Forwards?

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My issue with Bent is not that he doesn't score goals. His scoring record is impressive, especially this season, but I just feel that he doesn't offer enough else. Now I know that seems a bit silly when goals are obviously very important, but he doesn't create goals himself or for others, and although improved, cant hold the ball up allowing others to play round him.

I did feel sorry for him when he was dropped in favour of Defoe/Keane and Pav, but he isn't half as effective when he plays in a pair up front, he was better when Modric played at the top of the midfield when Harry first came in, so that may have been why he went down the pecking order.

It's a cliche that gets used a lot "he would go to another club and do well" but I really don't think Bent is a top 6 player, unless he plays up front on his own.

Of course, that is only my opinion and I fully expect others to disagree, but that's why we love the community!

i fully respect your opinion on Bent, but this could quite easily be a description of Defoe, couldn't it? perhaps Defoe does create more for himself, but that's only down to the fact that he drops a little deeper and is far more likely to go for goal himself than pass it - often when a teammate is better positioned.

 

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The problem with this article is that is tries to use cold hard statistics to convince people away from their opinions about players, which they have formed from what they see on the pitch.

... Bent does not offer enough in his overall play to command a starting place in our line up. That's not to say he doesn't have his benefits - he is clearly a hard worker and excellent finisher - but if we can fetch say £12m for someone who isnt good enough to be first choice ...

... Basically my point is that while Bent and Pav are clearly good strikers with respectable scoring records, they could potentially be improved upon...

first of all, i'm not trying to convince anyone away from their opinions. i wrote the article from my point of view to open up the topic of fashionable players.

with regard to Bent scoring goals in a poorly performing side, what more could you ask for? why that isn't good enough? if Defoe had the same stats and had played in exactly the same way would you say the same?

Bent and Pav could be improved on, but so could everyone else in the squad, and there are certainly positions which have a higher priority than the scoring forwards.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

i fully respect your opinion on Bent, but this could quite easily be a description of Defoe, couldn't it? perhaps Defoe does create more for himself, but that's only down to the fact that he drops a little deeper and is far more likely to go for goal himself than pass it - often when a teammate is better positioned.

Fair call fella, I think like you said Defoe can create more things for himself and I think thrives off another striker up there with him, but otherwise I don't disagree.

It does seem harsh on Bent that he is not as popular as maybe he should be after scoring so many goals, and it's not through lack of effort, I just think he lacks what a top striker really needs.

Good column though.:clap:

 

[Chedozie]

The problem with this article is that is tries to use cold hard statistics to convince people away from their opinions about players, which they have formed from what they see on the pitch. And crucially, football is played on a pitch - there is much more to how we rate a striker beyond the number of goals they have scored in a number of minutes. We need to assess their overall impact on the team over the course of the season.

The fact remains that a significant proportion of regular Spurs watchers, perhaps even a majority, have come to the conclusion that despite his impressive goal tally, Bent does not offer enough in his overall play to command a starting place in our line up. That's not to say he doesn't have his benefits - he is clearly a hard worker and excellent finisher - but if we can fetch say £12m for someone who isnt good enough to be first choice and replace him with somebody who might foreseeably challenge/complement Keane and Defoe, then surely that makes sense.

Similarly with Pav, yes he has had his moments this season, in particular that FA Cup game against Wigan, and I think most would agree that he is certainly a talented footballer. However, there is also much evidence to suggest that he isn't quite what we are looking for in our 'target man' striker position - see: Carling Cup final, last game of season vs. City. Again, if we can recoup good money for him and spend it on someone who the coaching staff have identified as being better suited to our team (I'm not going to throw names around because I trust Redknapp to do his job better than I could) then why wouldn't we do it?

Basically my point is that while Bent and Pav are clearly good strikers with respectable scoring records, they could potentially be improved upon...if Redknapp has identified players that we feels will offer more than these two (not necessarily true from all the rumours, but probably is), and they are affordable, then surely we trust his judgement to deliver the goods and improve our playing staff.

I agree with what you have written.

Stat wise Bent is a good player, but when i watch him play, he, to me is an unintelligent footballer, he makes the wrong runs and seems to have no idea of where Lennons crosses are going, he has played and trained with Lennon for over two years now.

