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'Feeder clubs" in the Football League

taidgh

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2004
7,897
16,243
Interesting that AVB has proposed the allowance of 'B' sides in the lower leagues to speed up player development. This system is in place in big leagues across the continent, including Spain, Germany and Holland. Does this provide an advantage to big clubs? I, for one, would like to see it come about.
 

L.A. Yiddo

Not in L.A.
Apr 12, 2007
5,639
8,051
We already have one...

West_Ham_United_FC.svg
 

Kendall

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2007
38,502
11,933
I think it's just arrogance with big clubs to be honest and trivialises the lower leagues.
 

jimtheyid

T'riffic
Apr 16, 2005
13,497
7,235
Agree with Kendall, we alreafy loan people out so we don't have to blood our own youngsters.
 

tototoner

Staying Alert
Mar 21, 2004
29,387
34,059
It would be great for the likes of us, Man Utd , Chelsea and Arsenal

Not so for the established lower league clubs

Basically the elite clubs like ourselves need to stop being so greedy and hoarding loads of young talent. Chelsea probably the worst at this - didn't they just sign 3 x 12 yo's from Luton this week

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...g-clubs-feeder-sides-into-league-6292179.html

Andre Villas-Boas said yesterday that the development of young English footballers is so flawed that top clubs should be allowed to have feeder teams in the lower divisions to enable the likes of Chelsea to bring players through from their academies.

In an outspoken attack on an academy system in which his club in particular have invested heavily over the last eight years, the Chelsea manager, whose team face Norwich City tomorrow, advocated a system similar to that in Spain where Barcelona 'B', among other feeder teams, compete in the nation's second tier of football.

Villas-Boas said that reserve and youth-team football in England was "not competitive" and did not prepare young footballers for the transition to the first team. He warned Chelsea's high-profile youngsters currently out on loan – such as Josh McEachran at Swansea City – that they would have to prove themselves at their new clubs or could not expect to break through at Chelsea.

His comments are sure to attract the attention of Football League clubs who would resist ferociously any attempt to become feeder clubs to the bigger beasts in the top-flight. Equally, the Premier League has placed great store in its academy system which has been comprehensively overhauled with the introduction next season of the Elite Player Performance Plan (EPPP) across the professional game.

Villas-Boas said: "The youth development system in England is not right, in my belief. There is plenty of effort and talks to get it right but in my opinion it is not. The reserve team league is not competitive. The youth levels are not competitive enough. The FA Youth Cup: does it favour talent or competition?

"In my opinion there is a missing link between age groups in all competitions. There should be national championships played between teams from around the country. The older ones should play nationally. The younger ones should play regionally. You promote more talent and competitiveness and it is that which generates talent and willingness to drive."

It was put to him that at Barcelona, Pep Guardiola has given first-team debuts to 25 players who have been promoted from the club's feeder team since he took over as manager in 2008. Why had Chelsea failed to bring any significant player through from the youth team since John Terry's emergence more than 10 years ago?

"Because the gap between the reserve team and the first-team is immense here," Villas-Boas said. "Barcelona 'B' play in the equivalent of the Championship. If the European model is applied in England, it could be tested. The reserve team serves the first-team, but it doesn't serve the progression of talent coming through.

"It [buying a feeder club] could be a solution. There is more of a cultural identity [with the parent club] if it's called a 'B' team. It's the same name, the same environment. If it's a feeder club, I couldn't call a player up to my team until the transfer window opens.

"What happens in Barcelona 'B' is a good model in terms of competitions. If the talent is playing in [a feeder club] in a competitive league you can call up players, There is immediate identification by the players with the process you're trying to implement in your first team. And it could be a great benefit because you don't have to work with a 26-man squad, but a 19-man squad and just recall the best young guys. If Ryan [Bertrand, who has had seven loan periods] and Josh [McEachran] could make the jump from Championship to Premiership every week, their involvement would be better."

In the case of McEachran, a promising 18-year-old who has struggled to get playing time in the first team this season, Villas-Boas said that he had to follow Daniel Sturridge's example at Bolton Wanderers last season. "He [McEachran] has to triumph in a difficult place," he said. "Swansea have just beaten Arsenal and are well positioned in the league. So Josh has to make his way and have the same impact as Daniel did at Bolton."

As with many other top English clubs, Chelsea have chosen to pay big transfer fees and in some cases award lucrative professional contracts to unproven 17-year-olds in order to secure the best players. Under Frank Arnesen's reign at the club they managed to sell many of these players on for a profit but have never been able to produce an academy graduate who commanded a first-team place.

Just this week the club have signed three brothers from Luton Town's academy – Cole and Rio Dasilva, both 12 and their brother Jay, 13 – and Villas-Boas denied that it was an issue of paying young players too much money. Instead he said English elite youth football needed to change.

"[In Spain] the older ones play nationally and the younger ones regionally. If the kids weren't able to win when they were young, they won't make it when they face the massive challenge."

On Fernando Torres, who will almost certainly start tomorrow, Villas-Boas said that he did not feel his £50m striker was inhibited by playing with Didier Drogba as had been suggested by his predecessor Carlo Ancelotti. "We're speaking about two of the best players in the world," he said. "If that was the case with any player, it would be a mental weakness or a mental block. Which is not the case in my opinion."
 

mattyspurs

It is what it is
Jan 31, 2005
15,280
9,893
Bad idea. It will just make a mockery of the lower leagues. We are not Spain, the lower league teams are the lifeblood of English football. They need to be supported, yes, but not rpaed by the bigger clubs.

Concentrate on your job in hand AVB which is trying to make an ageing team work together.
 

MrWoolley

Moderator
Staff
May 26, 2004
13,415
576
Bad idea. It will just make a mockery of the lower leagues. We are not Spain, the lower league teams are the lifeblood of English football. They need to be supported, yes, but not rpaed by the bigger clubs.

Concentrate on your job in hand AVB which is trying to make an ageing team work together.

Spot on.
 

agrdavidsfan

Ledley's Knee!
Aug 25, 2005
10,918
13,352
But sadly that's how Spain produce talent so good they are allowed to blood them in first team action in competitive leagues! That improves the


As a former Swansea footballer I know how much of a joke the leagues are! From the reserves down too u14s it's a joke!
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,513
This will never happen as the Football League clubs wouldnt allow it as it would kill off god knows how many lower league clubs. It just wouldnt work in this country with such an established and extensive professional league structure.
 

$hoguN

Well-Known Member
Jul 25, 2005
26,626
34,700
Bad idea. It will just make a mockery of the lower leagues. We are not Spain, the lower league teams are the lifeblood of English football. They need to be supported, yes, but not rpaed by the bigger clubs.

Concentrate on your job in hand AVB which is trying to make an ageing team work together.

I agree
 

Azazello

The Boney King of Nowhere
Aug 15, 2009
6,965
5,069
Bad idea. It will just make a mockery of the lower leagues. We are not Spain, the lower league teams are the lifeblood of English football. They need to be supported, yes, but not rpaed by the bigger clubs.

Concentrate on your job in hand AVB which is trying to make an ageing team work together.

this.
 

Mattspur

ENIC IN
Jan 7, 2004
4,885
7,257
But sadly that's how Spain produce talent so good they are allowed to blood them in first team action in competitive leagues! That improves the


As a former Swansea footballer I know how much of a joke the leagues are! From the reserves down too u14s it's a joke!

The suspense is killing me.
 

Shanks

Kinda not anymore....
May 11, 2005
31,159
18,914
There is a big difference in class, and it's refreshing to see teams like Swansea come up and do well (and play decent football too).

But, I tend to think that this could be a good idea and I even mentioned it a few months ago.

Won't ever happen though as our leagues are rich in history and it would monopolise the big clubs even more.

I think our loan system works wonders though, we are loaning out our youngsters and they are developing nicely. Certainly with Walker.

Caulker this year, Prem league experience, could be a shoe in at CB nxt season too.
 

tototoner

Staying Alert
Mar 21, 2004
29,387
34,059
David Moyes reveals Everton B Team in Football Conference Plan

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2012/01/20/boss-reveals-conference-plan

David Moyes has revealed he once tried to get an Everton reserve team into the Football Conference.

The Blues boss asked the FA if he could enter a 'B' side into the division, the fifth tier of the English football pyramid, in the hope of giving the Club's young players more regular exposure to competitive first-team action.

Moyes shelved the idea, however, after being told any new faction of the Club would have to enter the league system at a regional level.

Chelsea boss Andre Villas-Boas (above with Moyes) this week issued strong criticism of the youth system in this country, blaming a lack of competition for creating an 'immense' disparity between reserve-team football and the Premier League.

The Portuguese utilised a second side during his successful spell at Porto, while the likes of Lionel Messi, Xavi, Andres Iniesta, Carles Puyol and current manager Pep Guardiola all turned out for Barcelona B as they were groomed for life at Europe’s leading club.

Villas Boas suggested a similar set up here could lead to a greater number of emerging talents making first-team breakthroughs and Moyes, too, believes such a system would have its merits.

"Four or five years ago I would've liked to have put Everton's reserve team into the Conference," he said. "I thought it would have been better football for them.

"My hope was that we could've used Widnes' stadium as our stadium and when the first team were playing away from home, our 'B' team would've played in the Conference. That was my long idea.

"But the answer to it was ‘no’ because we'd have had to go into division nine of the North West outer counties or whatever you want to call it, so it would have taken us a long, long time.

"But I'd have been happy just to be in the Conference; no promotion, no nothing, not involved in cups or anything - just so I could've got young players games against the men really. That’s what my thought was."

Moyes also believed his younger players would have benefitted from having their working week brought in line with that of the Club’s more senior professionals.

"I thought the games would've been better, more competitive and more realistic and because the games tend to be on a Saturday or a Sunday, the younger players would have been able to follow the same programme as the seniors," he explained. "Your training week could be similar and the players could do similar work.

"When your reserve games are Tuesday and Wednesday night it makes if difficult for them to follow programmes and the weekends become difficult because they may have to come away with the first team. Then, before you know it, you've got young boys who are missing training sessions and we have to first and foremost make sure their development is right."

Despite his support of any move to assess the way young talents are developed in England, Moyes did warn against ‘second teams’ infiltrating the professional leagues, pointing out that clubs and supporters would find it tough to accept sustained intrusion from their top-flight superiors.

He would remain in favour of clubs entering sides into the football system at basement level, however, and believes such a move could even be beneficial in raising standards from the grassroots of the game upwards.

"I think it would be unfair for any team to, say, go into the Championship," he said. "I think the tradition in this country would see that that is not the right thing to do.

"It would've taken us 10 or 11 years to get through but I think it's something that could work if clubs had the right facilities like a proper stadium - like a Conference ground - where you could play on a Saturday. And I think it might have helped the Conference as well.”
 

VegasII

Well-Known Member
May 14, 2008
9,750
16,670
I wonder if British football might go this way eventually. With lower league clubs struggling to get by or going into administration, it might be that some end up closing in the future which means we could see B teams being allowed in.

Lower leagues can be fun to watch and I think most of us have a local side we follow, look out for or go to watch.
 

spursandbarca

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2008
3,972
446
its whats done in spain and it is a success as allows youngsters play for football that counts against experienced pros not in front of 100 people at stevenage
 

tototoner

Staying Alert
Mar 21, 2004
29,387
34,059
It would only benefit the English game if the B teams had a restriction ( say only 3 ) on foreign players starting.

It does work in Spain and Holland though, to the benefit of the national side.
 
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