Frustration Hotspur

[andyw362]

Im going to be controversial here but VDV actually has changed the whole dynamic of the team. We need to play 4-4-2 at home. If he wants to VDV then he drops modders and plays 2 up top.

Its a good point I think. But he is the only player scoring. 7 in 9. Our play at the start of the season hasnt changed. We battered Man City, but couldnt score. Thats been the story all season.

 

[tommo84]

january = striker

January = too late

 

[faulks]

January = too late

Not too late for that challenge to 6th or 7th spot! :wink:

 

[TEESSIDE1]

I thought the whole idea of playing a 4-5-1 was to play a defensive midfielder? Sandro's clearly not ready and as out of form as Palacios has been, we need someone to get stuck in.

As pathetic as our defence has been, they've got no protection.

Where were the game changing players on the bench? No where to be seen. Dos Santos, Rose, not great players but with our injuries they should be with us and not left out in the cold/out on loan.

Kranjcar, Crouch, Keane ... they need a slap or Levy's boot up their arse.

 

[lilywhitecurtis]

January is too late. Harry and Levy are equally to blame. Keane should have went in the summer, even if we slashed his price to Celtic and we should have used his 60k a week to sign Fabiano or anyone who's actually who their salt.

 

[mike_l]

Agreed, but the blow would massively lessened if Levy had got his cash out and signed a striker. Not even a 'world class' striker, just someone apart from Defoe who will finish out chances.

What chances are they then? Off the top of my head I can't really think of many chances squandered by our strikers. Possibly you could blame them for not getting into the right positions, but somehow our main midfield of Modric, Van der Vaart, Bale, Lennon and Huddlestone has not been creating much for them to fluff.

Too much focus on getting it to the wing and crossing for Crouch, even when he is not there. Things looked like improving in that respect 1st half tonight, but didn't get the chance to flourish as Pav was injured apparently. Hopefully it will be given more time over the coming weeks.

 

[Dwallace]

Dont get me wrong, Levy has done a fantastic job. But the one criticism I have of him is that he doesnt always act decisively.

Everybody knows we were a couple of signings away in the summer. We signed Sandro, a 21 year old brazilian (great prospect,6m), old man Gallas (free) and last ditch VDV (8m).

That doesnt exactly inspire us for our 1st ever champs league campaign. Before the summer our top priority was a 1st choice striker and a 1st choice centre back. It still remains teh case, so surely we would have to say that Levy failed us?

Mr Levy imo did the right thing he didn't go all out and break the bank on loads of players like Leeds did. I think he was aware like everyone else of Citeh's threat and I think he knew it would be tough to qualify for he CL again. The board did the right thing not spending too much maybe we could have got a forward in the summer but clearly the numbers for the Fabiano deal were WAY over the top. I don't think we will qualify for the CL this season even if we buy a CF in January. We should just enjoy this season in he CL and consolidate a top six position in the league I know it sounds dull but its reality I’m afraid

 

[andyw362]

What chances are they then? Off the top of my head I can't really think of many chances squandered by our strikers. Possibly you could blame them for not getting into the right positions, but somehow our main midfield of Modric, Van der Vaart, Bale, Lennon and Huddlestone has not been creating much for them to fluff.

Too much focus on getting it to the wing and crossing for Crouch, even when he is not there. Things looked like improving in that respect 1st half tonight, but didn't get the chance to flourish as Pav was injured apparently. Hopefully it will be given more time over the coming weeks.

Thats not true at all, we dominate games but we have zilch movement from the forwards.

Crouch - pretty useless apart from winning a header for VDV to score
Pav - no effect on any game apart from score sporadic wonder goals

How many times do we put the ball into the box only for it to come straight back?

 

[TEESSIDE1]

We've got another tough game coming up against Blackburn and then no doubt we'll get stuffed at arsecum.

 

[andyw362]

Mr Levy imo did the right thing he didn't go all out and break the bank on loads of players like Leeds did. I think he was aware like everyone else of Citeh's threat and I think he knew it would be tough to qualify for he CL again. The board did the right thing not spending too much maybe we could have got a forward in the summer but clearly the numbers for the Fabiano deal were WAY over the top. I don't think we will qualify for the CL this season even if we buy a CF in January. We should just enjoy this season in he CL and consolidate a top six position in the league I know it sounds dull but its reality I’m afraid

We didnt need to break the bank for Dzeko. All we needed was a reliable striker with some pace and strength and experienced centre back.

Harry will have to put his hand up and admit Gallas has been a bit of a disaster.

 

[Dwallace]

We didnt need to break the bank for Dzeko. All we needed was a reliable striker with some pace and strength and experienced centre back.

Harry will have to put his hand up and admit Gallas has been a bit of a disaster.

Are you kidding 25million Wolfsburg were asking for him hes a good player but not worth amount. I don't wanna pick on Arry again but since he joined the club his choice of players has been shocking which is what I feared in the first place. I mean despite the fact he brought back Defoe Keane and Kaboul and signed Kranjcar and Cudicini the rest of his selections have been trash imo. I mean Palacios Bassong Crouch Gallas not good enough imo the Arsenal will be laughing at us for signing Gallas what a mess.