Keane gets onto Lennons crosses far more often, i thinks its because he can read his play better, he is a more intelligent footballer.

You need a sense of excitement when a striker gets the ball and for me Bent never delivers that.

 

[ultimateloner]

I agree with what you have written.

Stat wise Bent is a good player, but when i watch him play, he, to me is an unintelligent footballer, he makes the wrong runs and seems to have no idea of where Lennons crosses are going, he has played and trained with Lennon for over two years now.

Keane gets onto Lennons crosses far more often, i thinks its because he can read his play better, he is a more intelligent footballer.

You need a sense of excitement when a striker gets the ball and for me Bent never delivers that.

Agree with this view - stats is important from a team perspective, but not on the individual. What you get in stats depends too much on your team-mates and opponents to be reflective of one's ability (touch, vision etc)

However I think stats, especially for a striker, indicates their positioning. Bent/Pav are probably under-rated in the goal instinct department. While Bent makes bad runs, he is probably faster to the ball than others - hence his goals.

 

[JimmyG2]

I agree with what you have written.

Stat wise Bent is a good player, but when i watch him play, he, to me is an unintelligent footballer, he makes the wrong runs and seems to have no idea of where Lennons crosses are going, he has played and trained with Lennon for over two years now.

Keane gets onto Lennons crosses far more often, i thinks its because he can read his play better, he is a more intelligent footballer.

You need a sense of excitement when a striker gets the ball and for me Bent never delivers that.

This is a little unfair as I'm not altogether certain that Lennon always knows precisely where his crosses are going.
The problem is we don't have enough players making runs into the box to take advantage of the cut back, or near post sliders.
This is partly because Lennon outpaces the other forwards.
There are very few wide players that consistently play the ball 'on the spot,'and there is a widespread myth about this ability.
Beckham is perhaps an exception but he is not running at speed and beating players. He has a simple technique which can be practised in isolation, almost a 'dead ball' skill.
Modric's goal against Chelsea looked like some attempt had been made on the training ground to give us more options with the cross and to accomodate a strike force lacking height. Even Bent is only 5' 10'' and although he may not be exciting he is effective and will take some replacing with more effective players who would consider coming to us.
Interesting responses to a well written column.

 

[alextheyid]

I think we should keep all our current strikers, and add a 'good in the air' striker. Mr RVN fits the bill for me.

I would also like us to get Tuncay as he can add goals from midfield, and play up front if necessary.

Get Scharner and Warnock in as well and I think that's us sorted.

Of course, whoever Harry buys will be probably better than my suggestions

i dont think we can hold onto all four and buy another..4 is a lot to keep happy anyway..

 

[DC_Boy]

i dont think we can hold onto all four and buy another..4 is a lot to keep happy anyway..

I know what you're saying and yours is the orthodox view.

But I just don't see who we should get rid of.

if I ranked the strikers in my fave pecking order Keane would be at the bottom

but I know he has good points and he won't be going anyway

so then for me Pav has to go, but why?

lots of people want Bent out - I rate him, so I want him to stay.

My view is have 5, then circumstances will probably dictate one will get so *****d off they'll want to go.

that one will be the one that Harry rates the lest presumably

We started last season a striker light (jes luv that one - cor blimey guv

I'd rather we went in top heavy this time

 

[Boxset Dan]

I always defend Bent and always mention how he at Charlton a team at the time were very poor was just behind Henry after 2 seasons in a row and so if it were not for Henry over the 2 seasons he would have been the EPL's top goalscorer.

He is good enough to play for a team challenging for Europe but seems to be out of favour at Spurs far too often, which is why Im sure he will be shown the door.

Pavy has come from a poor league on the up with some international experiance to play in arguably the best league in the world with not a bad debut season imo. He seems to be another player like Bent who recieves mixed opinions from fans and so could also be shown the door.

Spurs seems to have far too many opinions from the fans and high hopes which if not met see's us buy and sell. I hope we stick with the strikers we have and if RVN can be sold for £1.25m then why not? Sure another striker and we dont need more but at the price mentioned he is value for money just for a few goals during the season lol.

RVN was injured for 7 months and before the injury he was Real's top striker but has fallen away due to injury and he could easily still play at the level but Real seem to think he will not, nor do they remember that he was their top striker previously.

I would much rather see us sell Zokora, Jenas, Huddlestone, Hutton, Chimbonda and sign a big winger and CM and then get some competition in defence.

The line up I want to see in the first 11 next season though:

..........................Gomes
Johnson.....Woodgate.....King.....Ekotto
Lennon................Palacios.........Young
..........................Modric.................
.....................Keane.....Defoe..........

New players signed over the summer:
G.Johnson
A.Young
RVN
Bassong

Players Out:
Jenas
Huddlestone
Zokora
Bentley
Hutton

This would mean Corluka can come in at CB or RB.
Bale can replace Ekotto as long as he can finally win a game in a Spurs shirt.
If Young didnt come in then I would like to see Arda Turan come in.

I would also like to see a little midfielder come in that can play a style of a CM playmaker as we are likely to and if these predicted transfers of mine do happen we could use another CM.

 

[Boony]

I always defend Bent and always mention how he at Charlton a team at the time were very poor was just behind Henry after 2 seasons in a row and so if it were not for Henry over the 2 seasons he would have been the EPL's top goalscorer.

He is good enough to play for a team challenging for Europe but seems to be out of favour at Spurs far too often, which is why Im sure he will be shown the door.

Pavy has come from a poor league on the up with some international experiance to play in arguably the best league in the world with not a bad debut season imo. He seems to be another player like Bent who recieves mixed opinions from fans and so could also be shown the door.

Spurs seems to have far too many opinions from the fans and high hopes which if not met see's us buy and sell. I hope we stick with the strikers we have and if RVN can be sold for £1.25m then why not? Sure another striker and we dont need more but at the price mentioned he is value for money just for a few goals during the season lol.

RVN was injured for 7 months and before the injury he was Real's top striker but has fallen away due to injury and he could easily still play at the level but Real seem to think he will not, nor do they remember that he was their top striker previously.

I would much rather see us sell Zokora, Jenas, Huddlestone, Hutton, Chimbonda and sign a big winger and CM and then get some competition in defence.

The line up I want to see in the first 11 next season though:

..........................Gomes
Johnson.....Woodgate.....King.....Ekotto
Lennon................Palacios.........Young
..........................Modric.................
.....................Keane.....Defoe..........

New players signed over the summer:
G.Johnson
A.Young
RVN
Bassong

Players Out:
Jenas
Huddlestone
Zokora
Bentley
Hutton

This would mean Corluka can come in at CB or RB.
Bale can replace Ekotto as long as he can finally win a game in a Spurs shirt.
If Young didnt come in then I would like to see Arda Turan come in.

I would also like to see a little midfielder come in that can play a style of a CM playmaker as we are likely to and if these predicted transfers of mine do happen we could use another CM.

Why make so many changes to a squad who have performed so well in the 2nd half of the season? Hutton hasnt even been given a chance, why waste so much on your budget on a right back? and Jenas.... how manay games did he play ? and AGAIN hwo was the 2nd half of the season for us.

LEAVE THE DEFENCE... its been the best its been for years. The team/squad need some stability... not more changes AGAIN

 

[Bilko]

It`s possible that harry may have seen most of his targets dissappear up the swanny river.Portsmouth-wet ham sorting thier investors and Villa-Everton in europe.
Without financial clout and with reduced perspective offerings to quality players thanks to City becoming the obvious 4th or 5th team he is going to need a very good plan, or to take some big risks.
I doubt he will be able to improve on his squad in this window, and we may have to bide our time for good signings.

 

[yid life crisis]

I agree with what you have written.

Stat wise Bent is a good player, but when i watch him play, he, to me is an unintelligent footballer, he makes the wrong runs and seems to have no idea of where Lennons crosses are going, he has played and trained with Lennon for over two years now.

