seen one of the very best strikers in Europe at the moment. He is quick, skilllful and has a decent shot on him too. Morientes has been on fire this season thanks in part to his partnership with Villa at valencia and is not the player we saw at Liverpool. It is likely that Spain will start with Morientes and Villa upfront with Torres on the bench.

Sadly one of my favourites, Vicente of Valencia is missing due to yet another injury. He is a left'winger with skill pace and tricks but as an injury record that would make Darren Anderton blush.

The leadership comes from Puyol which always amazes me as he is as Catalan as Butifarra (a local sausage) and as they will tell you Catalunya is not Spain. So breaking with tradition, we have a regional player with a sense of national pride. I should add to this for those who don´t know, during the winter breaks here virtually every region in Spain has it´s own national team playing against other countries. eg Andalucia versus Bulgaria and this is regarded by many here as the future for Spain as the many regions feel a local identity way before a national one (if at all).

Casillas will be in goal but he has had a difficult season as have all the Madrid players but players like Sergio Ramos don´t compare with their predecessor like Hierro I am afraid.

The Midfield is likely to be Capdevila, Albelda, Xavi, Angulo, Silva. Xavi and Silva are the best out of the bunch but noteable absentees from this starting line up are the two most accustomed to English football i.e. Cesc (no one calls him Fabregas here) and Xavi Alonso. The rationale for this ... well I don´t know especially when Cesc in particular has had a growing influence on the side in recent games.

So all in all its a Spanish side in crisis. Bad recent results, a manager who has lost the support of key players and who seems able to pick a weak side inspite of the riches he has at his disposal. I would like to see Spain win but I think it will be England who get the result.

Thank you Juan for your insightful analysis of Spain and the problems there in.

I believe they are the great under achievers of international football, not England. Always qualifying effortlessly for the big tournaments then getting eliminated at the first hurdle when so much is expected of them. At least England have made the quarters on a regular basis. That's nothing to cheer about though.

Well one good thing from this lineup is that we all know that Mclaren are trying new players and new system, which will help England in the long run.

The frustrating thing about Sven was that he played the same way every time and when it doesn't work, he has nothing to fall back on.

No he didn't. He played certain players in every formation he tried, but he experimented constantly with 4-5-1, flat 4-4-2, diamond-midfield 4-4-2 and even 3-5-2 setups.

I vividly recall England supporters bitterly criticising Eriksson, as recently as the buildup to the 2006 World Cup, for refusing to settle on a formation and stick to it.

Personally, I think this is a no-win situation for every England manager, but that doesn't affect the fact that Eriksson's sides did not "play the same way every time".

I think it's an interesting shape for the team, and suits the personnel. Whatever people say, Gerrard and Lampard ARE our best central midfielders, capable of winning games on their own. We don't have two (or arguably even one) fit striker of international class.

It's the formation I always felt we should have played at the World Cup.

But I don't know what we'd do if Rooney was fit. He's just not a player who fits in a 4-5-1. So this strikes me as a Plan B, which is all well and good - but what's our Plan A?

Interesting, I was thinking about skipping this game anyway, no spurs player will even start so I that's made my mind up!

Even though I hate Barton, his comments are spot on. Lampard needs to be dropped and you do get the impression a lot of players don't want to get their hands dirty when playing for england

Yeah I think you're right they don't want to get their hands dirty.

They sit down with their accountants at the end of the year just like Joe Bloggs the plumber, or John Smith the carpenter. They probably stand to lose over a million pounds in appearance, assist, and goal bonuses with their respective clubs if they get crocked whilst playing for England. You can't doubt that this goes through their minds, when after all:-

If you earn 80,000 a week, get offered 100,000, want 110,000 a grand a week, and haggle (for months) for an extra 10,000 a week (when you already have MILLIONS in your bank account Mr Rio Ferdinand) - I'm sure something as superficial as picking up club bonuses when PLAYING FOR ENGLAND does cross their minds.

What a shite performance tonight. Even we (SPURS) show'd more fight in the last few games than these over-paid bunch of donkeys did tonight!! Absolutely pathetic. I can't believe they'll pick up a multi-thousand pound pay cheque for that dross we witnessed tonight. Beyond a joke.

Well done boys. Enjoy your night out in Manchester tonight, but whilst your racking up the £20,000 bar bill you already 'earned' the money to more than cover tonight, try and give the 70,000 people who came out in the cold and wet to support their country at Old Trafford, just a little thought. :clap: :evil: