England -v- Croatia

[joey55]

Wait, you said Croatia have clearly better players than England, but with a top coach like Jol, England could suddenly have a chance of winning the WC?

Yes. Arsenal clearly had far better players than us, but we still earned more points per game than them over a 2 year period when King was fit. The same can be said of Liverpool last season. Sometimes a coach can make all the difference. Greece won the Euro Championships with one of the worst sides in the tournament.

 

[wizzywig27]

Hate to say it but as an Englishman I'm glad we are out, I'm bored shitless with everybody blaming the manager, yes, granted he's not the greatest and his tactics leave alot to be desired, but where are these brilliant eleven English players that are not being picked? He's by and large playing the best players available to us, they are simply nowhere near good enough, no technique no geniune footballing ability.

Our league is very good, but this is due to the foreign quality players, I hope this obsession some have of wanting us to buy quality young English players is stopped, where not good enough and unless the F.A do something dramatic we'll have a very long wait for a decent national side. Not one British isle side represented at the Euros and we invented the sport, what a joke.

wholeheartedly agree 100%

we were turd tonight, absolute joke :violin:

 

[glennyhoddle]

Where was Robbo tonight????

They had the whole squad there including the injured players. I thought for defo they'd get at least one shot of him if he was there!!

anyone else think there was a bust up after McLaren told him Carson would start??? Very suprised that he wasn't there at all!!!

 

[Green Samot]

Where was Robbo tonight????

They had the whole squad there including the injured players. I thought for defo they'd get at least one shot of him if he was there!!

anyone else think there was a bust up after McLaren told him Carson would start??? Very suprised that he wasn't there at all!!!

Not sure if there was a bust up as such, but I bet he was pissed off. Not surprised he did one after not making the bench.

 

[SpurSince57]

Where was Robbo tonight????

They had the whole squad there including the injured players. I thought for defo they'd get at least one shot of him if he was there!!

anyone else think there was a bust up after McLaren told him Carson would start??? Very suprised that he wasn't there at all!!!

Probably the Cock and Dragon in Cockfosters.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

Yes. Arsenal clearly had far better players than us, but we still earned more points per game than them over a 2 year period when King was fit. The same can be said of Liverpool last season. Sometimes a coach can make all the difference. Greece won the Euro Championships with one of the worst sides in the tournament.

That and the fact that the team was together prepring for the tournament for about 2 months before any other team. Most teams had hardly any break, Greece were like a club side by then.

 

[yid_born_n_bred]

Not sure if there was a bust up as such, but I bet he was pissed off. Not surprised he did one after not making the bench.

There was a shot of him. I remember, he was wearing some garish gold watch, and i thought flash wanker.

 

[yid_born_n_bred]

In addtion, unitl an english manager manages one of the top four with relative success, i.e. trophies, then england will succeed in nothing. Our managers cqant come from wigan, middlesborough, bolton etc. They have no experience of taking a team on tough cup or league campaign with success.

Forget foreign players, it's down to foreign managers.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Hate to say it but as an Englishman I'm glad we are out, I'm bored shitless with everybody blaming the manager, yes, granted he's not the greatest and his tactics leave alot to be desired, but where are these brilliant eleven English players that are not being picked? He's by and large playing the best players available to us, they are simply nowhere near good enough, no technique no geniune footballing ability.

Our league is very good, but this is due to the foreign quality players, I hope this obsession some have of wanting us to buy quality young English players is stopped, where not good enough and unless the F.A do something dramatic we'll have a very long wait for a decent national side. Not one British isle side represented at the Euros and we invented the sport, what a joke.

Good call N10-17
my sentiments entirely, although I was born an Irishman my kids are all English. I'm ferkin gutted tonight but maybe the superstars will come good - ???

 

[Mullers]

Hansen got it right England deserved everything they got. Every time Croatia went forward they looked like they were going to score. They were better than us in every department. And their players cost a fraction of the cost of english players. People talk about Gerrard being world class, I can't remember one brilliant or great game he has had for England. To be world class you have to do at international level, he and a host of other players don't do that.

There as been a lot of talk about too many foreigners in the premiership but they are here because they are cheaper and because English players are just not up to standard.

 

[SpurSince57]

McClown seems to be the classic example of a man promoted above his abilities. He was obviously a good assistant to Fergie at United, and that, maybe, is where he should have stayed. But it's not his fault he was given the England job. The entire blazer brigade at the FA should be cleared out, root and branch.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Some interesting views as usual. England have had the same problem for years and years. People are picked because of who they are, not how they play together.

Bilic gave a fantastic interview after the game on sky when he said "England didn't loose the game because of the (poor) first half tactics, and you didn't score two goals in the second half by changing those tactics. You lost the game because we are simply the better side"

He is exactly right. It wasn't switching from 451 to 442 that got England back in the game as their tactics didn't change. They just kept whacking the ball towards Croatia's area.