To be fair, Lennon doesn't know where his crosses are going half the time

 

[billnick]

Regardless of football ability, goals scored, or even the question of keeping him or not - Bent's biggest single problem with a lot of fans is that too many fans read the headline price tag, didn't want him, and that made their minds up.
I've never been a big fan - he's just not my kind of player, but without his goals this year - from playing in front of a clueless midfield half the year - I'm not sure how safe we'd have been. So that justified the headline fee, let alone what we've paid by now. For that, I'd like to see him given a chance again next year. If he moves on, good luck to him. If he stays, I hope he shuts a lot of people up.

 

[ultimateloner]

Bent is not popular because he has no technique. His first touch is awful. He can't create for himself, let alone for others.

His price tag is not an issue. We have Bentley, who's even worse. We've had alot of flops at this club, so we are use to it.

 

[billnick]

Bent is not popular because he has no technique. His first touch is awful. He can't create for himself, let alone for others.

His price tag is not an issue. We have Bentley, who's even worse. We've had alot of flops at this club, so we are use to it.

Goalscorers don't need to create for others - we've had that a lot in the past, and Arsenal have it now - so much faffing about in the opposition box that nobody takes the bull by the horns and scores the winner. Bent used to do that for Charlton, and often scores for Spurs when he gets the chance. In a lot of respects he's like Owen or even more so Inzaghi.

Not a lot there if you want to play Football Manager with different attribute values - there's not much skill, there's not much flair, there's not much awareness of team mates and they look limited footballers. But they get goals, and lots of them. We've had Greaves like that, we've had Lineker like that. You can guarantee that in 50 years time, unless there's a dramatic change in the rules of the game, teams will want players who score goals, regardless of their passing ability.

All our other strikers are more accompished footballers, and for that I prefer them to start. The difference is, they can score goals and they can assist (Defoe seems to have made big steps forward in this area). When that's not working out, someone that does score goals is a lifesaver to bring off of the bench.

Bentley is a completely different issue - had a very poor season for whatever reason, but he doesn't lack creativity, first touch or skill. It's fairly certain that last season was a blip, and whoever he plies his trade with in future - be it Spurs or someone else - will have a very capable footballer on their books.

Bent's price tag shouldn't be an issue, but when we signed him too many people made it so - and continue to do so. My point, and it was glaringly obvious I think from reading it again, is that for too many people they've never got over that. That you don't find it an issue doesn't alter the fact that they do.

Let's look at it another way - take any of our direct competitors for the European spots, who haven't been in disarray for two years. Would you want Bent's past goalscoring record in front of their settled midfields?

There's not a lot that needs changing in this Spurs side. Not a lot at all. I'd like to see some decent defensive signings, at least one very good centre back. Maybe a midfielder. Ideally, both with experience. We're fine going forwards, we're usually ok at the back. It's one thing to have a slightly worse record without Ledley in the team, but it's another to lack confidence when he's not - and we're guilty of that at times.

Two more signings like Naybet and Davids for example, and an out and out left winger if the right player is available at the right price. That's about all we need, unless the chance to sign someone who'll make as huge a difference as Palacios becomes possible. We're already capable of being better than Everton and Villa, let's not shoot ourselves in the foot again by changing too much of the team in an effort to catch teams who aren't ahead. Man City are going to sign everybody they can, and there's no escaping it. Some strong additions to our squad rather than first team, and by the time the likes of City gel we'll be far enough ahead that it won't matter.

 

[HodisGawd]

In the case of Bent the stats that have been quoted just don't tell the whole story.

I'm sure if someone digs out stats on how many times a match he loses possession because of his terrible first touch, fluffs a good chance or runs the ball into a blind alley then we'd have a far better picture of the player he is.

The fact is, from the evidence of seeing him in the flesh perform over and over again last season, he's simply not good enough.

He scored a few goals, yes, but most of them were tap-ins. And just imagine how many he would have scored if he could create a few himself, put away a greater percentage of the chances he gets and not let so many of our attacks break down because he can't control the ball.

If we had someone in our side who could do that then we would have scored far, far more goals than least season. Heaven forbid, that person may even have created a goal for someone else.

Face it, even though he seems like a good guy, Bent is just not good enough for us.