 

[mike_l]

Thats not true at all, we dominate games but we have zilch movement from the forwards.

Crouch - pretty useless apart from winning a header for VDV to score
Pav - no effect on any game apart from score sporadic wonder goals

How many times do we put the ball into the box only for it to come straight back?

That's the problem though, I really don't think the players in our midfield are best suited to just lumping it into the box, I haven't seen much interplay between players who really shoudl be capable of it. We often dominate possession along the midfield at home with some relatively simple passing and then just get it out wide and play it into the box.

I'm not trying to say our strikers are not at fault, just that I feel we could expect more from our midfielders when it becomes apparent that plan A isn't working, as I think we can all agree that is where our main strength lies.

Also I stand by my initial point, we don't create that many chances. Throwing it into the box does not class as a chance, ok we had a few half chances tonight but I don't think that pounding crosses into VDV's head is optimum utilisation of our squads talents.

Genuine chances where the striker has ballsed up when he should score have been few and far between, were we creating loads of chances and just not finishing them this season would be a lot less frustrating as you could at least see that eventually we will start putting them away.

Who is to blame for this is more difficult to pinpoint.

 

[mike_l]

Are you kidding 25million Wolfsburg were asking for him hes a good player but not worth amount. I don't wanna pick on Arry again but since he joined the club his choice of players has been shocking which is what I feared in the first place. I mean despite the fact he brought back Defoe Keane and Kaboul and signed Kranjcar and Cudicini the rest of his selections have been trash imo. I mean Palacios Bassong Crouch Gallas not good enough imo the Arsenal will be laughing at us for signing Gallas what a mess.

I think the point being made was that there are other strikers out there than Dzeko who could have been more effective than our current lot but not cost the Earth.

 

[andyw362]

Are you kidding 25million Wolfsburg were asking for him hes a good player but not worth amount. I don't wanna pick on Arry again but since he joined the club his choice of players has been shocking which is what I feared in the first place. I mean despite the fact he brought back Defoe Keane and Kaboul and signed Kranjcar and Cudicini the rest of his selections have been trash imo. I mean Palacios Bassong Crouch Gallas not good enough imo the Arsenal will be laughing at us for signing Gallas what a mess.

BTW you misread, I said we didnt need to by Dzeko.

Anyway, bit harsh on Harry. Kranjcar was a good buy for 2m. Cudicini didnt cost us anything. Keano was a disaster, but at the time we were facing relegation not CL.

The problem is that we didnt have any ambition to build on last year when we were on a high.

 

[punky]

The differences between the first and second halves were night and day. In the first we we fast, agressive, great passing. We dominated but just didn't find the way through. The second half, we got sloppy and either just booted the ball up to Crouch for him to try and knock down or sporadic runs for Bale to try (and fail) to beat the first CB. Pav was lively

I do love Crouch. He's a great professional but he's crippling our game.

Without VDV we'd be in serious shit.

And our defense? Enough said about that...

Things are starting to look poor now. 1 point in 12, 6 points off where we were last year. We've dropped points against Wigan and West Ham when last year, we won. And that included wins against Chelsea and Arsenal which we're unlikely to repeat. At the moment we're dependent on everyone else failing whereas teams like City are getting stronger.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

That's the problem though, I really don't think the players in our midfield are best suited to just lumping it into the box, I haven't seen much interplay between players who really shoudl be capable of it. We often dominate possession along the midfield at home with some relatively simple passing and then just get it out wide and play it into the box.

I'm not trying to say our strikers are not at fault, just that I feel we could expect more from our midfielders when it becomes apparent that plan A isn't working, as I think we can all agree that is where our main strength lies.

Also I stand by my initial point, we don't create that many chances. Throwing it into the box does not class as a chance, ok we had a few half chances tonight but I don't think that pounding crosses into VDV's head is optimum utilisation of our squads talents.

Genuine chances where the striker has ballsed up when he should score have been few and far between, were we creating loads of chances and just not finishing them this season would be a lot less frustrating as you could at least see that eventually we will start putting them away.

Who is to blame for this is more difficult to pinpoint.

Agree completely with all of this, the goal VdV scored against Inter is what we're talking about, that type of football in and around the oppositions box has just been to few and far between.

We are more or less just playing a percentage game at the moment, get the ball out wide to mostly Bale and occasionally Lennon, get a cross in and hope for a Crouch knockdown for VdV. If VdV wasn't there it would be get the cross in and hope for a Crouch goal or something from Pav/Keane.

Imo we are struggling because we just have an over-reliance on this type of play. There are only so many goals playing like this will get you each game, have we scored more than 2 goals in any one league game so far this season? Actually think that playing 2 left footed players at LB//LW and 2 right footed players at RB/RW isn't helping too much either. I know we played like this V Arse/Chelsk/Man C last year but if you think back to those games the goals we scored didn't really come through great team play, mostly individual efforts apart from the Bale goal against Arsenal.

