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From Fratton Park to N17, Project Harry.

Feb 23, 2007
13
4
Take a look at these stats:

30/08/2008: P2 W0 D0 L0 F2 A4 Pts0
28/08/2011: P2 W0 D0 L2 F0 A7 Pts0

And this:

28/09/2008: P6 W0 D2 L4 F4 A9 Pts2

Think we'll be in much better shape after Wolves, Liverpool, Wigan and Arsenal?

Here's something else. In the Portsmouth line-up when we lost 2-0 at Fratton Park on 28/09/2008 were: Kaboul, Diarra, Crouch and Defoe. There was also Campbell, so read Gallas in our currents quad for experienced ex-Arsenal defender who still knows the ropes. In the Spurs side that day: Corluka, Dawson, BAE and Lennon (second half). Modric was an unused substitute. Our centre midfield was Jenas and Zokora (versus Livermore and Hudd v Man C on Sunday, after ineffectual, disinterested Modric was replaced). Can you tell me how we have progressed? I mean "progressed" as in our rivals' definition of the word? Can you not see that Harry is a mid-table manager, with zero tactical nous, an appalling record for game-changing substitutions (usually proof of a sharp, tactical mind), and - the sure sign of limitation - a tendency to revert to type, no matter the environment?

This Spurs side is Juande Redknapp, nothing more. We are Tottenham Portspur, almost in personnel, certainly in tactics and set-up, most definitely in coaching (or lack of it).

Spurs are not a club like Portsmouth. In so many obvious ways. But we share the same manager through an unfortunate turn of history. And Harry is slowly turning us into a better version of Pompey, class of 2008/09.

And before anyone accuses me of being one of the so-called Spurs Whinging Fans; I am not. I did not celebrate Redknapp when he was appointed. I do not celebrate him now. He is a 4-4-2, up and at 'em Englishman, with the odd minor variation (and only as forced by his players' characteristics, not his vision). He bangs on about where we were when he arrived - the relentless motor-mouth self-publicist - and exudes arrogance and superciliousness. But we were a Top 5 club when he arrived, almost Top 4, with the likes of Mendes, Ziegler, Edman et al. We're no further forward now, IF you measure us against Manchester City and Liverpool, NOT Portsmouth.

Honestly, if Tony Pulis came to Spurs, with the same personnel, we'd see an improvement. That's an interesting benchmark - who wants Pulis at the Lane? Nobody in their right mind of course. But actually, if you step out of what we've become, and imagine looking down on our Club from altitude, that would be no madder a decision in strict context than appointing a man like Harry Redknapp was.

We will improve this season, maybe come 5th with Adebayor and one or two more reinforcements. But. WHAT A LOST OPPORTUNITY.

Harry Redknapp is a disaster for Tottenham Hotspur. We achieve ("achieve") in spite of him. He's a midget on the shoulders of giants. And if you can't see that, you're sucked in so far you've lost perspective.

So, I will keep the faith in the Club, I will keep following through thick and thin, and there will be some great days ahead, even in this season. But I am not overreacting. I am providing a strategic view on the reign of Harry Redknapp, and an historical context too. He never was and never will be Spurs.

PS: We should have told Chelsea that Modric was for sale for £40m by the end of July, no later, not a penny less. Got him out. He doesn't want to play for us. In business, you push against open doors, not shut ones. Modric wants to go, treble his wage, play Champions League and, for all I know, actually get some coaching fit for his ability. Have you ever heard of "The First Rule of Holes"? It's a fundamental business principle. The First Rule of Holes is this: If you're in one, stop digging. In other words, cut you losses, go dig somewhere else. That's what we should have done. Instead, we've unsettled the squad, provided endless soundbite opportunities for Harry 'Max Clifford' Redknapp, created a soap opera, but WORST OF ALL, left no time for a proper Plan B. And in running a business, that's a truly basic error.

PPS: Actually, The First Rule of Holes applies to Redknapp being manager, too......
 

rupert miller

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2007
1,043
437
wanker.worst post ive ever read on this site.get over it,we lost 2 games against the best in the league.you cant sack a manager because of that.harrys got us 4 and 5th and will have till the end of the season to make you eat your words.maybe harry pissed you off because you are one of the thick ones.
 