 

[Jules77]

The problem with this article is that is tries to use cold hard statistics to convince people away from their opinions about players, which they have formed from what they see on the pitch. And crucially, football is played on a pitch - there is much more to how we rate a striker beyond the number of goals they have scored in a number of minutes. We need to assess their overall impact on the team over the course of the season.

The fact remains that a significant proportion of regular Spurs watchers, perhaps even a majority, have come to the conclusion that despite his impressive goal tally, Bent does not offer enough in his overall play to command a starting place in our line up. That's not to say he doesn't have his benefits - he is clearly a hard worker and excellent finisher - but if we can fetch say £12m for someone who isnt good enough to be first choice and replace him with somebody who might foreseeably challenge/complement Keane and Defoe, then surely that makes sense.

Similarly with Pav, yes he has had his moments this season, in particular that FA Cup game against Wigan, and I think most would agree that he is certainly a talented footballer. However, there is also much evidence to suggest that he isn't quite what we are looking for in our 'target man' striker position - see: Carling Cup final, last game of season vs. City. Again, if we can recoup good money for him and spend it on someone who the coaching staff have identified as being better suited to our team (I'm not going to throw names around because I trust Redknapp to do his job better than I could) then why wouldn't we do it?

Basically my point is that while Bent and Pav are clearly good strikers with respectable scoring records, they could potentially be improved upon...if Redknapp has identified players that we feels will offer more than these two (not necessarily true from all the rumours, but probably is), and they are affordable, then surely we trust his judgement to deliver the goods and improve our playing staff.

Exactly. Original post is written from a somewhat 'Championship Manager' perspective. Fact is, when you watch a game (and I watched every one) Pav and Bent bring little else to the team. Beyond technique even, Keane and Defoe demand much more attention from other teams, freeing up our midfielders to attack into space. Our midfield is much less effective when Pav/Bent are playing. Good number of Bent's goals were mishits. Definitely can be improved upon.

 

[DC_Boy]

Hi Jules

'Good number of Bent's goals were mishits'

2 things - one does it matter they all count the same - ask our greeatest goalscorer greavesie on the matter - he took them however they came

also we've had this debate on here a lot - it may well be that that bent is an efficient striker, as he may know how to beat a keeper, without lashing it into the top corner

see greaves on that art too

 

[read]

Good number of Bent's goals were mishits.

so what you're saying here is that he scores EVEN when he doesn't hit it well. isn't that a good thing?

 

[joffmeister]

However, I cannot get rid of the feeling that between our four strikers there is no real partnership or even what seems like a potentially good one. They all provide us with good individual options, but we need a partnership.

I completely agree with this. We have 4 strikers, which means 6 potential pairings - of these, IMO, three just don't work at all even if given time to build a rapport. The ones that do/could work to some degree are: Defoe-Pav, Keane-Pav and Keane-Bent.

Given that Defoe appears to be our #1 striker, it seems daft that only one of our other 3 strikers can play with him (not necessarily their fault, I'm just saying...). We need a genuine target man to get the best out of JD - Crouch is an obvious option, as this worked well for Pompey, but there are others.

Pav is not a target man and has struggled for us in that role, though he and Defoe did fine together in January. But he is a very good finisher and could, I think, also work well with a target man alongside (as could Keane).

Keane would only get on the pitch if Defoe's unavailable, so he's going to be unhappy, and we all know he's not the type to keep his opinions to himself. So I wouldn't be completely averse to recouping the £15m there.

Bent doesn't work very well in a pair, in my view, and doesn't have the all-round game we need. I'd be happy to get more than £10m - I'm sure he'll do well elsewhere in the right system.

Overall, I wouldn't be at all unhappy going into next season with 3 strikers: Defoe, Pav and Crouch (/Carew/Santa Cruz/?), with Obika as back-up. Any 2 of those 3 should be able to play together, so this still gives us three potential pairings - and we still have option of playing with Modric off one striker if we bring in a quality left winger.

I would make as few changes as possible elsewhere in the squad, as we need stabillity and I think we're fine apart from, as ever, the need for a leftie. Some of the fringe senior players can happily go - we don't need as big a squad for a non-Europe season and we're a little bloated anyway after January.