We don't really have anybody coming in from wide and playing little one-twos around the box or slipping others players in on goal. It's very much get it wide and get the cross in.

As much as people may disagree but think we should really try to play with at least one of our wide players inverted so we at least have a different type of threat. Whether that is Krancjar/Modric on the left wing or VdV/GDS on the right I think that something needs to be done as having 2 players staying wide and only going on the outside 9 times out of 10 is really limiting our scoring options.

 

[Sanj]

I actually agree with Jaispur in that i think VDV is the problem.
Actually let me re-phrase that - fitting VDV into our team is the problem.

Last season we attacked teams with 2 up top and created more space for the midfield. Presently we cannot get VDV involved in teh games and he is also taking up the spaces that we would push modders into.
We are creating plenty of crosses from teh wings but generally only have 1 striker attacking the box.

We need to find a way of accomodating VDV into our team, ideally playing a 4-4-2 system and trying to make the most of the crosses we do get into the box from both wings - a major facet or our play last season.

 

[mike_l]

Agree completely with all of this, the goal VdV scored against Inter is what we're talking about, that type of football in and around the oppositions box has just been to few and far between.

We are more or less just playing a percentage game at the moment, get the ball out wide to mostly Bale and occasionally Lennon, get a cross in and hope for a Crouch knockdown for VdV. If VdV wasn't there it would be get the cross in and hope for a Crouch goal or something from Pav/Keane.

Imo we are struggling because we just have an over-reliance on this type of play. There are only so many goals playing like this will get you each game, have we scored more than 2 goals in any one league game so far this season? Actually think that playing 2 left footed players at LB//LW and 2 right footed players at RB/RW isn't helping too much either. I know we played like this V Arse/Chelsk/Man C last year but if you think back to those games the goals we scored didn't really come through great team play, mostly individual efforts apart from the Bale goal against Arsenal.

We don't really have anybody coming in from wide and playing little one-twos around the box or slipping others players in on goal. It's very much get it wide and get the cross in.

As much as people may disagree but think we should really try to play with at least one of our wide players inverted so we at least have a different type of threat. Whether that is Krancjar/Modric on the left wing or VdV/GDS on the right I think that something needs to be done as having 2 players staying wide and only going on the outside 9 times out of 10 is really limiting our scoring options.

Which is so frustrating because the players that we have are capable of so much more. Dare I say that I reckon Arsene Wenger would have our squad challenging for the title. Not a criticism of Redknapp btw.

I actually agree with Jaispur in that i think VDV is the problem.
Actually let me re-phrase that - fitting VDV into our team is the problem.

Last season we attacked teams with 2 up top and created more space for the midfield. Presently we cannot get VDV involved in teh games and he is also taking up the spaces that we would push modders into.
We are creating plenty of crosses from teh wings but generally only have 1 striker attacking the box.

We need to find a way of accomodating VDV into our team, ideally playing a 4-4-2 system and trying to make the most of the crosses we do get into the box from both wings - a major facet or our play last season.

Exactly my opinion, unfortunately somewhere along the way one of our start midfielders will have to miss out, most likely by dropping Lennon nd using VDV from the right a la Modric from the left in previous seasons, or maybe shifting Bale to LB and shuffling the midfield round a bit (much as that would pain the Bale is a winger and simply cannot be utilised effectively from elsewhere brigade).

 

[Misfit]

Say Lennon is dropped and we go with VDV starting on the right..not something I'm against but he'd have to go roaming. Why waste him out wide. Might as well just drop VDV and play Lennon out wide.

So my question is - does Hudd have the engine to be the anchor but also go out wide and help plug the right hand side when VDV goes AWOL in-field and leaves gaps out wide?

Or would we end up sacrificing both Lennon and Hudd and playing Wilson or Sandro in midfield to do a covering job in both the middle of the pitch and the RHS when needed? Would that change the team too much. I'm not sure. We'd lose something but we might gain more out of it.

 

[mike_l]

Say Lennon is dropped and we go with VDV starting on the right..not something I'm against but he'd have to go roaming. Why waste him out wide. Might as well just drop VDV and play Lennon out wide.

So my question is - does Hudd have the engine to be the anchor but also go out wide and help plug the right hand side when VDV goes AWOL in-field and leaves gaps out wide?

Or would we end up sacrificing both Lennon and Hudd and playing Wilson or Sandro in midfield to do a covering job in both the middle of the pitch and the RHS when needed? Would that change the team too much. I'm not sure. We'd lose something but we might gain more out of it.

It's tough to say, fortunately that's Redknapps job to figure out. Providing he does work on it rather than just keep trying something that isn't working. He has already made reference recently to the difficulty of fitting VDV into the line-up, but that it is a great problem to have.

Personally I think I would rather shift Bale back to LB, I know this is sacrilage to some but it would counter the problem of teams doubling up on him. The problem is then working out a functioning midfield four with Hudd, Modric, Lennon and VDV. Especially as using such attacking fullbacks usually requires 2 holding midfielders.

Unfortunately, whilst our midfield appears to be our biggest strength, it is actually quite unbalanced.