Boony

Active Member
Feb 24, 2004
1,475
0
Personally I AM a Redknapp fan. I dont think he's perfect, but I think he's the best English manager by a country mile. Im keen to hear your thoughts on last season? Could another manager have done as well in the CL? and as HR doesnt seem to run the rule over signings, was it his fault we didnt have enough depth?
 

postigol

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2003
1,890
1,061
wanker.worst post ive ever read on this site.get over it,we lost 2 games against the best in the league.you cant sack a manager because of that.harrys got us 4 and 5th and will have till the end of the season to make you eat your words.maybe harry pissed you off because you are one of the thick ones.
No need for name calling like that even if you do disagree. Don't think we should sack redknapp though I don't like him and don't trust him - he has his own agenda which always comes before the club's. That said, I think we'll have an ok season, prob finish 5th-6th.
 

pistolP

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2003
2,993
696
I agree with almost everything you mentioned, except getting ride of Modric to Chelsea, even though, i can see where you coming from. I am in support of Levys' stand on this, think for a minute what will happen next year if we allow Modric to go this transfer window. The likes of bale, Sandro, VDV and co will expect to be sold if they throw their toy out of the pram.
 

eddiebailey

Well-Known Member
Oct 12, 2004
7,452
6,672
Take a look at these stats:

30/08/2008: P2 W0 D0 L0 F2 A4 Pts0
28/08/2011: P2 W0 D0 L2 F0 A7 Pts0

And this:

28/09/2008: P6 W0 D2 L4 F4 A9 Pts2

Think we'll be in much better shape after Wolves, Liverpool, Wigan and Arsenal?

Frankly, yes. The Modric saga has the potential to unsettle us in the same way that the Berbatov saga did, but at least Harry still has the rest of the dressing room. Shooting a succesful manager after two games is not the answer, as Spurs history should show us.
 

eddiebailey

Well-Known Member
Oct 12, 2004
7,452
6,672
But we were a Top 5 club when he arrived,

The statistics you quote beg to differ.

We're no further forward now, IF you measure us against Manchester City and Liverpool,
Shame on Harry for not making a super-rich Arab oil sheik his first signing.

Honestly, if Tony Pulis came to Spurs, with the same personnel, we'd see an improvement. That's an interesting benchmark
Since it is a hypothetical and unprovable proposition, no it is not.

I am providing a strategic view on the reign of Harry Redknapp, and an historical context too.
No you really are not.
 
Dec 8, 2006
93
15
What utter tosh. Yes we did well to come 5th two years running under Jol - but I don't recall Ziegler, Edman or Mendes featuring. We also came below Liverpool (the least financially doped of your benchmarks) in the table on both occasions.

The 'disaster' Redknapp sorted out a team which was mentally crushed and emasculated personnel-wise and took it too the CL quarter final (not 5th place), and finished above Liverpool twice.

And which would you consider the better team:

Robinson
Lee Dawson Gardener Stalteri
Davids Carrick Jenas Lennon
Keane Mido

or

Friedel
Walker Dawson Gallas BAE
Bale Huddlestone Sandro Lennon
VdV
Adebayor?

(left out King who could feature in both, and Modric to be on the safe side).
 

Real_madyidd

The best username, unless you are a fucking idiot.
Oct 25, 2004
18,792
12,448
This is shameful to the site to have this on the front page.
 

striebs

Well-Known Member
Mar 18, 2004
4,504
667
What utter tosh. Yes we did well to come 5th two years running under Jol - but I don't recall Ziegler, Edman or Mendes featuring. We also came below Liverpool (the least financially doped of your benchmarks) in the table on both occasions.

The 'disaster' Redknapp sorted out a team which was mentally crushed and emasculated personnel-wise and took it too the CL quarter final (not 5th place), and finished above Liverpool twice.

And which would you consider the better team:

Robinson
Lee Dawson Gardener Stalteri
Davids Carrick Jenas Lennon
Keane Mido

or

Friedel
Walker Dawson Gallas BAE
Bale Huddlestone Sandro Lennon
VdV
Adebayor?

(left out King who could feature in both, and Modric to be on the safe side).

The anti-Harry brigade won't take kindly to you reminding them about the self-inflicted destruction following the League Cup victory .

We were really in it that season , just as deeply as that season where Pleat secured Michael Brown to fire in the goals which kept us up ; another very under appreciated managerial performance under extremely tight circumstances .

Harry won't need any excuses to ditch that commute from Bournmouth .

I don't think Levy will be in as much of a hurry to get wrid of Harry as most round here so hold out a tiny hope that history will not repeat itself .
 

guate

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2005
3,270
1,486
PistolP and his merry band of Redknapp haters have now found another acolyte with the original poster.
No wonder it's such a messed up world when the man that's got us consecutive 4th and 5th place finishes, plus the 1/4 finals of the Champions League, is constantly derided by whatever he does with these addle headed fools.
 
Feb 23, 2007
13
4
wanker.worst post ive ever read on this site.get over it,we lost 2 games against the best in the league.you cant sack a manager because of that.harrys got us 4 and 5th and will have till the end of the season to make you eat your words.maybe harry pissed you off because you are one of the thick ones.

Why thank you Rupert. How erudite. You really have demonstrated your intellectual prowess and ability to consider another's argument, even if it's one you are diametrically opposed to.

No need to work out who's the thick one, anyway.

I won't get into a pissing contest about who is more loyal, or more Spurs. My view is that whatever we have achieved is despite HR, not because, and a higher level coach, with more intelligence, vision and, frankly, magnanimity, would take us further. If you read my post properly, I wouldn't have appointed him in the first place.
 

spud

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2003
5,850
8,794
Why thank you Rupert. How erudite. You really have demonstrated your intellectual prowess and ability to consider another's argument, even if it's one you are diametrically opposed to.
I have some sympathy for your view, Last train, but what you have posted is a rant rather than an argument. It's therefore hardly surprising that you have attracted a similar type of response.
 

dickieven

Well-Known Member
Mar 31, 2006
2,041
2,930
Everyone one is entitled to their view so name calling etc is not the best way to respond. If we all shared the same view life would be dull !!

I am not a Redknapp fan. Never have been and never will be. But whilst he is manager of the club he has my support. He has achieved a lot. I do not think many managers would have got us into the champions league the year before last. However I think a few would have done last year with better rotation and maybe more flexible tactics. However no one is perfect and we have to accept peoples mistakes. I'm sure we all make mistakes in our work that we look back on and think "why the fvck did i do that.".

The only thing I would say is that Harry is not a great manager (he is good but not great). Alex Ferguson is or has become great over time. If he was in charge of any of the top 5 last season I think he would have won them the league. Not with different players but with different mentality. His teams expect to win and never know when they are beaten. The way he deals with the press just annoys people but he hardly every criticises his team. If they lose it is the refs fault if they win it is because they were the better team. The only time he praises the opposition is after utd have beaten them. I don't like him but i am sure that doesn't worry him. But he is a winner.

Anyway that's my view. We have Harry, lets all support him. We could have a lot worse manager (but probably not many that are better).

This season there is still so much to play for. OK we have played 2 lost 2. But the arse, Liverpool, Chelsea are actually no better than us. A decent run and points taken off the 3 of them over the next couple of months and people will forget about 0 points from 2 games (unless Harry reminds us of course!)

COYS.
 

jolsnogross

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2005
3,730
5,431
That was a truly awful article. Instead of looking at a 2 game record, which is preposterous really, we could just compare Harry's total league results as Spurs manager versus other managers. For example, here's a favorable comparison with Bill Nicholson's first 127 games in charge (from Jim Duggan at Topspurs).

Bill Nicholson, Football League 107 56 22 29 248 164
Harry Redknapp Footb League 107 51 28 28 162 123

Harry's no messiah, but he's doing well to have us consistently in top 4 or 5 form over the longer haul. We're competing with people who have no financial constraints whatsoever, and I'd rather have the Spurs way than the City or Chelsea way. I enjoy following Spurs as they are, I'd probably enjoy it better if we could win things as we are. And I reckon I wouldn't enjoy it so much if we were taken over by an oligarch.

Hatred of Harry is fine, but at least make a cohesive argument. He's actually doing reasonably well, so try not to have your head explode when you assess his whole record with us.
 

JuanRebelde

Member
Apr 10, 2006
978
2
That was a truly awful article. Instead of looking at a 2 game record, which is preposterous really, we could just compare Harry's total league results as Spurs manager versus other managers. For example, here's a favorable comparison with Bill Nicholson's first 127 games in charge (from Jim Duggan at Topspurs).

Bill Nicholson, Football League 107 56 22 29 248 164
Harry Redknapp Footb League 107 51 28 28 162 123

You may want to note that Bill Nicholson took the team from being a shambles to being champions in a couple of seasons and then built a dynasty that lasted into the 1970's. He also won most things along the way. Redknapp on the other hand who in my opinion is a lucky manager but not an especially good one took an excellent albeit de-motivated side that had in the previous three years finished 5th twice and won a trophy. As such your comparison with those figures is flawed.

Redknapp is no Bill Nick as he will not build a dynasty as his records at Portsmouth and Southampton, West Ham and Bournemouth have proved. He will, if he stays long enough and levy does not keep firm control, fill the side with older players on high salaries that are not the future. Ask a Portsmouth or Southampton Fan if you don't believe me.

As for the European run, the CL has been full of novices that have had good runs in the tournament (which is mainly a knock-out competition) as they are unknown quantities. The second season usually finds those teams out.

Sadly Redknapp failed us in the league last season and so we don't have CL football this season. No doubt our 'teflon boss' would not see it as a short-coming of his though.
 
Feb 23, 2007
13
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Thank you, Juan Rebelde, perfectly put. As I said, a midget, standing on the shoulders of giants. To equate where Bill Nick took us, to what Harry was given is manifestly nonsense.
 
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