England lost this game, failed to qualify and have lost every single game that mattered against quality opposition in tournaments because they are fundamentally technically inferior to many other nations and poorly coached. Terry, Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney are fine when it's all about gusto, bravado and gung ho of the premiership. They flourish when a cog in a more talent laden machine at their respective clubs. They provide a different ingredient. But when a collection of that same ingredient is put together without the glue of technical talent they flounder. They become the Watford of international football. Capable of topping the worlds second division by strength but embarrassed (albeit sometimes galantly) when pitted against technicaly superior teams who are better coached as well.

I hope the next manager has the bollocks to change the whole thing. Start picking players that can play together as a team not a collections of big names. I hope he gets England playing football. Proper fucking football. Passing the ball to each other and not just 50 yard hail mary passes.

 

[TheBlueRooster]

Where was Robbo tonight????

They had the whole squad there including the injured players. I thought for defo they'd get at least one shot of him if he was there!!

anyone else think there was a bust up after McLaren told him Carson would start??? Very suprised that he wasn't there at all!!!

He was there, they showed a couple of shots of him, one with his head in his hands ( insert joke here ) and just after the third Croatia goal.

Looking at tonights game it's sems very clear that any 'keeper behind a poor defence is in the shit. All three goals tonight had a similarity about the ones that Robbo has let in recently.

 

[joey55]

That and the fact that the team was together prepring for the tournament for about 2 months before any other team. Most teams had hardly any break, Greece were like a club side by then.

How is that possible? 6 of Greece's starting 11 played for teams in top European Leagues so, they couldn't have been released before the end of the season. I don't see how Greece could have had 2 months of preparation if half their key players were still playing domestic football. Surely they got released from their clubs at the same time as those of the other nations.:shrug:

 

[SpurSince57]

Some interesting views as usual. England have had the same problem for years and years. People are picked because of who they are, not how they play together.

Bilic gave a fantastic interview after the game on sky when he said "England didn't loose the game because of the (poor) first half tactics, and you didn't score two goals in the second half by changing those tactics. You lost the game because we are simply the better side"

He is exactly right. It wasn't switching from 451 to 442 that got England back in the game as their tactics didn't change. They just kept whacking the ball towards Croatia's area.

England lost this game, failed to qualify and have lost every single game that mattered against quality opposition in tournaments because they are fundamentally technically inferior to many other nations and poorly coached. Terry, Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney are fine when it's all about gusto, bravado and gung ho of the premiership. They flourish when a cog in a more talent laden machine at their respective clubs. They provide a different ingredient. But when a collection of that same ingredient is put together without the glue of technical talent they flounder. They become the Watford of international football. Capable of topping the worlds second division by strength but embarrassed (albeit sometimes galantly) when pitted against technicaly superior teams who are better coached as well.

I hope the next manager has the bollocks to change the whole thing. Start picking players that can play together as a team not a collections of big names. I hope he gets England playing football. Proper fucking football. Passing the ball to each other and not just 50 yard hail mary passes.

I'd pretty much agree, although the 4-5-1 (or alleged 4-3-3) was, predictably, a disaster; if Crouch had had Defoe or Bent to lay off to (i.e., if we'd gone with a 4-4-2 from the start)
we might have done rather better. Incomprehensible tactics were compounded by technical inferiority.

And could those who thought Gerrard had a good game post me what they were smoking?

 

[MattyP]

It shouldn't hurt me, but it does.

Absolutely gutted by the result tonight, but I guess at least it means I don't spend three grand following England to the quater finals and then being disappointed.

Better team won tonight. Carson should be castigated for his performance, coz you know Robbo would, but no doubt it will all be about Maclaren.

Oh well, the pain I feel tonight will hopefully be replaced by joy on Sunday.

 

[Defsta]

I'm really pissed off :evil:

 

[MattyP]

What did Maclaren say. Something along the lines of the qualifying group is 12 games, judge me after 12 games, not ten or eleven.

Okay, the qualifying stage is over. We didn't qualify. Need I say more.

 

[Defsta]

Neckshot to MacClown :up:








Bring Venables back :dance:

 

[Bobbins]

The funny thing is, McClown was so scared by Croatia that in neither game did he play our standard (and successful) 4-4-2 formation or line-up. In both games he was so terrified that he gambled on different formations and different players. This alone proves the guy was way out of his depth.

I feel sorry for him though. I don't think I could do the England manager's job any better (well maybe a bit, bye-bye Fat Frank for a start) but I certainly wouldn't turn it down if it was offered to me, so what was he supposed to do? He probably knew he was punching above his weight, hence all the talk before he started of 'passion' etc. He knew and we know that passion means fuck all at international level, especially if your players can't pass the ball more than twice in a row and no further than 3 feet at a time (unless it's a 60-yard Hollywood pass).